razor dulling

I prefer one razor over others and i use it daily if not every other day at least. I feel like i must be doing something to dull my razor fast. Fast i mean like every 3 weeks.

I bought a 12K stone a couple months ago. Every month or so i resharpen the blade. In fact i think i have resharpened the blade 2 times since christmas, and i just redid it again today for the 3rd time since christmas. Can you wear down a razor by sharpening too much to the point where it is destroyed? How long does that take?

After each sharpening, the blade glides along my face nicely, seems as sharp as when i received it from members here. However 3 weeks later it is dull and pulls on the hairs. I am not sure if i am at too deep of an angle when shaving, incorrect stropping, but i dont believe its the quality of the razor. Or whether maybe this is just the process of learning straight razor shaving. Is this normal in your 3 month time into shaving?

I believe i know what sharp is, due to the fact of having a few razors to use as a reference from this forum. I have used them a couple times to try them, but mostly use them to compare my daily razor sharpness.

My daily razor is a "Gold Seal, Germany" stamped on the sides.

I have watched hours of stropping videos linked from this forum. I tried to strop at the same angle that i honed it as, but for some reason it does not work. I think i might not be touching the edge when i am that low of an angle. I bring the angle up a bit more and i hear that scratching noise. This is where i try to stay at. If i bring the angle up even more i hear the scratching noise get louder. At this point i feel like i might be bending the edge. So i try to keep the spine a hair above the strop while applying no pressure. This method seemed to get me through the initial months, but now i am trying to prolong the edge to not have to resharpen it every few weeks. And i am not sure if this is a part of it or not.

When i shave...i feel like it depends on the sharpeness of the razor that day depends on the angle. After honing, i can have it a low angle. After a few weeks, i seem to raise the angle, while applying more pressure, just to do the same shave.





I think that is the related information needed in determining the reason why a blade dulls. Any more information needed, let me know. Thanks in advance.

I'm not clear what you mean by "angle when you strop". When stropping, the spine and edge should BOTH be on the leather (or whatever) through each stroke, and the blade flipped, on its spine, and then taken back the opposite direction, spine always leading and edge trailing, but with both fully contacting the surface. Some strop toe leading or do X strokes, but at least at the beginning I suggest just going up and down the strop if you have a 3 inch strop, and in a subtle (not angled and exaggerated) X if your strop is narrower. Gentleness of your stroke and tautness of the strop are also keys. Go slow, go steady, go without more pressure than it takes to stay in contact with the strop. Barring a faucet ding, bad stropping is the #1 common cause of degrading an edge.

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When stropping, the spine and edge should BOTH be on the leather

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Hmm. When i tried that, it seems to not do much. But i guess i have no choice if I pitch the angle up and it degrades that edge. Then i must put it down lower. Thank you.

It definitely sounds from your description that your stropping needs some improvement. I would recommend two things: 1. find some more threads on stropping here, including videos; 2. find a local mentor who can help you with your stropping. And this one is a bonus: different blades and different leathers make for different noises, DON'T change your angle to "make a noise" similar to what you heard on a video.

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Originally Posted by metulburr

Hmm. When i tried that, it seems to not do much. But i guess i have no choice if I pitch the angle up and it degrades that edge. Then i must put it down lower. Thank you.

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Not LOWER, but FLAT ON THE STROP, or you are rounding the edge off.

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Originally Posted by metulburr

Hmm. When i tried that, it seems to not do much. But i guess i have no choice if I pitch the angle up and it degrades that edge. Then i must put it down lower. Thank you.

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Here is Lynn's video on basic stropping. Watch it... Notice he says to keep the edge AND the spine on the strop...

http://youtu.be/

My impression is that the TS thinks he must kinda hone the edge on the leather. Correct stropping really "doesn't do much" besides flattening the folded edge that occurred during the last shave. Minimal force is necessary. The edge should just be trailing the spine on the leather.
Maybe it would help you to try to just strop the spine at first and then gradually lower the edge onto the leather until it just barely touches. Pull the strop fairly tight but let the pressure of the spine(!) make it slack lightly, maybe 1/4 inch or so.

Best wishes,
Joe

meralburr,

It sounds to me that you are on the right track. You want the edge to have good contact with the strop, but not with an excessive amount of force that might blunt it. The starting point is very light pressure (not much more weight of the blade) and spine and edge in contact with the strop. As you get more practice with stropping, you can use techniques such as shifting the emphasis toward the edge and away from the spine while being very careful to not bear down on the edge enough to bend/blunt it. It's hard to describe, but it very close to what you seem to be doing already. When you get a feel for it, just a few laps on the strop will return your edge to a "just honed" level of sharpness. Including a linen/canvas/web/felt/etc. type of strop with or without a light abrasive and you will be able to shave for years without going back to a stone for honing.

Good luck,
Jeff

Yea, you are rolling the edge, the next lap will break it off or cause a chip Lift the spine just once and the edge is gone.

Look at the edge straight down with magnification. Any shiny spots are chips, rolled edge or where the bevel was not completely set.

This is a common new shaver problem. Keep the spine on the strop at all time, lite pressure, stop before you flip.
100 laps is not excessive.

Yes you are wearing you razor, by honing repeatedly, but if you are just touching up with the 12K you should not be removing mush steel.

Use tape to preserve the spine until you master honing and maintenance.

Just make sure you actually have an edge, where the bevels are meeting.

Remember you cannot see the actual edge, even with 400x, you need an SEM to see the actual edge.

Two points determine a line.

Two lines determine a plane.

Both bevels, that meet to form the edge, are planes that are determined by the two lines that touch the hone, or the strop. The two lines are the edge and the spine. A shaving edge happens when both bevels meet at the edge.

You change the geometry when lifting the spine during stropping and no longer maintain flat contact with each bevel. You are forcing a change in the bevel angle and are folding over the delicate and fine edge. Folding leads to breaking and that fine edge quickly becomes a jagged edge.

Take home message is that both the spine and the edge MUST maintain contact with the strop during each and every stroke on the leather. ONE stroke with the spine lifted off of the leather can trash your edge.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

ONE stroke with the spine lifted off of the leather can trash your edge.

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And many of us have done it when new, and been able to tell with the next shave, "Something's wrong?!?" You are not alone!

There is no "angle adjustment" in stropping or honing. The angle is built into the blade geometry. Both spine and blade edge must make contact at all times. If your edge is on the strop and your spine is not, you've likely just killed your edge. This is one area in straight razor craft where the old "your mileage may vary" quote does not apply.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Take home message is that both the spine and the edge MUST maintain contact with the strop during each and every stroke on the leather. ONE stroke with the spine lifted off of the leather can trash your edge.

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So if that is done, what's the plan of action to resolve? Stropping? Touch up on 12k? Or does one need to go back to a bevel set?

Thanks everyone. I am not sure where i got the idea that i must lift the spine whne stropping. I rehoned the razor and am now re-teaching myself stropping. I havent done enough shaving yet to see the difference.

It depends on how much damage was done.

Look at the edge straight down and see how bad the damage is, how many chips and how deep. If you see reflections, look at the bevels from the side to see how deep the chip/s is/are.

If they are lite a touch up on a 12 or 8k should hone them out.

If they are deeper, there are two schools, one is you do some laps on the lightest stone and work progressively backwards to more aggressive stones until the chip is removed.

Or just bevel set the razor, completely removing the chip and build a whole new bevel.

Either way you will remove the same amount of steel and end up with the same new bevel, but going backwards often takes more time and you end up doing a full bevel set anyway.

So the answer is… it depends on what you see when you look at the edge.

Gleaning what I can about your comments about angle adjustments and such, I guarantee this razor needs to be sent to a pro for re-honing. Not trying to bust your chops, just want to see you have a pleasurable experience with the straights.

I just wanted to update this. I re-honed it, and have been stropping with the spine and edge on the leather. Today, more than a month later, the edge feels still pretty sharp....like i recently had it honed...but has touched nothing but the leather since my OP on this thread. That must of been my problem. Thanks guys.

I would guess that it is careless stroping, because like may have said bothe the spine, and blade , should both be in constant contact throught the stroke with the leather/webbing/cloth, and the one thing that i can think of is that on one of your passes your hitting your blade against the leather, which will kill your edge in about the time your describing , if not sooner , so slow down on your stoping