Tugging on first SR shave

Hi Folks... i am new to this form and new to SR shaving. After 4 years of DE shaving, i decided to give SR a try. I ordered a new DOVO special 5/8 that was pre-sharpend and shave ready. I also got a 2" Illinois strop. I tested the razor when i received it and it seems really sharp - can slice through copier paper with great easy. I stropped the razor slowly for about 30 times on the leather and tested again on the paper and it was still super sharp. after watching some videos, i took a shower, lathered up with GMT cream, and gave the razor a try on my 4 day old beard. Overall, it was a decent shaving experience; i did not cut myself and i found myself getting comfortable with the razor over time... i was only going to do the cheeks as per Lynn's video, but i went for the full monty. i did two passes just down my face (which is with the grain in some areas and agains the grain in others... didn't want to get creative with the motions at this time).
On the first pass, i experience a lot of tugging and pulling. It took a while to shave the hair. things improved on the second pass, but that is because by then, there wasn't that much hair to tug on. For the experienced out there - what usually causes tugging ?
Was i shaving too slow?
Is my angle off ? [and what kind of angles cause tugging]
Is it a first time thing ?
Is it the 4 day old beard ?
Could it be that my save-ready razor is not shave ready?

Finally, any tips on stropping after the shave...

Thanks for your help!

Welcome tenurepro to the best, most helpful corner of the internet, and the nerve-center of the straight razor universe!

I will say a few brief things: in answer to your questions, the answers are:

No. you can't go too slow

Maybe. Angle matters a lot, and it takes time and practice.

Yes. it is a first time thing, keep at it and watch some videos.

Maybe. Usually a good shave ready razor will work on 1 day as well as 4 day the same.

Absolutely. I am not sure where you got your razor, but I would suggest sending it out for honing.


And finally - STOP CUTTING THINGS WITH YOUR RAZOR. Its not a bloody utility knife. If it was shave ready, there is a VERY good chance that wrecked it and it needs to be honed.

All the best and hang in there!

Just curious where you bought the razor from as some places say the Dovo comes pre sharpened from the factory and is shave ready which may or may not be the case. It depends on how good a job the factory did. That is different from a retailer who will hone a new razor to shave ready before sending it out.

Testing a razor by cutting paper with it damages the edge by dulling it. If your razor was shave ready you should use it first without stropping it. Then you know what a good edge feels like and if it does not feel as sharp after stropping it before the second use you know your stropping is off and dulling the blade.

You can get tugging from a dull blade, improper angle, poor lather or any combination of those. Hard to narrow it down.

Bob

What those other folks said, especially about cutting paper. It ruins the edge. Even good knives which are much more "rugged" are dulled by cutting paper. That's why box cutters have replaceable blades.

Thanks Joel...
wow, didn't know paper could be that bad. i've usually sharpen my german knifes with a water stone and test their sharpness by cutting paper... will stop cutting things (other than whiskers) with razor. if paper damaged the blade, do you think stropping would get it back in shape, or should i get my 8000 grit norton out?
perhaps i should shave a few more times then sharpen if tugging doesn't go away.

Also, curious, which is more likely to cause tugging <20 angles or >30?

cheers!

Got the razor from fendrihan in Canada. They offer the razor with factory edge, but they also sell it after it has been honed (in house?), which is what i supposedly got.
hmmm, never considered poor lather... now that i think about it, i was a bit too excited to test the razor that i probably spent too much time watching youtube videos and let the lather dry up on my face a bit. perhaps thats it

noted! no more cutting papers with DOVO... but how do i test if it sharp enough ?

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Originally Posted by tenurepro

noted! no more cutting papers with DOVO... but how do i test if it sharp enough ?

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OK, seems you did get a shave ready razor which should not be stropped before first use. The only real test of shave readiness is the shave itself. Try a gap/space of 1 to 2 spine widths between your face and the razor's spine and adjust as needed. You need to experiment a bit to see what works for you. Good luck on your next shave.

Bob

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Originally Posted by tenurepro

noted! no more cutting papers with DOVO... but how do i test if it sharp enough ?

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Usually sharpness tests are pretty simple. First off the goal is to cut something that is not destructive to the edge. A good one is arm hair. I have very short and fine arm hair so for me it is if it cuts my arm hair without touching the skin but very very close. People with more and coarser arm hair arm more likely to say it cut mid shaft, also referred to as tree topping. However this will just tell you if it is worthy of a test shave. Shaving is the ultimate test of shave ready. I think when you order it pre honed you should have faith that it is sharp enough to shave with. Shave ready should also mean out of the box and shave. No stropping and no sharpness tests. Hopefully it is all good. I think it helps to watch a few shave videos. There are a couple good ones in the library.
Shaving videos - Straight Razor Place Library

Hi,
I would recommend you spend a bit of time using our library as well as the beginners section threads, a lot of your current and future questions can be at least partially answered by doing so.
Testing a razor for sharpness should not be done using paper, trees, small family cars, aliens etc all of these will blunt your razor.
There are a few tests recommend to guage how close to shave ready a razor is but ultimately shaving with it will tell you.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Usually sharpness tests are pretty simple. First off the goal is to cut something that is not destructive to the edge. A good one is arm hair. I have very short and fine arm hair so for me it is if it cuts my arm hair without touching the skin but very very close. People with more and coarser arm hair arm more likely to say it cut mid shaft, also referred to as tree topping. However this will just tell you if it is worthy of a test shave. Shaving is the ultimate test of shave ready. I think when you order it pre honed you should have faith that it is sharp enough to shave with. Shave ready should also mean out of the box and shave. No stropping and no sharpness tests. Hopefully it is all good. I think it helps to watch a few shave videos. There are a couple good ones in the library.
Shaving videos - Straight Razor Place Library

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Thanks... i tried tree topping and it seems to work (but not without a bit of a 'catching' feeling)... will watch the videos and try again tomorrow
Thanks all... this forum is very helpful!
Cheers!

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Originally Posted by edhewitt

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Testing a razor for sharpness should not be done using paper, trees, small family cars, aliens etc all of these will blunt your razor.

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will remember that next time i encounter an alien in a civic :)

Ok, about to try again now... but i wanted to first ask... what does a good sharp blade feel like ? hard to get that from a video... does it feel like a DE going down your face? is it a hot knife through butter kinda of feeling, or do you experience the resistance from the whiskers as you cut it ? is a little bit of grip or tugging expected?

Thanks - learning a lot here!

Well that is a tough one to answer because we all have slightly different whiskers and skin and face shapes. For me it depends on which part of my face. My whiskers lay quite flat against my skin, so a with the grain stroke in most sots is quite smooth, as I come against the grain I have to lay the blade quite close to my skin so it isn't pulled into my skin. I have some spots that are best done with a buffing stroke, like my chin, and the outer edges of my mustache. I can get away with longer strokes on the upper part of my neck, but by my windpipe it is more of a scything stroke. The resistance is increased in areas that I use the buffing stroke. I would not call it tugging. Tugging is pulling whiskers resistance is where the slick cutting action is somewhat weighed down and perhaps an area of caution. I hope it makes sense.

Yup… you stuffed a shave ready edge.

Most folks do not understand just how fragile a razor edge is.

Before you do anything else, get some magnification, you can buy a 60X lighted loupe for 2-3 dollars.

Look at the edge under magnification from the side, looking for very small chips on the edge. Now look down on the edge, straight down. Any shinny spots are damage to the edge.

The results from these test will determine you course of action.

Either way find a local mentor to get the edge back to shave ready, learn the finer points of shaving and maintenance.

Unfortunately you need to strop to maintain your razor, and you need to strop you razor to learn to strop.

Translation, do not worry, this is all normal. You need to learn to strop, find a mentor.

Welcome to the forum, there are weeks of reading material here, for you.

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Originally Posted by RezDog

Well that is a tough one to answer because we all have slightly different whiskers and skin and face shapes. For me it depends on which part of my face. My whiskers lay quite flat against my skin, so a with the grain stroke in most sots is quite smooth, as I come against the grain I have to lay the blade quite close to my skin so it isn't pulled into my skin. I have some spots that are best done with a buffing stroke, like my chin, and the outer edges of my mustache. I can get away with longer strokes on the upper part of my neck, but by my windpipe it is more of a scything stroke. The resistance is increased in areas that I use the buffing stroke. I would not call it tugging. Tugging is pulling whiskers resistance is where the slick cutting action is somewhat weighed down and perhaps an area of caution. I hope it makes sense.

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That roughly sums up the answer i would give, and yes describing sharp is pretty close to impossible, lime describing the taste of orange juice to someone who has only ever drunk water and eaten rice :)

There are preliminary non-destructive test, Thumb Pad Test, Arm Hair Test, and Visual test.

TPT takes time to learn,

AHT is not always conclusive many factor are involved and

Visual Magnification, also takes experience to learn what to look for, but is fairly conclusive.

The only real test and the definitive test is… the shave. It will shave or it won’t.

So the real answer is, you do all three… then shave.

Now, you just need to learn to shave and maintain your razor.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Before you do anything else, get some magnification, you can buy a 60X lighted loupe for 2-3 dollars.
Look at the edge under magnification from the side, looking for very small chips on the edge. Now look down on the edge, straight down. Any shinny spots are damage to the edge.

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Excellent Advice … thanks. I have a microscope and i was able to take these pics at 45X with my iPhone over the scope ocular… to me, the blade looks pretty sharp. although i did find a few little 'micro pits' on the blade (see red arrows)… looking at the blade head-on, i found no evidence of rolling or damage. Does it look sharp to you ?

Attachment 182682Attachment 182683

perhaps the tugging is simply an angle or lather issue… i didn't shave with it last night because i got some razor burn from the first time… will attempt another try tomorrow morning.

The edge does look straightish, but the best test is to look straight down on the edge.

When you look at the side, you are looking for chips. When you look straight down on the edge you are looking for chips and for a set bevel set. Any defect in the edge will show up as shinny reflection, chip, rolled edge or the bevels are not meeting.

If it is not too bad, proper stropping on linen and leather and or paste, Diamond or Chrome Oxide may revive it.

Excessive shaving angle is common for the novice, try to keep the spine about 2 spine widths from the skin, so you are cutting not scraping the hairs from the face. Small chip as you found and microchips will also cause razor burn. The edge is serrated not straight and the chip points are micro cutting your skin, razor burn.

Here is a video on checking the edge, here.