Questions I'd like to ask before getting my first straight razor

Hello everyone, I am completely new to straight razor shaving, before getting my first straight razor, I do have a couple of questions which I couldn't get answers online and wish the experienced shavers here would be kind enough to help me out.

I did a little search on the net about the advantages of straight razor shaving, some article said disposable blades pull up whiskers a little before cut, thus cause skin irritation, razor burn, redness and so on, why is it so? Does the same apply to DE blades used on a safety razor, or even on a Dovo Shavette?

I use both cartridge and safety razor to shave, and now hoping to get a Dovo straight razor. I just wonder how people grade these razors. Really wish to know so that I can decide which model I want to try. I am not talking about fancy features like gold plated ones, or luxurious horn handles, or super vintage ones with historical significance, but only for the sake of a quality shave.

And it's been like a myth to me that many say straight razors manufactured some years ago perform better than those produced today, even they came from the same brand. I wonder what makes the difference. The materials has changed? The way they forge them changed?

Seems I have asked a lot of questions, thanks for your time reading them.

Hello and welcome to the forum.

I believe that "skin irritation, razor burn, redness and so" are caused by other things than the razor used. Things like poor lather, too much pressure on the blade, wrong angle on the blade and a dull blade to name a few.

In modern production straight razors the price differences between different models of the same make reflects how fancy the razor looks not the quality of the blade. So the basic model in any line should shave as well as a more expensive model in the same line you just don't have the bling effect.

A basic model Dovo with a shave ready edge should provide a quality shave. There is much more that goes into getting a quality shave than just the razor. You need to learn the proper technique and with a straight razor that is a fairly long learning curve to accomplish.

I only have one new made straight razor and the rest are vintage blades. They all give a close comfortable shave if the edge is good and I do my part correctly. I don't see much difference between new and vintage from a reputable maker.

If you have not already done so I suggest you read the Library section Straight Razor Place Library - Straight Razor Place Library . It will likely give you a lot of answers to some questions you have.

Bob

Probable reasons disposables cause irritation & the likes:

They (multi blade versions) do pull the hair a smidge before cutting it. This is achieved with the blades being positioned so close together.

Razor burn from disposables is usually from too much friction (poor lather/goo in a can), or too much pressure. The modern shaving contraptions are so idiot proofed that is is difficult to nick yourself, and impossible to really cut yourself like you can with a DE or SR. They employ guards & wires to keep the blade edge from taking a bite out of crime. As a result, most folks really push the razor against their skin. That will cause good enough razor burn that cold water stings like the dickens. (Don't ask me how I know this.)

I, too, found this forum before I bought my first SR. I started implementing what I read immediately, more than a month before getting my SR. The first thing to improve was the razor burn, because "no pressure" seemed to be a universal truth.

Stopping before I ramble. Hope this helps!

With the multi blade cartridges, they pull your whiskers up and then cut the hair at a point that would have normally been below the skin. This in turn can and usually does cause ingrown hairs and red bumps. Also, depending on the cartridge, they could have from 2 (if your old school) to 5 or 6 blades. So think about it like this. Every swipe with a 6 bladed cartridge is like 6 passes with a straight or safety. I only do three passes with my straight. With the Grain (WTG), Across the Grain (XTG), and Against the Grain (ATG). If I were to try to do all three directions with a 6 bladed razor that would be 18 passes equivalent. I don't care who you are, 18 passes is going to mess you face up unless your leather face but hey thats probably how he got his leather face.

A shavette and a safety razor use the same blades so your going to get the same shave its just a different technique used so that might affect the quality in shave as you get used to a new type. But as you get proficient in both you really shouldn't notice a difference unless your using two different types of blades. However they are both only single bladed systems so no they shouldn't inherently cause irritation like cartridges do. Meaning your only going to get irritation if your technique is bad and you choose blades your skin doesn't agree with.

As for getting a Dovo. Its really up to you. They all shave about the same. Some have some designs that make it easier to hone and strop like the shoulderless designs but usually more expensive. I would say get whatever strikes your fancy that you can afford. But don't just look at Dovo either. There are other manufacturers still in the straight razor game.

Lastly I would say the myth is true. Don't know why exactly but I would guess that because there isn't a huge demand for straight razors now like there used to be. So when you have low demand you have to adjust your profit margins to make the most money off of what you do sell yet still maintain some kind of quality. Therefore maybe they cut cost at the refinery and don't buy the best steel they can like they used to, or maybe they cut it at the forging steps and don't put as much effort into their work like they used to. Or maybe the cut it at the grinding stage and aren't as precise as they used to be to save time. Or maybe they do it at all three stages. I don't really know if this actually happens for a fact but its what I think. I mean they are a business not a bunch of razor nuts like we are. I will tell you though that I only own one modern made straight and its a dovo, the rest are all vintage. I haven't shaved with the dovo in at least a year. Not that it doesn't provide a great shave, it does. Its just that my vintage razors prove even better, and cheaper.

I used to shave with no prep. Rub some stuff on my face, push a razor into the skin and drag down until all the goo was gone. I would replace the razor once a week.

When I bought a straight I learned that lather from a brush, a hot towel, and NO pressure led to a much smoother shave. The early shaves however were not comfortable as I was learning how to hold a razor, how to shave with both hands, howvtobproperly stretch my skin. Once it all started coming together, it was fantastic.

Then I thought I try my hand at a safety razor and reverted back to pushing the razor into my skin. Big no no.

Good lather + good prep + sharp edge + no pressure = happy shave

You will not go wrong with a shave ready Dovo. If you are looking to SRD for your purchase, any of the brands they sell come shave ready and all are good shavers. TIs tend be a bit more forgiving maintenance wise starting out but I find them less forgiving when it comes to the shave. Ralph Austs are also very nice and something you may want to consider.

Hi and welcome. I would say that the cartridges have been explained well. The same reason that it is hard to nick yourself is the same reason I think people use so much pressure. It is hard to gey close. I used to do a 3 pass shaves with touch ups and still couldnt get as close as I do with a straight. With the shavette or de burn is caused by technique issues like pressure, angle and stretching.

Amy basic model by any of the quality new razor manufacturers should serve you well. The depate over vintage vs new could go on forever but it pays to keep in mind that everyone used to use a straight and masters in the trade oversaw and made blades day in and day out for decades and it was a thriving industry where now few of these people remain and it is small scale compared to what it was. Im sure a lot of knowledge and skills have been lost simply by not being passed on.

I am glad that I have joined this forum. Thank you for all the useful inputs. Now I am more comfortable to pick my first straight razor.

I did learn to apply "no pressure" with my safety razor, but I have to admit, when whiskers in more tricky areas won't go away in 3rd pass, I tend to apply pressure. I know I can't let that happen with a straight razor.

I use after shave product to relief my sensitive skins from razor burn, and I think I'm adding pre shave oil into the equation as well.

The one thing that hasn't been mentioned (since it wasn't raised by your questions) is that any new straight razor you buy needs to be really "shave ready" meaning hand-honed by an expert. Dovos from some vendors say shave ready, and, if questioned will say that is as honed from the factory. Such razors are not really shave ready. So use care in buying your first SR that it comes from a vendor that has them honed by someone with skill after they are received from the factory or distributor.

Starting out, "shave ready" is very important as you will have no point of reference. The classifieds on here for used and Straight Razor Designs for new are very good choices for shave ready razors. There are probably other fine vendors with shave ready blades out there but I don't know them

Hi everyone. Had my first go today. It was as awful as expected.

I took advice from Lynn Abrams' article and tried not to perform a complete shave on first trial. I tried one side of my face only, with dominant hand, from side burn to jaw, cheek and a little on the chin, all WTG. Especially when shaving on the cheek, I felt some burning sensations which I never had before, that made me a bit uncomfortable. It felt like I could cut myself anytime. After these careful down strokes, it looked like I haven't shaved at all, and I finished my shaving with my usual disposable blade.

That was day one. I read some say straight razors are not meant to be used everyday, is it true? Do I have to wait 48 hours till I can use it again?

And strangely, I rinsed off the blade and wipe carefully away the water drops, some brownish dots immediately appeared at where the water drops was. They look like stains or even rust and thats awful. What are they and how do I get rid of them? I rinsed and even wiped again and they wouldn't go away. I wonder if those will hurt my new razor, which is supposed to last quite a long time.


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Congratulations on your first efforts with a Straight razor. You are absolutely correct to take things slowly when first learning. As to the shave itself . . .

Where did you purchase your razor from? I ask because that will allow us to ascertain if it might not have been truly "shave ready". As others have said this is VERY important.

I cannot comment about the "spots" that have appeared on your blade. What I would suggest is that you not close the blade until it has been allowed to thoroughly dry itself off in open air.

With respect to how often you can shave with a straight razor, my answer would be to shave as often as you do with any other shaving equipment. For me, it is every other day. for others, shaving every day with a Straight is no trouble at all.


Above all, do not get discouraged. It takes a long time to learn how to use a Straight razor properly. I have been doing this since the beginning of this year, and I STILL learn new things every time I shave. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I use after shave product to relief my sensitive skins from razor burn, and I think I'm adding pre shave oil into the equation as well.

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Some guys find pre-shave oil to be helpful, but even better is to pay particular attention to your regular face prep. In the long run that will prove to be more benefit than a pre-shave oil or creme. That having been said, if you try the pre-shave oil and it works, then by all means use and enjoy it. It just isn't *necessary*. :)

Congrats on your first razor purchase and shave. I would echo Orville's question regarding where you purchased it as that may indicate that it wasn't really shave ready. But even with a perfectly honed edge, patience and perseverance are key. Hang in there - it will get better!

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Originally Posted by Orville

Where did you purchase your razor from? I ask because that will allow us to ascertain if it might not have been truly "shave ready". As others have said this is VERY important.

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Thanks Orville for asking. I got this Dovo 6/8 from a knife shop and have it honed right away by an expert.

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Originally Posted by Cangooner

Some guys find pre-shave oil to be helpful, but even better is to pay particular attention to your regular face prep. In the long run that will prove to be more benefit than a pre-shave oil or creme.

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I probably should try different ways for face prep.

Anyone has any idea on the brown spots on the blade? These spots are ugly and just won't go away :(

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

Anyone has any idea on the brown spots on the blade? These spots are ugly and just won't go away :(

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It is the beginning of rust formation. If you have some protective oil/lubricant, try rubbing that on the blade after it has had time to dry out. My brand new Dovo did something similar, and rubbing the razor oil I got from SRD removed most of the staining.

It only took two shaves, rinsing the blade off, before it started to develop rust like a teenager does pimples. After that, I picked up a sponge to wipe the lather onto. The "bone" shaped sponge is available anywhere car wash/wax supplies are sold for under $2. I keep mine dry, to further reduce the risk of rust formation, and on the counter so I don't accidentally chip my blade on the sink. After I rinse & thoroughly ring out the sponge at the end of the shave, I then use what little moisture is left on it to clean the remnants of lather residue from my blade. Gently dry with towel, strop just a bit to ensure the edge is dry, store open in a seldom used room of the house with plenty of airflow until my next shave.

Hope this helps!

Try using some mothers or maas Polish for the spots. The likely suspect for the spots is hard water. You may want to try purified or distilled water, it should not cause rust or staining issues like hard water.

As far as your shave goes, use less pressure, think of it like you're trying to just get the lather wiped off without touching your skin. Also keep the spine of the razor so it is almost touching your face, rule of thumb is 1-2 spine widths.

I'll include a link to a guy who just posted a video he has great "touch" with a straight. You can see how little angle and pressure he uses.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ml#post1510546

I realize it's a kamisori but if you watch the pressure he uses and the angle to face you will see what I'm talking about. Assuming who ever honed your razor did a good job and you haven't stropped it improperly,you should see a dramatic difference in shave quality. Lather quality is a big one too. It only gets better if you're patient and keep at it.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

Anyone has any idea on the brown spots on the blade? These spots are ugly and just won't go away :(

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The spots might be as Orville suggests, caused by water that you missed or perhaps more likely, by a little soap residue. Any little speck of soap can cause staining since it's hydroscopic and may even contain a trace amount of free alkali.

Either way, they can be removed with a metal polish such as Flitz, Maas, Mothers, etc. Some have reported using Brasso although I have not tried it. Just be careful not to damage the edge (or your fingers). The eraser end of a common lead pencil works well for rubbing the polish.

Then just do a little better cleanup in the future, allow the razor to dry, preferably in moving air before closing, and store it in a dry place.

Welcome aboard!


rs,
Tack

Welcome to SRP Alphaspider75: This is a good thread regarding pre-shave prep to avoid razor burn and irritation. I used Noxzema Cleansing Cream for a long time. I recently switched to the Neutrogena. Do some experimentation and see which products work the best for you.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/pre-s...ml#post1510077

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Originally Posted by Crawler

It only took two shaves, rinsing the blade off, before it started to develop rust like a teenager does pimples. After that, I picked up a sponge to wipe the lather.

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My razor is a carbon steel one, not stainless steel. Just didn't expect it only takes a few seconds to develop stains after contact with water. I do wrap the blade with protective oil after using it. Seems I can't rinse it without having stains all over the blade, but I guess it might not be a thorough cleaning without rinsing with running water.

Thank you Feltspanky for suggesting products which ease skin irritation. My skin is so sensitive that I can even get redness simply by rubbing on the face or neck with my hand.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

My razor is a carbon steel one, not stainless steel. Just didn't expect it only takes a few seconds to develop stains after contact with water. I do wrap the blade with protective oil after using it. Seems I can't rinse it without having stains all over the blade, but I guess it might not be a thorough cleaning without rinsing with running water.

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It shouldn't happen that quickly. Rinse it under very hot running water after shaving, which heats the steel some....then dry carefully with a dry tissue staying away from the edge as to not damage it or cut yourself.

Then leave it open in a dry room to let it completely dry. Then and only then apply oil lightly or wipe with an oil or silicon impregnated cloth. If you apply oil too soon, you may be sealing moisture in against the steel.

In short, it isn't the rinsing that is making it rust, it is not drying it completely before you close it. I leave mine out open on top of my dresser for 8-12 hours after shaving to ensure they are completely dry.

the "Knife Shop" probably didn't give you a trues shave ready edge, tc

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I use both cartridge and safety razor to shave, and now hoping to get a Dovo straight razor.

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You won't go wrong wit this brand, but depending on the cost of the razor it may not be shave ready when you get it and you may have to hone it first. The quality of the blade will probably be good (I don't think Dovo put out rubbish), but depending on what you get, the scales could be cheap plastic. I got a Dov Prima with Ebony scales shat was shave ready out of the box. At $230 it probably cost me $70-$80 more than a basic model I would have to hone first, but I subsidized my purchase with a gift card I got from my job.

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some article said disposable blades pull up whiskers a little before cut

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Cartridge razors with multiple blades my work this way but a single blade straight razor wouldn't since it can only cut.

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Really wish to know so that I can decide which model I want to try.

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The main thing about a razor is the steel and the thing that influences that the most is the carbon content ( though manganese, silicon and chromium are also added in ). Silver steel (which is a fairly common tool steel) is used a lot in razors and seems to be pretty good. The difference between silver steel and carbon steel is that silver steel is carbon steel with a defined carbon content between 0.95-1.25%.

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And it's been like a myth to me that many say straight razors manufactured some years ago perform better than those produced today, even they came from the same brand. I wonder what makes the difference. The materials has changed? The way they forge them changed?

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It probably is a myth. The forging methods used are still the same, just more modern equipment (electric air blowers instead of hand bellows) and they may now have grinders made from composites instead of just stone. One thing that may have changed is the standards. For example silver steel is defined by the British standards document BS1407. Steel that meets this standard is also called Sheffied Silver Steel.

There may have been a different standard used (or a standard may not have existed) back in the day. My guess is that modern methods of forging are superior to those used in the 1800s. Standards for things like razors, surgical tools etc are much higher than they once were.

Now you can probably buy cheap razors from China that are inferior to things made 100 years ago but a modern straight razor from a reputable manufacturer (think Dovo or Theirs-Isssard) will be as good, and probably better, than anything that has come before it (these manufacturers have long histories and reputations to uphold).

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That was day one. I read some say straight razors are not meant to be used everyday, is it true? Do I have to wait 48 hours till I can use it again?

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Completely mythical. It's a way to ensure that you buy two razors, not one.

One problem you have:

. . . You don't know if the razor is _really sharp_.

Yes, it was sharpened by an expert -- but razors are _not_ knives. The standards for "sharp" are quite different.

Wipe off the oil, hold the blade almost flat against your forearm, as though you were going to shave the hair off. Now, lift the blade about 1/8" _above_ your skin. Move the blade as though you were shaving your arm.

. . . If the blade catches and cuts arm hair _in the air_, it's sharp.

If it doesn't, it's dull. Either ask the seller to fix it (the easy path), or learn to hone it yourself (the hard path).

There's also an "experience factor". But even for an experienced shaver, a dull blade makes for a painful shave.


. Charles

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Originally Posted by Haroldg48

In short, it isn't the rinsing that is making it rust, it is not drying it completely before you close it. I leave mine out open on top of my dresser for 8-12 hours after shaving to ensure they are completely dry.

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That was how it went. I rinsed the blade with fairly hot water, then I wiped off water drops carefully with a piece of cloth, the stains appeared immediately at where the water drops were. In fact, I didn't have the chance to even close it or place it in poor ventilated location before the stains developed.

I did rinse it before shave to get rid of oil, and I rinsed lather off a few times during the shave, maybe that was long enough for stains to emerge.

I will try very hot water next time. Thanks a lot! :)

I put on one drop of gun oil on a piece of tissue paper and wipe the blade for long storage, it shouldn't rust that fast. A really hot water rinse lets the blade dry really fast, that's what works for me.

A highly acidic water or very salty water will do that. After my softener cycles it may happen. I have enough iron in my water to have a squirt gun considered a deadly weapon. Also, some common mouthwash products for teeth will stay on the water/sink as an oil and they will really do a fast number on steel. Yup; don't ask!
~Richard

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I did rinse it before shave to get rid of oil, and I rinsed lather off a few times during the shave, maybe that was long enough for stains to emerge.
I will try very hot water next time. Thanks a lot! :)

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Originally Posted by cpcohen1945

One problem you have:

. . . You don't know if the razor is _really sharp_.

Yes, it was sharpened by an expert -- but razors are _not_ knives. The standards for "sharp" are quite different.

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You have a point. Will try the sharpness test.

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

the "Knife Shop" probably didn't give you a trues shave ready edge, tc

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Started to think that way after my second trial.

That sharpness test should work without pulling or tugging the hair. It should be a easy cut

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Originally Posted by eddy79

That sharpness test should work without pulling or tugging the hair. It should be a easy cut

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I wish to know if everybody here has his razor passed the hanging hair test. I ask this question for an obvious reason, my razor failed it :(

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I wish to know if everybody here has his razor passed the hanging hair test. I ask this question for an obvious reason, my razor failed it :(

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No - shave test is the one that really matters. The HHT can be useful if calibrated against a known shave - ready blade, but on its own it can be a deceptive test. Different hair will yield different results as can the method used.

It can be a useful guide, but is not the ultimate test.

+1. I have never even TRIED the HHT. If I purchase a razor that is supposed to be shave-ready, then I shave with it. If it seems dull, I sharpen it, or send it to someone who can. I have no interest in whether my razors can cut some hair suspended before the edge. I only care if they cut the hairs on my face.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

Thanks Orville for asking. I got this Dovo 6/8 from a knife shop and have it honed right away by an expert.

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If the "expert" was from the knife shop, then it is unlikely that your razor was honed properly. You always want to ask two questions of the honer.
1. Does he use a straight razor himself?
2. Does he use any power equipment for the honing?

Unless the answers are yes to the first and no to the second, then you probably should look somewhere else for the honing.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I wish to know if everybody here has his razor passed the hanging hair test. I ask this question for an obvious reason, my razor failed it :(

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It may be helpful to watch some of the videos, particularly those by Lynn Abrams or Gssixgun, both of whom have done videos on shaving which are geared toward the less experienced. In addition, without wasting any more time, I'd send your razor to be honed by an experienced razor honer, many of whom can be found on this forum. Lastly, if you'd add your location to your visible profile, you may get some responses from experienced folks who are near to you. In the hands of someone inexperienced any test of whether a razor is sharp is kind of silly, because you have no reference point for how the test is done or what the results mean and SOME tests can actually dull a razor some.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I wish to know if everybody here has his razor passed the hanging hair test. I ask this question for an obvious reason, my razor failed it :(

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My experience -- my razors, my honing, my beard, my arm -- has been that if a razor didn't pass the test, it didn't shave well. If it did pass the test, it shaved OK. "OK" covers a range of sharpness; some razors (when I hone them) are sharper than others.

One nice thing about that test is that you don't need good lather, or good beard prep, or a just-right angle of the blade against your face. All those things can be problematic, for beginners.

The logic of the test is that it finds out whether the edge is sharp enough to fit between the keratin scales of your hair. "Sharp", here, is talking about the radius of the cross-section of the cutting edge. If the edge is dull - large radius-- it will slide over the hair. If it's sharp -- small radius -- it will get caught between the keratin scales on a single hair, and cut that hair.

As other responses say, there's a whole literature (online) about the "hanging-hair test" (of which this is one variant). Some people find it more useful than others. And you need to validate it -- yourself -- against your shaving experience.

. . . But you don't have much shaving experience, so you can't do that, yet.

I have sympathy for your situation. I had considerable trouble shaving with my first straight razor (which I honed myself), and wasn't sure what to blame. When I got a Dovo from Straight Razor Designs to compare it to, everything became clear:

. . . My "sharp" razor wasn't anywhere near as sharp as that properly-honed and stropped Dovo.

. Charles

Thanks a lot Charles, for sharing your experience, it is nothing but very constructive and helpful to me. I'm trying to learn here, I make mistakes, and will probably learn from them.

I will try getting hold of a shave ready razor to compare with when I have the chance to. And I will have to learn to hone and maintain my razor too, start doing some search on that soon. I can buy any new shave ready razor online any time, but sending it to the other side of the world to maintain it could be painful.

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Originally Posted by alfaspider75

I wish to know if everybody here has his razor passed the hanging hair test. I ask this question for an obvious reason, my razor failed it :(

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Nope, never really used the HHT . Then again my edges may not be the sharpest, good possibility that, but they give me a smooth comfortable and decently close shave.

Bob