First hone flattening

Well... my first hone, bought November 2014, was a Norton 4k/8k combo and as all beginners I have probably mistreated it a little in its first few weeks of life. It is a very nice stone from my perspective and I have used it to successfully turn two non-cutting blades into serviceable and useable shaving implements.

I thought I would step into the breach and flatten my stone. Unless someone randomly donates a D8C my way I'm stuck using the flat surface and sandpaper method. Purchasing 10 sheets of 400 grit wet and dry for a festive 3 Great British Pounds, I wetted the surface, made sure my paper was flat and proceeded to move the stone around. As quite a techy guy I have actually lapped copper and aluminium CPU and GPU heatsinks before so I am familiar with the principle of letting the weight of the heatsink (waterstone) do the work as I move it around the sandpaper.

Contrary to my belief, the stone moved around very nicely and did not take very long to lap. The grid lines I applied slowly faded to nothing and both sides looked (personally) better than the condition I received the stone in. All in all it took me maybe 60 minutes from the thought of doing it to getting the flat surface + water, draw my lines, do the business and clean up.

Most proud of my first flattening attempt but most disappointed that I don't really have anything to use on it quite yet as both of my blades are in 'stropping only' maintenance group at the moment.

Apologies for taking up some forum space but I thought I would share the feeling of success whilst it was still fresh in my heart.

To end, what kind of grit paper would I be looking to use to keep a c12k flat? I understand that it is a very, very hard stone and sandpapering flat would probably be considered a day job but I am quite curious as my c12k has a side which is super flat and another which needs TLC and would serve as a good practice platform.

The 400 will work for the Chinese hone, but it obviously will take longer than a more coarse grit.

Did you remember to chamfer the long sides of the Norton?

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Originally Posted by Utopian

The 400 will work for the Chinese hone, but it obviously will take longer than a more coarse grit.

Did you remember to chamfer the long sides of the Norton?

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Excellent! I do not go back to work until the 2nd so I have a project :)

Yes, chamfering of the sides was done too.

What the BLOODY hell are you talking about with the 'apologies for taking up forum space' thing? What do you think it's here for? ;)

I think the great think about this forum is the interaction, it's not just some library where people will crossly tell you 'shoosh, I'm reading!'

It's great your hone lapping went well. What did you use for a flat surface? Glass table tops work really well...

Carl

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Originally Posted by carlmaloschneider

What the BLOODY hell are you talking about with the 'apologies for taking up forum space' thing? What do you think it's here for? ;)

I think the great think about this forum is the interaction, it's not just some library where people will crossly tell you 'shoosh, I'm reading!'

It's great your hone lapping went well. What did you use for a flat surface? Glass table tops work really well...

Carl

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Plenty of forums are like that, with their own cliques and if you don't post what they expect you get the condescending responses and half hearted responses.

I used a sheet of glass and used a bit of tape to keep the sandpaper from moving and curling.

No need to tape the paper, the water will stick it to any flat surface. For the Chinese stone, you may have to go to 60 or 80 grit to get it flat.

Pick up a cookie sheet from the dollar store, it will contain the mess of water and slurry. Mark a grid with a sharpie, instead of pencil, lead will wash off in the first few laps on a hard smooth stone.

You really only need to do one side, loose Silicone Carbide works much faster than Wet and Dry to flatten, but paper will work, just slower. Use the floor and your body weight to flatten, spin the stone 180 frequently.

Once flat, polish on progressively higher grits, polishing goes fairly quickly, use the sharpie to mark new gridlines. I would go up to 1K to polish. Then burnish with hard flat carbon steel, kitchen knives work well on this stone.

If you flatten and burnish this stone, it will perform like a completely different stone, most are nice finishers.

I know my C12k took a brand new DMT to well broken in before I got it flat. Atleast with mine it was a tedious job that took longer than I care to admit. Atleast once you have the DMT you can use it on other stones and to keep the C12k flat. I found it will put a nice polish on it when it has been used quite a bit. There have been alot of things that I regret buying, but my DMT isn't one of them.

A Chinese stone or any novaculite will eat a DMT or most Diamond plates except the extra extra course 120 grit lapping plate.

Loose grit or Wet and Dry and save the plate, for soft stone lapping, slurring and maintenance re surfacing. When you do lap with a plate, do so under running water or in a pond of water.

80 grit loose silicone power will get you flat fairly quickly.

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

No need to tape the paper, the water will stick it to any flat surface. For the Chinese stone, you may have to go to 60 or 80 grit to get it flat.

Pick up a cookie sheet from the dollar store, it will contain the mess of water and slurry. Mark a grid with a sharpie, instead of pencil, lead will wash off in the first few laps on a hard smooth stone.

You really only need to do one side, loose Silicone Carbide works much faster than Wet and Dry to flatten, but paper will work, just slower. Use the floor and your body weight to flatten, spin the stone 180 frequently.

Once flat, polish on progressively higher grits, polishing goes fairly quickly, use the sharpie to mark new gridlines. I would go up to 1K to polish. Then burnish with hard flat carbon steel, kitchen knives work well on this stone.

If you flatten and burnish this stone, it will perform like a completely different stone, most are nice finishers.

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As soon as water went onto the paper it started to curl so the tape helped keep it in place and flat, and I'll locate a permanent marker to grid up with.

The chinese stone is flat on one side. I just tackled the other side... it's still scratched up on the ends after a lot of 400 grit work but the middle is so darn silky. I'll see if I can find some decent W&D at a store in the city when I'm back at work on Friday. Something like 60/80 to start, then 200, 400, 600 and maybe 800 then 1k?

As I am quite a messy person I think I'm best served with the paper method for now :)

So far I've found it to be an alright finisher, providing a nice edge after my Norton 8k... however I am still learning it and learning kamisori so we'll see how it goes.

Burnishing? What's that? *Goes to Google in the meantime*

I've also went for the 400/1200 double sided Eze-Lap diamond plate. Set me back £72 as opposed to £60-65 for the single sided DMC D8C. I have no intention of letting my diamond plate near the Chinese stone :)

Once you got the face as smooth as you can get it, run hard flat carbon steel on it with pressure. A wide chisel, or old carbon knife to further smooth out the face. You are looking for a glass smooth stone face. 2-300 or more hard pressure laps with a little soapy water or oil.

It is a 6-10k stone but burnished will finish like a much higher grit stone.

If it's any help, in the UK I find best place to get w&d is car part shops. At least in my area the fit chains have killed all the smaller guys who stocked anything that was slightly different to what they decide people want to buy.

Never heard of burnishing a stone but this stone has two sides so it won't hurt to experiment.

What kinds of oil are suitable?

Thanks for the tip on wet and dry. I got my last set of wet and dry from Wilkinsons. Clas Olson also has a decent selection but was over £1 per sheet when I checked the other week.

I forgot Wilkinson do the lower grit stuff. I do a lot of hand sanding for restorations and Wilkinson don't go high enough. I also find better quality stuff does not curl so much, 3m is pricey but you do get what you pay for with it.

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Originally Posted by monkeypuzzlebeefeater

I forgot Wilkinson do the lower grit stuff. I do a lot of hand sanding for restorations and Wilkinson don't go high enough. I also find better quality stuff does not curl so much, 3m is pricey but you do get what you pay for with it.

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My razors are in need of TLC. I've been meaning to get into cleaning them up but the restoration forum seems a bit lean on information about cleaning that doesn't involve machines.

I'd love to get into hand sanding. Any tips on where to start?

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Originally Posted by Elcs

I'd love to get into hand sanding. Any tips on where to start?

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There is plenty of advice on the forum but in the library there is a useful guide
Hand sanding a blade - Straight Razor Place Library

From experience I would say the best thing to do before undertaking any restoration is make sure restoration is what is actually needed. It's very easy to read a few guides or posts and fall into the trap of assuming knowledge (I know from bitter experience!) Firstly I assess what is actually needed, if there is rust is it brighter red meaning is still active or is it darker? If still active it needs to be stopped. Try gently scrapping with thumb nail, this might be all it needs. If not then a spray oil on a cloth is good, being a cyclist I use gt85 but something like wd40 is good. Remember oiled razors as slippery! If the rust is the darker kind that is not active then removing metal is the only option, this type of rust leaves a black staining (devils spit we call it) this way often leaves pitting underneath. Start b with a low grit wet and dry, I use 320, remove all the damage. Take your time. Go slow. Don't try to hurry onto higher grits, get rid of all the damage before progressing. I then go through each grit progression up to about 2400 when I switch to a polish, like t-cut metal polish.

This really is only my take on the very basic though. Probably the best approach would be to post pics of any razors that you want to work on, explain what tools you have available and take time to really review all the advice offered.

Hope this is of some help, feel free to pm me if you want me to elaborate on any points.

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Originally Posted by monkeypuzzlebeefeater

There is plenty of advice on the forum but in the library there is a useful guide
Hand sanding a blade - Straight Razor Place Library

From experience I would say the best thing to do before undertaking any restoration is make sure restoration is what is actually needed. It's very easy to read a few guides or posts and fall into the trap of assuming knowledge (I know from bitter experience!) Firstly I assess what is actually needed, if there is rust is it brighter red meaning is still active or is it darker? If still active it needs to be stopped. Try gently scrapping with thumb nail, this might be all it needs. If not then a spray oil on a cloth is good, being a cyclist I use gt85 but something like wd40 is good. Remember oiled razors as slippery! If the rust is the darker kind that is not active then removing metal is the only option, this type of rust leaves a black staining (devils spit we call it) this way often leaves pitting underneath. Start b with a low grit wet and dry, I use 320, remove all the damage. Take your time. Go slow. Don't try to hurry onto higher grits, get rid of all the damage before progressing. I then go through each grit progression up to about 2400 when I switch to a polish, like t-cut metal polish.

This really is only my take on the very basic though. Probably the best approach would be to post pics of any razors that you want to work on, explain what tools you have available and take time to really review all the advice offered.

Hope this is of some help, feel free to pm me if you want me to elaborate on any points.

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My blades, straights and kamisori, are all of the black kind of rust. I'll give it a WD-40 first just to see where that gets me then I'll assault it with the 400 W&D I have here until I grab some other stuff to work on it.

Found this set of wet and dry, 10 sheets taking me from 240 to 600, 1000, 1500 and up to 2000 for just over £6. At 60p a sheet it's not that cheap but it seems like a reasonable deal and has pretty much everything I need in one package as I've still got something like 6 sheets of 400 grit.

Time to sand my life away :)

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Originally Posted by Elcs

Time to sand my life away :)

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It gets addictive. :)

Got a selection of 240/600/1000/1500/2000 grit wet and dry from Amazon. Cost me £6.33 for 10 sheets (2 of each) which I didn't think was bad.

Started work on the Eye Witness but heck it's slow going at 240 grit. Got to be in it for the long haul.

I also flattened the smooth side of my Chinese hone, did the 240, 400, 600 and finished off with 1k. Probably took me 2 or 2 1/2 hours to do. I haven't burnished it yet as I am not sure I have found a suitable item to run over it so far. To my fingers it felt smoother after it's 240 grit run than it had done prior to today and now, 1k grit finish feels great.... if it wasn't sacrilege I'd dull my Azuma kamisori and re-hone, finishing on this stone.

Considering the change in the stone by looks and feel, I'm almost tempted to do the same to my Norton 4k/8k :P

Image below: