Very finicky skin - could a straight razor help?

Hi all!

So I've tried just about everything other than a straight razor or a laser. Every time I shave with a blade (either disposable or "Mach3" cartridge type) I get terrible ingrown hairs on my neck area. I've tried about every technique/pre-shave/post-shave/etc that I can find and nothing seems to help. For a couple years now, I've just been wearing a short beard (1/4"-1/2" more or less). My electric razor even leaves my face irritated (and doesn't cut all that well). My hair is like the bristles of a wire brush (cartridge razors are dull to the point of discomfort after one or two shaves). My face is moderately oily, but I generally don't have acne issues other than small blackheads.

Do any of you have similar issues? Could a properly prepared and employed straight razor save me a lot of discomfort and unsightly razor bumps? I don't have super fair skin, but it's fair enough that ingrown hairs/razor bumps are pretty unsightly.

Thanks!

Does your everything tried include a DE safety razor? That is an easy way to much better shaving with little expense.

Ah, sorry. I haven't actually tried a DE safety razor yet. How similar would they be to straight razors in such a situation? Cost isn't such a big issue - I just want to shave without my face being a disaster.

I don't have these problems but I have read posts where using a straight razor is much better. I seem to remember the theory being a straight does not pull on the base of the hair so much as to cut it or pull it out below the skin. Having use an electric I can imagine that very clearly :<0) There may be other reasons like using a brush and the inherent benefits of exfoliating the skin during prep and with using a straight.
I am sure the whole key to this is having a VERY sharp straight and properly maintaining the edge.

Other will come along with better/more advice I am sure.

Welcome to SRP and good luck solving you issue.

I would also say to try a DE first as a test to see if that will help. The learning curve is less steep with those and the cost is much less also.

You also did not say if you use canned goo for lather. A good soap and brush along with knowing how to use them goes along way to getting a comfortable shave.

Bob

Thanks guys! I might try out a DE and see how that goes.

I should also mention that I tried a replaceable-blade straight razor a few years ago and didn't get great results. I don't remember *how* the results were sub-par, but I believe that particular razor was meant more for cutting hair than shaving. I used a cheap boar brush and Williams soap if I remember correctly.

I'm also interested in straight shaving simply because the razor is a tool that you use over and over take care of - I'm not a huge fan of disposable things in general. If it tells you anything about my personality, I write with fountain pens for similar reasons - if you take care of them, they last forever, are really reliable and are a pleasure to use.

A straight razor (and good technique) was the end of skin irritation, bumps/ingrown hairs on my neck. My final fine-tune was shifting to warm (not hot) lather, and cold or cool water rinsing with a cold/cold finish.

You gotta want it, though.

I like the DE idea also but I have found there can be a lot of trial and error to that. Which razor is more harsh which blade goes with it best etc. etc. I have a few but have not mastered them yet. Just something for the others to help clarify for you :<0)

I have found that not everyone is willing to bother with the added effort of a straight razor, but everyone I have convinced to try a DE razor has been happy with it. Several vendors offer sample packs of a variety of blades, which greatly increase the odds of quickly finding an optimal blade/razor combination.

Better face prep, including a good soap and a decent brush, will improve any type of shaving. For that reason, an investment in that direction is a great start regardless of what kind of shaving method you choose.

I notice the same thing. I've found a Single Edge or Double Edge razor to be much closer to a cartridge for me. Also, given watching a video or two shaving with a DE, you'll get the angle things and where you need to be for each pass.

Also, have you mapped your the direction of growth of you facial hair? Particularly, the neck hair? If so, what kind of passes have you been doing in the troubled spots? I might suggest that you only do a With The Grain(WTG) pass in this area. I'm currently enjoying looking at my currect facial map in the mirror every morning(grown a full beard for the 1st time). The directions a beard can grow are pretty wild.

Combine that with some serious skin stretching and perfect face prep, I eliminated my facial problems from cartridges(rash, neckline irritation and bumps). Shower, hot towel, rub in shave oil, warm uberlather, then WTG pass. Minus the shower, I repeat the above for the XTG, ATG passes.

Hope something there helps.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I have found that not everyone is willing to bother with the added effort of a straight razor, but everyone I have convinced to try a DE razor has been happy with it. Several vendors offer sample packs of a variety of blades, which greatly increase the odds of quickly finding an optimal blade/razor combination.

Better face prep, including a good soap and a decent brush, will improve any type of shaving. For that reason, an investment in that direction is a great start regardless of what kind of shaving method you choose.

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Yes, that has been my experience also. My Nephews kid started shaving a year ago with an all singing and dancing Gillette multi blade razor and canned goo. Wasn't interested in DEs, never mind straight razors, until this Christmas. He mentioned that he was looking at DEs and soap for sensitive skin online. Fixed him up with a mild shaving Gillette super speed and a few different blades, a synthetic brush and some soaps/creams. Ran into him a few days ago and he said he was really enjoying the DE, brush and soaps. I don't think he will ever want to put up with the cost, learning curve and expense of using a straight razor.

Having and knowing how to use a DE is a great back up idea for anyone only having 1 straight razor. With having only 1 straight razor you will almost inevitably drop it and damage it or mess up the edge with poor honing as a beginner. That means you will be out a razor while you send it out for honing. Sure you can jump into honing your own right away but there is added expense there with buying the proper honing set up and your initial results will likely cause you very poor shaves. Anyway, not to dissuade you from using a straight but merely to point out there is more than meets the eye with this sport.

Bob

A DE is sounding more and more like a good idea (especially as a backup or if don't have time for the stropping and such). A couple of days ago, I ordered a cheap SR on ebay so that I could blunt the blade and (hopefully) use it to build up some dexterity. I've seen a few threads on here about using "practice razors".

In my experience with cartridges, WTG is unpleasant and XTG/ATG is awful. As far as the grain on my neck, it kind of looks like an electromagnetic field, hehe. It's vertical at my jaw line and all the way down the front and transitions to fully horizontal as it gets farther away from the jaw/front. Actually, it transitions to horizontal on one side and ends up in a kind of "swirl" on the other. Some of the hair on the neck also seems to grow closer to parallel to the skin than out of the skin. (This causes my electric razor to be rather ineffective on my neck...)

Maybe a DE, a "practice" SR and a quality brush are a good place to start? I already have some decent water stones that I use for my kitchen knives, so maybe a strop wouldn't be a bad idea either. :hmmm: There's no reason I couldn't use my razor strop for my kitchen knives is there?

Thanks a ton for all the advice!

+1 on the DE. They are a huge improvement over cartridges and if you can find the right combo of razor and blade you can get excellent shaves. Also it will allow you to focus on getting your prep figured out, finding the best soaps for you, getting your lathering down and be able to find out the best post shave for you too. That way all the above is second nature before you move onto straights and you can focus entirely on learning your straight technique. I'm not saying don't use a straight at all but I definately wouldn't try and use one exclusively in your position.

It sounds like you have similar skin and beard to myself. I also didn't shave for 2-3 years at one point because of ingrowns and irritation. I tried just about every cart system and none worked for me but they all cost me a fortune as my beard is so thick I could only comfortably use a cartridge once, as soon as I shaved my chin it was blunt.

Out of my DE's or SE's I find I get the most comfortable shaves (no irritation) with a Murker 34C combo'd with a PolSilver SI. But it really is surprising how much of a difference a blade makes, if I try to use a Personna Lab Blue for example even the 34C tugs causing me irritation but as always YMMV.

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Originally Posted by seanb

Maybe a DE, a "practice" SR and a quality brush are a good place to start? I already have some decent water stones that I use for my kitchen knives, so maybe a strop wouldn't be a bad idea either. :hmmm: There's no reason I couldn't use my razor strop for my kitchen knives is there?

Thanks a ton for all the advice!

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Don't forget a decent soap/cream to go with that brush and learning how to make a good lather. Making a good lather takes practice too.

I'd do some research to see if the water hones you already have are appropriate for honing a straight razor first. There is already a long thread about somebody with experience honing chisels and the like having problems using the hones they already have for those same chisels. Honing a straight razor is vaguely similar to honing a kitchen but different. maybe even quite a bit different. Do not underestimate the learning curve and frustration that can be involved in learning to hone a straight razor.

Bob

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Originally Posted by BobH

I'd do some research to see if the water hones you already have are appropriate for honing a straight razor first. There is already a long thread about somebody with experience honing chisels and the like having problems using the hones they already have for those same chisels. Honing a straight razor is vaguely similar to honing a kitchen but different. maybe even quite a bit different. Do not underestimate the learning curve and frustration that can be involved in learning to hone a straight razor.

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I agree. It's not an undertaking to be taken lightly. Having sharpened knives before, I really just had to come at honing with a blank slate and no pre-conceptions. Basically, admit that I know nothing about it and soak up as much learning as I could before moving that direction. I KNOW I saved myself *alot* of frustration with this approach.

Best,
Simon

Ah, good points about honing. I do have water stones, but even if I started with a SR tomorrow, I'd still send it off to get professionally honed for quite some time before trying to learn to hone myself. I've read on here that the "shave test" might be the most important of all the sharpness tests, and I figure you must know how to shave before you can properly do a shave test! ;)

Also on soaps/brushes/etc: Right now I'm looking at the DE kits on SRD. I have to say that I wish SRD's DE kits came with a blade sample pack instead of just a box of blades (or at least an option to substitute a sample pack).

Yes, you do have water stones but are they the right grit ranges for razor honing? Normally a 1K hone sets the bevel, 3 or 4K hone is next and then an 8K. You can spend more time on a 3-4K hone and set a bevel in lieu of the 1K. You should be able to shave off the 8K hone but most got to 12K or higher then finish on something like Crox before stropping. Do you have any hones in that range?

Bob

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Originally Posted by seanb

Ah, sorry. I haven't actually tried a DE safety razor yet. How similar would they be to straight razors in such a situation? Cost isn't such a big issue - I just want to shave without my face being a disaster.

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I have a really good example. A friend of mine had exactly the conditions you describe. I was always extolling the virtues of DE shaving but he declined to try saying nothing would work and that's why he always sported a goatee.
Well his wife overheard me telling him to change to a DE as she hated his beard, and she asked if I would shave him to prove my point. Well I'll admit to being a little nervous but long story short version, he was amazed. He borrowed one of my DE razors and after just a couple of weeks sent it back saying he was so impressed he'd bought his own. Two years on smooth face no in growing no razor burn happy man and happy wife. Try it you never know, he'd spent 35 years hating shaving now he loves it. Hope this helps

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Originally Posted by Anthony1954

I have a really good example...

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Thanks! I'm hoping that will be my result also. :)

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Originally Posted by BobH

Do you have any hones in that range?

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I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think I have 1k, 3k and 6k stones. Guess I'll probably want another stone when I actually start honing...

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Originally Posted by seanb

I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think I have 1k, 3k and 6k stones. Guess I'll probably want another stone when I actually start honing...

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Yes and no. You can shave off a 1K (Search out the 1K shave test) as well as a 3K, 4K, 6K, etc. Plenty people here have shaved off those stones for years.

I would say immediately, it's not another stone you need, but a second razor..and a third and so on. I keep my pro-honed razor as a holy grail to compare my progress with other razors. I don't even shave with it.

So, a few more razors won't hurt. They can be dirty birdies as long as the blade is good.

Meanwhile, as the interest grabs your fancy, you may turn your attention to the path of how to refresh your razor first. And, that will usually be on a higher grit stone than a 6K.

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Originally Posted by Siguy

I keep my pro-honed razor as a holy grail to compare my progress with other razors.

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That's not a bad idea. All of that's a while down the road, though. I think I've decided to get a DE, a decent brush and some good soap to start off with.

On that topic... I think I've decided on either a Muhle R89 or an Edwin Jagger DE89. Based on what I've read online, I'm leaning towards the EJ. I've read that the EJ's handle is heavier than the Muhle, which I feel like I'd prefer. On the other hand, the Muhle has what looks like a nicely knurled grip. I've seen multiple places where the Muhle and EJ were recommended over the Merkur 34C.

As for brushes, I'd still trying to decide. There are so many out there that it's a tough decision. I'd like to just go with one of the SRD starter kits (with a Thater 4342), but they don't offer a kit with the EJ DE89. I've also read good things about the Wet Shaving Products "Prince" silvertip (it's about the same price as the Thater 4342).

I had all the same issues as the OP!

This is what brought me to straight razors! Ever since using them my issues have gone a way!

I wouldn't say it is the straight razor itself, but the combination of other far superior products that helped me.

I used to always break out with little bumps and red spots after shaving. So I tried a DE. Same thing. I quit using canned shaving cream and most of the irritation went away. I then tried using a shavette with much success once I got the just of it and loved the feel of it afterwards. I then made my migration to the straight razors.

I don't think I will ever try a cartridge and canned stuff again. I think I would rather not shave at all if that was the only thing available.

I would try one of the shaving samples available from one of our great vendors to try and see if that helps before changing to a straight razor. If it helps the need to change razor types may not be necessary, but it will come highly recommended. I think Maggard razors has some nice samples available, cant check now due to firewall restrictions here at work for some reason.

~Gary

So I just placed my order:
- Edwin Jagger DE89bl
- Semogue 1305
- Taylor of Old Bond Street Jermyn Street cream
- one of those generic stainless razor/brush stands (I think the Perfecto one)

For blades, I grabbed small packs of:
- Feather Hi-Stainless Platinum
- Astra Superior Platinum
- Derby Extra

What do you guys think? Again, thanks for all the advice! For down the road some time I've got my eye on a TI 1937... ;)

All good choices. I would recommend you take your time with the DE before you jump into the straights. Get your technique down pat with the DE and the transition to straights will be much easier. Same thing I did.

Beware the feather blades, they are a bit on the aggressive side. For me it took some time for my skin to adjust. I have no problem with them now...

(the 6/8 TI 1937 that I bought new from SRD is a fine shaver!)

Lets throw sensitivity to product in there, as well as skin stretching, maybe pre-shave product and most likely the best , find a Mentor or Senior Member near you to have a couple of one-on-one sessions with.

Seanb, adjust your profile to add where you are located. Makes it easier for us to suggest someone near you, or those near you to come forth and offer their help with your problems. And read the FAQs and in the Library for detailed info on the processes of wet shaving. There is a wealth of info at your finger tips.

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Originally Posted by Razorfeld

Lets throw sensitivity to product in there, as well as skin stretching, maybe pre-shave product and most likely the best , find a Mentor or Senior Member near you to have a couple of one-on-one sessions with.

Seanb, adjust your profile to add where you are located. Makes it easier for us to suggest someone near you, or those near you to come forth and offer their help with your problems. And read the FAQs and in the Library for detailed info on the processes of wet shaving. There is a wealth of info at your finger tips.

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Gotcha. I'm supposed to get my stuff tomorrow, so I've got a bit of reading to do tonight I suppose.

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Originally Posted by ChopperDave

Beware the feather blades...

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Thanks. I did read that they could be a bit rough at first, but I also read that they're some of the sharper blades out there.

Stubble Under Microscope, by Mach 3 vs. DE Safety Razor : wicked_edge

I found this article to be very helpful regarding the differences between Mach3 and DE Wet shaving.

You are on the right course! Good luck!

seanb, I jst did a quick search of members and under the broad term 'Alabama" found 43 members, most of whom aren't currently or recently active. Below are four that are recently active. PM if you want to and see if they are close enough and willing to meet with you and go over basics face-to-face. There are no Mentors currently in Alabama.

d.m.ellington
Dustysuds
jfleming9232
mark9765

Hope this helps. And you can always ask questions on the forum and wade through multiple answers.

Thanks a bunch, Razorfeld! I'll keep you all posted on how it turns out.

seanb, welcome to the forum. I read somewhere that thick and curly hair in particular will cause ingrown issues as it is cut below the epidermis of the skin by a cart. On a three blade system the rubbery plastic bit stretches your skin (too much if a lot of pressure is used), the first blade lifts the hair, the second cuts the hair and the third catches anything left. This means that the cut off hair relaxes into the dermal layer, when growing out again it gets stuck in the dermal layer and causes irritation and lumping before it breaks through. With a single blade this is no longer an issue because we are cutting the hair even with the epidermis and stretching is used to simply stand the hair upright. I had major rash issues with the blade “jittering” on my skin and this was sorted out by controlling the viscosity of my lather which was just not possible with canned product. I think that because I have a thick slow beard growth a cart blade was useless after two shaves, I found that a cart would have to be replaced after three shaves in one week. With a str8 I can maintain the edge indefinitely with my stones. Also remember (and this applies to a str8 I have not used a DE) pressure is key, with a str8 you need to stretch the skin and use a light touch, let the blade do the work. It is a case of hair reduction rather than out and out whacking the hair off. Good luck with your endeavours and give us some feed back about your experience.

So I've received everything but my brush, and decided to go ahead and try it out with my old drug store Burma-Shave brush. I shaved yesterday afternoon with an Astra blade and this morning with a Derby Extra.

I have to say that the results were fantastic! I dove straight in and did WTG shaves and am happy to report no nicks and no irritation. The Taylor Jermyn Street cream was orders of magnitude better than the Williams Mug soap I tried last time. The Burma brush did the job, but I'm sure the Semogue brush will be much nicer (the Burma was rather pokey). Slow strokes with almost no pressure seem to be the way to go for me - as long as I kept to that, there wasn't even the slightest hint of tugging/pulling/friction/etc. I do think I'd like to get a scuttle or something to keep my brush/lather warm (more a comfort issue than anything). On the other hand, a small bowl seems like it might be better for whipping lather.

The Astra blade seemed to shave a little smoother than the Derby one. I'll try the Feather blade tomorrow. I don't know if I got the right Feather blades, though. I thought I was ordering the "Hi-Stainless Platinum" ones which seem to have a yellow label in the pics I've seen. The ones I got, however, have the black and silver packaging (and don't say "platinum"). Is there a difference, or is it a case of different packaging for different markets?

I think I might have caught "the bug". I'll stick with the DE for a while yet, but I'm already starting to think about a straight. Thanks again for all the great advice!

Good to hear you had a very nice experience with the DE and a good cream. The yellow labelled Feather blades are 10 in a pack and the black label ones are 5 in a pack but are the same blades iirc. It does not take much to surpass Williams Mug soap performance. Stay with the light touch on the razor especially with Feather blades.

Bob

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Originally Posted by seanb

I have to say that the results were fantastic!

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Wow. Nice success story. Almost deserves its own post! :y