Irritation / Technique / Razor Sharpness

Hello Everyone,

I've really enjoyed reading these forums. I recently decided to try straight shaving. I took a chance and decided to purchase a Gold Dollar 66 on Ebay. I am aware that this is the last thing I should have done being new at this hobby, but I had a few reasons for doing so. First, I was well aware that I will probably do some damage to the blade while learning to shave and strop. I'd like to buy a brand new razor soon, but not before I learn how not to break it. Second, I chose an EBay seller that personally hones and prepares the razors. EBay feedback seemed to concur that his razors were shave ready.

I've been doing this a week, and I have been enjoying it. Passes WTG and XTG have been doing ok. I have attempted ATG passes the last few days, and have some mild irritation. The first day I tried it I experienced the best shave of my life. I had no irritation, and a really enjoyable shave by my standards. The following few days, I experienced some mild irritation and discontinued ATG passes.

I am sure that my technique is the largest part of the problem. I've tried to keep my passes less than 20 degrees ATG with no pressure. It seems, though, that I am having trouble going ATG without encouraging the blade along. I would think that I am missing some technique that should allow the blade to glide more freely. In addition, I wonder if some amount of dullness might be contributing to my issue. I attempted a hanging hair test and I can hear the blade sing quite a bit before it cuts the hair (in some cases it does not).

What thoughts might anyone have in relation to my technique and equipment? I realize a better razor would be best for a beginner, but I'd really like to learn on something inexpensive then move on to something better once I am sure I won't damage it.

Thanks,
Andy

Sounds like you are off to a reasonable start in my opinion. Off the top of my head I would guess a combination of pressure and angle would be the most likely culprit. Of course you are already stating that..... Hmm, have you tried an alum block after your shave? It will give you some great feed back if you are using to much pressure and it's cheap. You may also want to do a WTG, XTG, XTG(from other side) and see if that knocks it down more. You may not even NEED an ATG pass except on those special occasions you want to be uber smooth.

I have no doubt more people will be chiming in soon. Best of luck and let us know what works for you.

Good thought on the Alum block. I have not tried one yet but just looked it up. Also, that suggestion reminds me of something else that might reveal a technique issue. My skin is kind of dry and appears to have some small flakes if viewed closely enough. Angle maybe?

Welcome to SRP. Everyone's skin/whiskers are different, and then there is the variable of the razor, whether it is pro honed ...... your technique, or the lack. I know some experienced shavers who cannot comfortably go ATG. An old shaving book from the turn of the 19th century recommended only doing two WTG passes if ATG irritated the skin. You might try that. I've had razors that were sharp but harsh, rather than sharp and smooth, that could have something to do with it.

If a razor isn't sharp/smooth there is a tendency for the inexperienced to make up for the lack with pressure. That always leads to irritation. The experienced shaver will not continue with the dull, or harsh razor, but will correct the razor before going on. Then there is prep, lathering, especially skin stretching ...... so many variables. :shrug:

Another thing you could try is lowering your angle on the blade so the spine is just about touching your face going ATG. Good luck.

Bob

+1 on using a alum block when starting it does make a huge difference with razor burn,
I personally would reframe from ATG also for a bit longer and ensure the lather is wet and not drying out and don't shave over dry skin,
Then also pressure and angles are the usual culprits.
Keep with it

Sorry this is a long read just trying to help a new guy out.

I have never used a GD so I can't speak to their issues or potential. I know there are people who buy them in bulk and correct the issues present and then resell them. I have heard that they have decent steel so as long as the seller or buyer has fixed any geometry issues present then it "should" be a good razor.

It really depends on you. For example, I have not the coarsest of beards but not the thinnest but the skin on my face is sensitive to shaving. I have always hated shaving but alas I am in upper management and the well dressed man fairs better then the unkempt and also my wife doesn't like too much scruff. This is one reason why I switched to straights because I get way less irritation then with a DE or cartridge. However even with my best straight honed perfectly on my finest stones I can sometimes get irritation if my prep wasn't right or my lather not perfect. I have found some tricks here and there to help but it never goes fully away. One trick that has helped immensely is with my prep. I wash my face first with a face wash containing salicylic acid. I feel this gets rid of most of the oils and allows the whiskers to absorb as much water as possible.


To me it sounds like maybe your stropping technique might need a little work. You said the first shave was great but the second not so much. Did you strop before the second one and not before the first one. You said your keeping your razor at a 20 degree angle. That is good for a WTG pass. However, a XTG and ATG pass should be shallower. On ATG's I almost am touching my skin with the spine.

Regardless of what happens don't be discouraged. As you said you are not starting with the best razor or even one recommended on the safe to buy list. So your kinda making due with something that is being forced to do its purpose. Before you go out and buy a new razor though check out the classifieds here because 1) you are supporting fellow members and 2) you will be ensured a shave ready razor of good quality and reputation unless otherwise noted. I have never seen a razor that was being sold on the classifieds that wasn't shave ready and I have never seen a GD either. Also you can get great vintage razors for the price of a GD. I suggest maybe try a Genco or Geneva Cutlery Co. Same company they just changed their name at same point, the latter being the earlier. They are great american razors that are taken for granted and sold quite cheaply. I got one that was never used for 15 bucks. I have several genco's and never got a bad one except for a one with some weird hone wear and even then its better than most other razors just takes some ingenuity when honing.

As JimmyHAD has said, there are MANY variables. It could be any of them. When I had issues when beginning(different than yours, but still issues) I kept the lather and razor the same and only change ONE thing each shave. It gave me a way to zero in on the problem. If that didn't work, I changed the lather, but kept everything else the same, AND if that didn't work I changed the razor....

I hope you get my drift which is there is no magic bullet.

FWIW, I think you also need to give some thought to whether you really need ATG or just want it and whether BBS is a reasonable expectation for your face. I've been shaving for more than 50 years, and I have a very rough beard. I have never been able to go ATG with any razor of any type....my face doesn't like it. When shaving with a SR I try all kinds of angles/passes and am very successful at getting a DFS everywhere, every time. Sometimes afterwards I rub some section of my face and think I could have tried something a little different to get "perfection". Then when I shave with a DE (usually because I don't have time or concentration for the SR shave) I realize my SR shave, overall, was better and maybe I'm setting an unreasonable expectation for my SR shaves. Just something to think about, especially while you're early in the SR journey. Then there's the Gold Dollar thing...I won't go there.

Thanks for all of the great replies. I will try adding an alum block and will also reduce my angle greatly on XTG passes while eliminating ATG passes for now. Hopefully that will help.

I did not realize that there were so many shave ready vintage razors available. I'll have to take a look and see if I can find something that can eliminate the razor variable. Like I said, I'll fully admit there are a number of technique issues. I just wanted something inexpensive to take the abuse of my less than perfect technique. Restored razors from members might be a better option, though, as I'll at least know it came from someone interested in helping someone start out.

Regardless, it's been enjoyable learning this. While this has caused some skin burning / irritation, it is still preferable to me than cartridge shaving. I've lived with ingrown hairs on my neck ever since I started shaving. Since I've started into this, I don't have a single one. I just need to continue working on my technique and I'm sure things will improve!

Thanks,
Andy

Sounds like you are doing really well to me. ATG is generally a challenge, for beginner or experienced. I think shaving daily is too aggressive for a beginner, absent the general thrill of daily straight shaving, give your face a break now and then. Reconsider the ATG pass and try using an across the grain stroke. Don't do this to avoid irritation, but rather, to increase your learning curve.

The timing of the edges degradation matches well with someone learning to strop, but not doing it very effectively. Use light pressure, but use enough to create a slight draw. Consider slowing down and doubling the number of passes you're currently doing. Keep the razor off angle a bit, not perpendicular to the strop. At this point, with so many shaves under your belt I'd recommend stropping in linen 50 passes (if you have it) followed by 200 passes with a touch of pressure on leather. Return to about 60 passes after that. Some corrective stropping could help. Go slow and use a methodical, rhythmical stroke. Let the strop friction do all the work.

If you can't get a fantastic shave with the grain, you need more practice. Going against the grain is cheating, at the expense of some very visible skin. Shaving with a straight razor is a close-in, gentle, highly focused art. Unlike a hoe-type modern blade where you swipe mindlessly around your face, a straight requires more thoughtful whisker examination. Use no pressure when shaving. If the whiskers don't get cut instantly, the razor is dull. Too dull for safe shaving.

You should see/find the specific whiskers you intend to shave, evaluate the best pass direction, identify from where you want to stretch the skin, then shave the whiskers as if you will shave them without scraping along the skin. The razor will touch the skin of course, but you should be following a mantra that accepts that there isn't a good reason to scrape along the skin. It's ineffective and counter-productive to a high-quality shave. You are shaving whiskers, NOT skin.

A Gold dollar razor is okay. It's quality will hold you back soon though. Unfortunately, very high-quality steel is helpful for high-quality shaves.

Thanks for the advice. I will attempt some more in-depth stropping. As mentioned before it is also possible that a sub par stropping technique could have caused some issues. I'll keep you guys up to date!

Update:

Per the advice I slowed down a lot. I took a lot more time stropping, did some extra stropping to hopefully work out any issues I caused, built a better lather, and took a hot shower. Also, I only did a WTG and XTG pass. There was no irritation whatsoever. The shave is a CCS.

I am used to a little more closeness from my cartridge shaver, but it also gave me awful tugging, pain, and ingrown hairs. This shave was purely enjoyable with no pain. I haven't had that in years. I am sure closeness will come with more experience. I really appreciate the advice. Shaving is much more fun and comfortable with a straight as I learn the technique. I'm really glad I tried this.

Thanks again!
Andy

Andy,
As time goes by your technique will improve without even realizing it. Keep up the good work.

Bit late but Hi and welcome. Just remember comfort over closeness to start. The shaves will get closer as you go.

Another update:

I spent a week doing no ATG. Even though I know I should wait longer and get more experience, I didn't :-) ... but I actually ended up with another great shave. It was somewhere between a DFS and a BBS.

I think all of the advice offered on this thread was very helpful in improving my technique. Also, I think a week off was a help too. For now, I think I can enjoy an ATG shave once in a rare while. Once I get more experience, maybe I can do it more. For now, though, this is very encouraging!

Just did a one pass shave this morning with about three weeks of straight experience, and honestly, was better than a one-pass shave with a cartridge . . . :) Didn't have time for the full experience, but technique is improving enough that I have a decent shave with 5 minutes of work . . . I'll take it.

Keep heading on it and you'll get better every day!