Hair to Coarse for WTG?

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03-13-2015, 03:20 AM
hotreffys

Hair to Coarse for WTG?

Hi everybody. I'm new to straight razor shaving and I'm having a little trouble. The thing I'm most concerned about is whether I need to start going XTG to truly get the close shave you get from a straight razor. I'm still using my dominant hand and shaving from my sideburn to my jaw. I've gotten to the point where my WTG stroke is slightly better than my Mach 3 WTG stroke but I still have to go back with my Mach 3 and go ATG to get a really close shave. I know ATG is not preferred but I have to go ATG with my Mach 3 to get a close shave.

So my question is: Is my WTG straight razor stroke not that great and that's why I still have to go over it again with my Mach 3? Or is this simply my hair being too coarse and I have to learn XTG to get a great shave?

If you guys could help me out I would really appreciate it. Thanks everyone!
03-13-2015, 03:27 AM
RezDog

There are a few variables. One is did you get your razor from somewhere that is certain to deliver a shave ready blade. The other is that they don't really cut so well when the angle is too steep. Then there is skin stretching and holding that is essential to a decent shave.
03-13-2015, 03:38 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

There are a few variables. One is did you get your razor from somewhere that is certain to deliver a shave ready blade. The other is that they don't really cut so well when the angle is too steep. Then there is skin stretching and holding that is essential to a decent shave.

Thanks for replying! I got my razor from Vintage Blades and it is professionally honed--they said Lynn Abrams honed the blade. I think I'm doing a good job of stretching the skin but I'll really focus on that tomorrow when I shave.
03-13-2015, 03:44 AM
RezDog

Don't forget a low blade angle. It should only be a 1 1/2 to 2 spine widths off your face.
03-13-2015, 03:52 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

Don't forget a low blade angle. It should only be a 1 1/2 to 2 spine widths off your face.

Thank you for helping out. I really appreciate it. I think my shave angle is okay but I will focus on that in addition to your other tips. But it seems like you are saying that no matter how coarse your hair might be, if you are shaving correctly WTG then you will achieve a super smooth shave. So much so that I should not need to go back with the Mach 3 and finish. Is that fair to say?
03-13-2015, 03:59 AM
RezDog

Everyone is a little bit different. It may work out in the end that you don't get a great shave with the grain. I actually don't bother with a WTG pass for most of my face. My whiskers lay very flat to my skin and in order to cut them WTG it requires enough pressure for a rash. I do WTG for my mustache and chin and then one against, except the mustache and one across. Eventually we all wind up finding our best shaving practices for our face and skin and whiskers. We all start at more or less the same place. A little mapping of the growth direction of your whiskers can gel you figure out what happens where on your face to help you find what passes work best for you.
03-13-2015, 04:02 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

Everyone is a little bit different. It may work out in the end that you don't get a great shave with the grain. I actually don't bother with a WTG pass for most of my face. My whiskers lay very flat to my skin and in order to cut them WTG it requires enough pressure for a rash. I do WTG for my mustache and chin and then one against, except the mustache and one across. Eventually we all wind up finding our best shaving practices for our face and skin and whiskers. We all start at more or less the same place. A little mapping of the growth direction of your whiskers can gel you figure out what happens where on your face to help you find what passes work best for you.

Thank you so much for all your help!
03-13-2015, 04:16 AM
Grazor

Good advice from RezDog, and it does take time to learn to shave with a straight. Don't expect stellar results at first, and finish with your mach 3 when necessary. Take your time and enjoy, it will all come together.
03-13-2015, 04:20 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grazor

Good advice from RezDog, and it does take time to learn to shave with a straight. Don't expect stellar results at first, and finish with your mach 3 when necessary. Take your time and enjoy, it will all come together.

Thanks. It's so frustrating. I watch the videos and people make it seem so easy. It's nice to hear from experienced people that this is a process and it takes time. Thank you again.
03-13-2015, 04:27 AM
FranfC

Shaun has given you very good advise, I think my first really good shave came at about #38 or there a bouts. Been at it almost a year now and I'm still learning new things that make my shave better, I think that is part of what I love about this.
If it was easy I would get bored.
Just try to have fun with it, the shaves will get better the more you shave and practice the skills.
03-13-2015, 04:30 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by FranfC

Shaun has given you very good advise, I think my first really good shave came at about #38 or there a bouts. Been at it almost a year now and I'm still learning new things that make my shave better, I think that is part of what I love about this.
If it was easy I would get bored.
Just try to have fun with it, the shaves will get better the more you shave and practice the skills.

Thanks FranfC! Can't stress enough how great it is to hear from others that this process takes time.
03-13-2015, 04:40 AM
Phrank

All great advice here, aside from practice, knowing how your beard grows, and proper stretching, at this stage of the game beard preparation is very important as well.

While I usually just splash cold water on my face, lather up and shave, at the beginning beard prep and properly hydrating your beard was vital to a good shave.

I used to use Proraso Pre-Shave, the Green or White jar, great stuff, but heavily scented, so unless you're using the corresponding Proraso soap, I found it destroyed the scent of whatever soap I was using. Pre-shave oils are good as well, but many tended to not really work for me, and gunk up my brush as well.

Obie mentioned that he uses Castle Forbes Unscented Pre-Shave Oil, I got some of this a month or so ago, and it is superb. Doesn't gunk up my brush, really hydrates and lifts the whiskers, and simply provides a very luxurious shaving experience. Made my shaves just that much more enjoyable.

Something you may want to consider...hope this helps....:D
03-13-2015, 04:46 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phrank

All great advice here, aside from practice, knowing how your beard grows, and proper stretching, at this stage of the game beard preparation is very important as well.

While I usually just splash cold water on my face, lather up and shave, at the beginning beard prep and properly hydrating your beard was vital to a good shave.

I used to use Proraso Pre-Shave, the Green or White jar, great stuff, but heavily scented, so unless you're using the corresponding Proraso soap, I found it destroyed the scent of whatever soap I was using. Pre-shave oils are good as well, but many tended to not really work for me, and gunk up my brush as well.

Obie mentioned that he uses Castle Forbes Unscented Pre-Shave Oil, I got some of this a month or so ago, and it is superb. Doesn't gunk up my brush, really hydrates and lifts the whiskers, and simply provides a very luxurious shaving experience. Made my shaves just that much more enjoyable.

Something you may want to consider...hope this helps....:D

Thanks Phrank! Yeah my lathers aren't great right now but I have seen improvement over the last couple of shaves. Right after my shower I shave. I use hot water to lift the whiskers so it's interesting to hear someone use cold water. Thanks for the advice man.
03-13-2015, 05:01 AM
rodb

It took me about 40 shaves to not need a safety razor touch-up afterwards. As others have said, watch your angle, it should be barely off your face to start with until you find the sweet spot. Also stretching is very important as is a really good prep. You should start seeing real improvements by 20 shaves give or take.
03-13-2015, 05:14 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodb

It took me about 40 shaves to not need a safety razor touch-up afterwards. As others have said, watch your angle, it should be barely off your face to start with until you find the sweet spot. Also stretching is very important as is a really good prep. You should start seeing real improvements by 20 shaves give or take.

Thanks! I'm going to really focus on my stretching. A lot of people have mentioned that to me.
03-13-2015, 05:16 AM
technoid

Keep on practicing as it sounds like you haven't figured out the combination yet. Close though.
Mapping hair growth is a great help and so is the technique as well. I found hot water works better for me than cold, also running a little hot water on the blade before I start seems to make a difference for me. I usually do two passes, one with grain and one across it. There are two places on my neck that I found I have to use a combination arched and scything stroke to catch. Just keep at it and you will figure it out eventually. Just be sure you pay attention as you do so that you can repeat it the next time.
03-13-2015, 05:18 AM
whoever

Quote:

Originally Posted by RezDog

Don't forget a low blade angle. It should only be a 1 1/2 to 2 spine widths off your face.

to help get the ange correct, place one finger beind the spine then your finger wiith the blade against your cheeck, then the blade should be very close if not at the right angle , try to make a pass with it, if it feels like your about to cut your face off then angle the spine away from your your head. If your not removing much then bring the spin closer to your head.
remember, do not make a sawing mothion, and lather, if you don't have enough cushion you can feel a tug or a burn feel from your shave
also remember beard reduction not beard removal(don't try to take all hair in one pass).
03-13-2015, 05:23 AM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by technoid

Keep on practicing as it sounds like you haven't figured out the combination yet. Close though.
Mapping hair growth is a great help and so is the technique as well. I found hot water works better for me than cold, also running a little hot water on the blade before I start seems to make a difference for me. I usually do two passes, one with grain and one across it. There are two places on my neck that I found I have to use a combination arched and scything stroke to catch. Just keep at it and you will figure it out eventually. Just be sure you pay attention as you do so that you can repeat it the next time.

I have started to really pay attention to my hair growth. I never really cared about it with my Mach 3 but I have now. I'm gonna try the cold water at least once to see what affect it has. Thanks for the advice.
03-13-2015, 11:59 AM
eddy79

As said above it is beard reduction. Most of us make multiple passes in various combinations using various strokes to get to our desired shaving goals. Keep at it and in time and practice if will come together
03-13-2015, 01:19 PM
feltspanky

Some good shaving videos to develop your technique.

Best How to Shave with a Straight Razor Tutorial for Beginners Straight Razor Designs.com - YouTube

http://youtu.be/r24ar_SSGVo

http://youtu.be/XIM0Coix6Gg
03-13-2015, 01:36 PM
BobH

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotreffys

Hi everybody. I'm new to straight razor shaving and I'm having a little trouble. The thing I'm most concerned about is whether I need to start going XTG to truly get the close shave you get from a straight razor. I'm still using my dominant hand and shaving from my sideburn to my jaw. I've gotten to the point where my WTG stroke is slightly better than my Mach 3 WTG stroke but I still have to go back with my Mach 3 and go ATG to get a really close shave. I know ATG is not preferred but I have to go ATG with my Mach 3 to get a close shave.

If I understand you correctly, you think you only need to do one pass with a straight razor for a BBS shave. That is just not going to happen. A good shave is gotten through gradual stubble reduction using multiple passes. Generally the first pass is WTG and removes the most amount of stubble. Next the XTG pass removes some more stubble and the final ATG pass should take care of the rest for a DFS, sometimes a BBS.

If you try to do it all in one pass you will likely be applying too much pressure and will be well on the way to a razor burned face.

Bob
03-13-2015, 01:53 PM
RedGladiator

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobH

If I understand you correctly, you think you only need to do one pass with a straight razor for a BBS shave. That is just not going to happen. A good shave is gotten through gradual stubble reduction using multiple passes. Generally the first pass is WTG and removes the most amount of stubble. Next the XTG pass removes some more stubble and the final ATG pass should take care of the rest for a DFS, sometimes a BBS.

If you try to do it all in one pass you will likely be applying too much pressure and will be well on the way to a razor burned face.

Bob

This is how I read it too.

I suggest watching a few 3 pass shaves on utube.
03-13-2015, 03:46 PM
edhewitt

BobH has pretty much nailed it, you wont have a really smooth finish after one pass.

Generally 100 shaves is about where people figure out the basics repeatably.

You can make practice lathers, shaving soap isnt so expensive that this is cost prohibitive, make and ditch a lather a few times until you get something good and repeatable.

Map your beard, direction of growth isnt to a template.

learn good stretching, use the stretch to pull skin to a more practical area or direction to shave.
03-13-2015, 04:23 PM
tcrideshd

it takes quite a few shaves till you get the technique down, don't get frustrated , one day it will just click and then they,ll be good shaves coming. tc
03-13-2015, 06:11 PM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by feltspanky

Some good shaving videos to develop your technique.

Best How to Shave with a Straight Razor Tutorial for Beginners Straight Razor Designs.com - YouTube

http://youtu.be/r24ar_SSGVo

http://youtu.be/XIM0Coix6Gg

Thanks for the videos! I've watched the Lynn Abrams one but I'll check the others out.
03-13-2015, 06:14 PM
hotreffys

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobH

If I understand you correctly, you think you only need to do one pass with a straight razor for a BBS shave. That is just not going to happen. A good shave is gotten through gradual stubble reduction using multiple passes. Generally the first pass is WTG and removes the most amount of stubble. Next the XTG pass removes some more stubble and the final ATG pass should take care of the rest for a DFS, sometimes a BBS.

If you try to do it all in one pass you will likely be applying too much pressure and will be well on the way to a razor burned face.

Bob

You understood me correctly. I was under the assumption that one pass would give me that super smooth shave but clearly I was way off on that. I still have some practice to go according to the beginners guide before I can start going XTG and ATG. I can't wait to get to that point!
03-13-2015, 07:16 PM
BobH

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotreffys

You understood me correctly. I was under the assumption that one pass would give me that super smooth shave but clearly I was way off on that. I still have some practice to go according to the beginners guide before I can start going XTG and ATG. I can't wait to get to that point!

Just take your time and go at your own pace. Things will get better, there is no rush. Good luck.

Bob
03-13-2015, 10:42 PM
noonshyne

I improved the closeness of my first pass when I increased my stropping to 100 round trips. So many things to learn��. It will happen!
03-13-2015, 11:20 PM
coryschmidt

I have pretty coarse whiskers as well. Skin stretching is key as it will stand the whiskers up so they get cut closer to the skin. I usually can't feel stubble on my cheeks after a WTG pass if I stroke them with the grain but I can against the grain. That's normal. I usually don't get neck and jawline that close because it's hard to stretch those areas well.

I've found that many of the videos of dudes doing quick passes with super long strokes just don't apply to guys like us with coarse whiskers. So don't set the bar too high. I get a BBS shave every morning in about 35 minutes which includes building lather, shaving, and cleanup and there's a whole lot of 'buffing' strokes and some areas where I do 4 passes. It's all part of the journey to learn your face, whisker growth direction, sharpness of the blade, special strokes to get to those difficult areas, blade angle, blade type, ad nauseum. But when it does come together you cannot beat it. My face feels like glass when I'm done and I can't go back to any other type of shaving. I'm addicted!
03-14-2015, 02:08 PM
eddy79

Quote:

Originally Posted by edhewitt

Map your beard, direction of growth isnt to a template.

.

This might help with the mapping
http://www.pbjsite.com/shave/whiskarmap/

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