Is over stropping possible?

Is over stropping possible?

Practice makes perfect they say. :p

I practice a lot. I think I'm getting the stropping technique down finally (almost a year now). I can do several stroppings in a day & evening of over 100 strokes or more mostly with paddle (freedom of movement). I practice with a couple different razors on couple different paddles and strops.

I would think that the quality of the shave would tell the tell which seems to be Ok so far. A little degradation in shave quality but not so much I won't try it again. Seems one or two got better after not being properly stropped while on the learning curve. I do have a ways to go with my shaving technique though. The chin and nose are still a major chore.

I am coming up on one year for my first razor to be properly honed for a second time. I'm looking forward to see if there is a big difference. It will gage how I'm doing.

So if one is stropping properly, no paste/spray just leather, can one over strop and or damage their razor? .

I don't have an answer, because I would love to know the answer too! From my use stropping only seems to help, but my skin is not sensitive to it is harder for me to tell.

I have about as much experience as you, but I did read from more experienced shavers in other threads that if you are stropping properly, there is no maximum amount. I've read from very experienced shavers doing upwards of 200 laps... The danger is that if your technique is incorrect, then more stropping can either increase the amount of damage, or increase the odds of incurring some damage to the blade or the strop.

Other users with more experience will probably also chime in, and I would like to expand the original question to include the pasted strops. Can a wire-edge be created with a pasted strop in the same way as over-honing?

I've been told that over stropping does not cause blindness. If you read some of the threads you will find shavers that routinely strop up to 200 laps, or so, before they are satisfied. Some seem to accomplish the desired effect in 50 to 60 laps. It's either OCD or various levels of stropping ability. As we say YMMV before you find your comfortable level.

With good technique, over-stopping is very, very unlikely.

I've gone up to 120 a few times, I'm usually at 50-60. I've never noticed any improvement over 100 laps.

I think it really depends on the blade. Given very good technique I doubt whether you could ever over strop, I do believe you can under strop. For me if the blade is very straight 100 on leather is my #,a smiling wedge may take 120, a big heavy smiler just off the hones may take more to get the whole edge evenly.
The risk is as you stop continuously and tire the threat of making a bad stroke due to fatigued is increased and I know from experience that it only takes a small mistake to set the edge back.

In my eyes over stropping is possible, but only by making a rounded edge, i never had the effect after the Stropping that the Razor become more aggressiv than before or that the Razor got a fine line.
It depends on the Steel of the Razor, the pressure, the kind of Leather and the Grind of the Razor and the Mix of all this Factors to round an edge.

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Originally Posted by FranfC

>>>snip The risk is as you stop continuously and tire the threat of making a bad stroke due to fatigued is increased and I know from experience that it only takes a small mistake to set the edge back.

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Being wore out and arthritic in starting SR shaving this was a concern and I did make lots of mistakes. Concentration and focus needed a bit of work too. LOL!! Now I'm not doing too bad. I do the usual 20/60 linen/leather before and 10/20 after. The long practice sessions have helped me develop that feel and sound when everything seems just right.

I'm still perfecting my shaving technique and do not want to needless butcher my self in those couple areas that are taking so long to get down. I have very sensitive wrinkled skin and a coarse beard.

Great feedback everyone.

Only if you make a rounded edge. I've seen people strop 40-60 times. I've seen some strop 100 times & it didn't hurt.

Funny but 70 year old (at the time) barber, doing it 50 years, told me very seriously, with somber face, "You can overstrop a razor." That was in 1984 or so. I played around with straights for a time back then but gave up shaving with them and only collected stub tails. Twenty five years later I began seriously pursuing this sport and found that Frank was apparently in error.

I've never been a marathon stropper. For a time I routinely did 50/50 on linen and leather. Now I'm down to 30/30 and 20 leather only following the shave. That said, I've seen guys enthusiastic about stropping do a progression from the cloth component to latigo, to horsehide ....... or whatever ..... of hundreds of round trips. They seem to feel this enhances their shaves, and they probably have forearms like Popeye.

I know of one celebrated honemeister who has begun to have repetitive stress problems in hands, elbows, and wrists from overuse, and he is not a marathon stropper as the aforementioned guys. Anyway ....... if you really want to know if you can overstrop a razor it is really simple AFAIC. Take a couple of different families of razors, Solingen, Sheffield, USA. Full hollow, quarter hollow and wedge.

Get a microscope and go to town on your strops. Examine the edges every 50 - 100 round trips. Are they deteriorating visibly ? Micro chipping, or wearing in some visible manner ? I would think for the average amount that we strop razors, assuming good technique, there is no perceptible wear, but I'm not sure. :thinking:

I need to get a stronger magnifier. I do not see very well any more. My 40x and 100x are not showing me what I need to see. I got a 400x USB but it is so grainy. I'll work on my USB setup. I've seen photos from USB magnifiers here way clearer than what I'm getting.

Thanks again for your replies. :)

I think practically speaking the answer would be no. But as far as I know no one has ever taken a razor out to say 1000, 2000 laps and lived to tell the tale. Probably the only way to do tests to failure would be to make a stropping machine of some kind.

But it really is hard to see how you could ruin an edge with proper stropping - it's not like you are bending the metal back and forth when you strop, for example, and causing fatigue.

James.

I'll improve my magnified viewing and post if I find something.

I don't think I'll get up to thousands of laps but I'm just now comfortably getting up to couple hundred laps. I've had both shoulders rebuilt a couple times and I have found stropping is good for them. I'm starting to strop with my left hand to help balance and increase coordination for left handed shaving. My primary concern is heat build up. I know burnishing cue sticks with leather can get them too hot and warp the wood. Been there done that. LOL!

I agree with Jimbo
I don't think you can ruin an edge, even if you did 200 or more laps on it! Once it achieves the sharpest it can get, it can't get any better or worse by stropping in the correct way!

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Originally Posted by jmercer

I'll improve my magnified viewing and post if I find something.

I don't think I'll get up to thousands of laps but I'm just now comfortably getting up to couple hundred laps. I've had both shoulders rebuilt a couple times and I have found stropping is good for them. I'm starting to strop with my left hand to help balance and increase coordination for left handed shaving. My primary concern is heat build up. I know burnishing cue sticks with leather can get them too hot and warp the wood. Been there done that. LOL!

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There was talk about that on SRP maybe 5 years ago. I took full hollows and did 50 linen, 50 leather, and held the edge to the side of my face ........ I didn't feel any warmth whatsoever. IIRC a piece of high carbon has to be in the 400 + degree range before there is any risk of compromising the temper.

In my opinion, you can't really "over strop" or in other words cause damage to the razor from too much stropping. But I think at a certain point you're not making it any better. When the edge comes to a point, it's not going to get much sharper.

I don't see how overstropping (meaning damaging to the edge) could happen, given that leather is very much softer than the razor steel. Never went above a 100 or so passes though. Even though I really really like stropping.

I know experiments have been done with stropping daily using a pasted strop and after quite a while no adverse effects were found to the edge. So given that I can't see where with correct technique stropping on leather would cause an issue. Of course at some point returns would deminish meaning you are stropping for enjoyment only

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Originally Posted by Jimbo

I think practically speaking the answer would be no. But as far as I know no one has ever taken a razor out to say 1000, 2000 laps and lived to tell the tale. Probably the only way to do tests to failure would be to make a stropping machine of some kind.

But it really is hard to see how you could ruin an edge with proper stropping - it's not like you are bending the metal back and forth when you strop, for example, and causing fatigue.

James.

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+1... I agree with James. I routinely will take a blade that feels a tad 'tuggy' after multiple shaves, and my first go-to action is to strop it on leather about 150-200 laps. It always seems to work for me, as far as bringing back the edge. If not the blade will go back to the hones.

I did an experiment once where I didn't use my Robert Williams razor for 10 days, yet I stropped 200 laps on it everyone of those 10 days. I shaved with it on the 11th day and it shaved fine, however the razor was no sharper than it was under my usual stropping regimen, which is 60 laps prior to shaving. So I would say that you can't overhone a razor unless maybe you were devoting just an insane amount of time trying to.

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Originally Posted by Wayne1963

I did an experiment once where I didn't use my Robert Williams razor for 10 days, yet I stropped 200 laps on it everyone of those 10 days. I shaved with it on the 11th day and it shaved fine, however the razor was no sharper than it was under my usual stropping regimen, which is 60 laps prior to shaving. So I would say that you can't overhone a razor unless maybe you were devoting just an insane amount of time trying to.

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Yeah, like a psychotic person stropping over & over & over & over & over & over!!!!

I routinely do 25 on linen and 75 to 100 on leather before each shave. The razor tells me when enough is enough. The 1 part of the equation I never hear is , how long your lap is. Do the math and you will see 30 long laps maybe another guys 50 or 60 short ones. And what is over stropping? I would say when you have gone past doing anything beneficial to the edge. So yes you can over strop but it won't hurt anything. Any damage you do would be from bad technique.

I have said many times " over stropping is impossible."" I say this to guys who only do 20 laps and can't figure out why their razor doesn't stay sharp :<0)
To someone searching for the perfect amount of laps I would say " Pay attention to how the razor feels going across the leather." Same as with honing, You should be able to feel it smooth out. You should learn to feel when you have made a perfect lap. I try to finish when I feel 10 perfect laps. hence the 75 to 100 sometimes more. Some days you got it , some you don't.

Humbly after close inspection I have come to the conclusion i have micro chipped all my razors and have packaged them for shipping tomorrow to be honed.

I'm anxious to see how my technique has improvement with a proper honed razor. It's been about a year now.