Almost ready to give it up

Hi. My name is Bruce. Have had a couple of posts here and wanted to thank everybody. I've been using a straight for about two months now. Though I've gotten better and enjoy the process it seems like I hit a brick wall. Still can't get a shave as decent as my DE. So I say to myself a lot lately, why bother. There are so many factors that go into the process, I'm not sure where my problem is. Angle, lather, Stropping, who knows. I do know my Stropping needs improvement. Seen dozens of videos, but it's not like anyone can watch me. I'm trying to modify my technique, using less pressure, showing down, etc. But I'm pretty sure I'm not helping my edge. my cheeks come out fine but with under the nose and chin, no matter what I do, I get stubble. My question is, is such frustration common? How do I overcome it? Someone should open a school where you can learn this stuff LOL. That's for your help.

I was in your spot a couple years ago, and actually did walk away for awhile. However, I knew that it was something I wanted to master so I came back when I had a few days off in a row to "hone my skills":)
When it came to stropping, I bought myself a bench strop and set aside the hanging one until I was ready. This helped me learn to strop without destroying my strop and helped me not roll my edges.
As for shaving, I got a wedge and hollow both honed by a pro (to make sure I took out bad edge related problems) and just relearned! I went very slow and changed angles within the same shave to pinpoint my issues. I got some razor burn as a result, but it was worth it to see what angles my face liked best.
By no means am I an expert, but I can now get a nice close shave with no irritation in only a few minutes. Just keep at it and ask lots of questions!!
Oh and I almost forgot- I leave near Houston and there is a place where you can go get a straight razor shave. I did that and it was a help as well, you might want to give it a go if you live where that is an option.

Well Bruce, it is very common. Have you considered a shavette? You use a DE blade which eliminates the honing, stropping, ect. And let's you focus on other parts while enjoying the sharpness of a DE blade. Just a thought.

Just remember why you started in the first place. For me it was new, fun, challenging, relaxing at times when I wasn't shearing an ear from my head....

If you're not nicking your self or getting razor burn and your blade is sharp look at your expectations. I recently started with a de and the shaves are almost as close as with a shave and after only 5 shaves. I've been shaving exclusively with a straight for a year and it it took me six months to get as proficient as I am now with closeness of shaves. For me the de doesn't hold my attention or interest at near a level as a straight and I almost always have a CCS from a straight and I look forward to it more than ever but like I said it took 6 months to get to a place like that. The pay off is worth it, it just is not as quickly gratifying in the quality of shave as quickly as using a de, for me.

Keep trudging, sir, it's worth it.

Do a member search maybe you can find someone in your state that can hold your so to speak. And is your razor even sharp enough to shave with now? , if not your not going to make any progress,, but o e on one help is a great way to shorten the learning curve. Tc

Such frustration was certainly common for me when I started straight shaving in the 80's & advice was thin on the ground.
So 2 months is hardly a tribulation IME.
Is there any problem with finishing your shave with a DE until you learn from your mistakes ?

You can practice your stropping on a sigle sheet of newspaper suspended from a clip & you can use a pencil or toothbrush to practice the flip.
I bet you could have it perfect in 2 hours.

To confirm tc's advice above, it might be an idea to get the razor honed if you suspect your stropping is doing damage.

You can also put up a youtube video for critique of your stropping & maybe hunt down a mentor in your area ?

Don't beat yourself up about not getting perfect results. Your still new in the game and trust me on this that it will get better. Definitely find a mentor to help you if possible this will be the greatest thing you can do. You will need some one on one feedback on how your equipment is functioning and to evaluate your stropping and techniques. This is one of those things that when it finally comes together your pleasure and enthusiasm will go way up. After a few short years speaking for myself I have become very comfortable with SR Shaving, its a part of me and I look forward to every shave. I am glad I stuck out the rough spots in the learning curve and finally got it to where I am happy with the results. My first time around with SR shaving in the 80's ended in disaster because of no guidance and understanding of the equipment and lack of information on the subject. Nothing could of been more unpopular or more ridiculous than a straight razor in the 80's. I probably could of collected a basket of em back then not even the barbers wanted them much anymore. The art has been resurrected and couldn't be in a better state considering the equipment and guidance available these days for someone to take it up and succeed. Hang in there bro we'll get you there.

I started shaving with straight razors I bought from pro barbers in the mid 1980s. Got to the place where you are at and said the hell with it. Came back to it in 2007 through a friend who became enthusiastic about it. It took me months before I finally got a straight razor shave equal to a DE with a Feather. For some years now equal to DE, or better, is routine.

I jumped in with both feet and had some pro honed blades, some not. What had thwarted my 1980s attempt was the inability to hone. So this time around I worked on that continuously until I could.

If your able to shave the cheeks with no problem, but the neck, chin, jawline are the problem I would bet your razor isn't 'ready.' If you have a few shave ready in a rotation that is the best bet. Whether you learn to maintain them, or send them out, that is the ideal situation IME. :gl:

Seems that with the NY guys on here there should be a Mentor not too far from you BSANDY, both for shaving and Honing.

All of it depends on your level of commitment, lots of ways to go at this stage. Best and Happy Holidays.

oh I hear you all the way...I have the same problem areas as well. What I do now is this. I like using a DE but with a 24 hour old beard it pulls and is not the most comfy thing to shave with in the morning as you may well know. On my work days I don't have time for SR shave. What I do is this. I do a with the grain pass with the SR in the morning and don't worry about it being perfect. Then when I am done I go over it with the DE. The more you do something the better it will get down the road.

I am pretty proficient with my straight, now. Was where your at about 8 months ago. I am far from being an expert, but I would really suspect your edge is lacking. When one of my razors needs a refresh, I am still getting a pretty decent shave on my cheeks but the chin and neck are what tells me that it is time to refresh the blade. Just learning the state of your edge takes time, I'm still learning and that is one reason I enjoy a straight so much, it ain't easy.

I had no mentor to watch me and it took me about six months to really start doing a good job stropping. I started by hurting my edge, then not getting it any better but not hurting it and finally I was able to start improving my edge by stropping.

Keep trying and practicing and you will start getting great shaves, with just your straight. But as TC said go ahead and finish with your DE while you practice with your straight.

Don't give up, your most satisfying and close shaves are very near.

At two months I was still cleaning up with a modern razor. At three months, I was still cleaning up missed spots with a modern razor. It can be frustrating. What kept me coming back every day was how relaxing and enjoyable the whole process was for me.

If you are not enjoying yourself then maybe you should walk away from it for a while. Or just do it one day a week.

I wouldn't give up yet. It gets better. Straight razors can be frustrating. You've got to learn a ton of things and it takes time. If you put the time and effort in you will get the results you seek.

Like momma always said "effort in = results out"

It took me about a year to get a shave that I felt like WOW! I started with a Straight but also had a DE and a shavette. Go slow and build up certainty with practice. I dulled my first razor with bad stropping learned to fix it with data acquired here. Videos can help. But like others have said, don't rush it. You can notice getting better. If youre stuck check sharpness, technique, stropping, lathering. There are many factors that contribute to a great shave.

I've said it before...
Learning how to shave with a straight razor (the way we are learning) is like learning how to play the piano by correspondence course...
Not only is it a muscle memory exercise (and you don't really have a coach) but there are the variables...from lather to the all important edge and everything in between.

My breakout (about the place you are at now) was when I picked up a razor in the classifieds.
The razor was nothing fancy, a Chapplewhite Hardare Company (read: retail branded something from Solingen in the mid 1900s)
But it was the edge I was ready for..I could shave my chin in a smooth pass, my confidence shot up and "shave ready" really meant something to me for the first time.

Hope you can take a short break, look for some help and hang in there.
We are all enablers here so we will tell you it is worth the effort.

You can eliminate the edge question with a Feather SS, DX, RJ or something like it, but you will learn all you ever want to know about pressure, angle (low baby) and skin tension. Very YMMV.

Hope this comes together for you..

Common: yes, very common. Frustration is the oil that keeps us trying. We pressure ourselves to "be" straight razor shavers. Stick with the DE and come back to the straight when you want to. Remember that a shaving tool doesn't define who you are.

It seems so complicated at first (and I mean the first couple of months). It's like you're trying to fly a 747 without any instruction. Then, eventually someone, or an epiphany comes along, and it hits you. There is only a stick, throttle and pedals. All those other buttons are just fuses, and the navigation stuff is just there for guys that don't know where they are going. Straight shaving is the same. One thing that keeps you out of the game is making it too difficult. Or, rather, continuing to think its difficult.

First, you have to learn how to hone. The razor gets dull, a lot. If it's not sharp it won't be effective. A beginner with a straight razor has a thousand ways to dull a razor: stropping, shaving, drying it, etc. An expert can hone the razor biannually. He knows that one wrong angled pass is bad for his skin and the edge.

Second, it's gotta be stropped. Not stropped with the least pressure possible and the tightest strop on the planet. It's much easier than anyone gives it credit. Once the razor has been effectively honed, the razor can be stropped. Allow some slight deflection and use some pressure. Strop, the honed razor, effectively, NOT with trepidation, not daintily, but rather, strop -- like you mean it. To a beginner it often looks wild and careless. Check out my stropping video; you won't see any trepidation or concern about pressure. None! Why? I know I need the razor stropped and I know that it's not comfortable without being stropped effectively. Now, I know a thing or two about honing, and if I strop a razor that I've honed with no pressure, daintily, like a beginner might, I tear my face to shreds. The shave is terrible. Give me a little pressure and a little deflection all day long. That razor must be prepared to glide over your skin. In fact, it's about to.

The harder you make stropping in your mind the WORSE you'll strop.

Use a hot towel to prep your beard.

The actual shave with a straight razor is a whole different ball game from a DE. You need to secure the skin with you're off hand. The common wisdom is to stretch the skin, but it's actually better to put a little wave of skin in front of the razor. You need to prevent the skin from moving and pulling too tightly creates a concave hole that'll lead to irritation. Either way, the open blade has to pass over the secured skin, gently, and at an angle. Notice, I didn't say 30 degree angle? Again, we make it really hard, 30 degrees is optimal, yes, but it's hardly the end of the world to shave at 40 degrees, or 20, or even 10. You need to prevent the blade, with the first direct contact of any blade in your life, from controlling the skin. Your hand needs to hold the skin in place.

You need to shave lightly, but if the razor is honed right and stropped right, I can shave at 70- 80 degrees and use quite a bit of pressure and still get a decent shave. My point is not that you should try this at home, rather that you should know that a straight can tolerate much more inaccuracies than we give it credit, because "we" want you to learn the right way.

This need to secure the skin, use a light touch, and use the right angle (and even good prep requirements) begins to add doubt in our minds. Is the straight somehow ineffective for shaving? I don't need to do ANY of this stuff with a DE! No need to hone, strop, or even use good prep. No, it is very effective. It's sharper and smoother and more effective (in the right hands) than any DE. But, it's gotta be in the right hands and this is the coolest part of straight shaving.

So, do not fear using a DE, nor should you fear getting bad shaves from a straight. It's never an all in, or else, proposal. I use a DE to this day (but I often want to add that little bit of buttery smooth closeness you get from a straight). But, DEs are still a quick, easy, shave. Blades are still cheap.

The straight requires you to be able to hone, strop, and shave. Using a DE does not prepare you for honing or stropping; it does however, teach you the wrong way to shave with a straight razor. It gives you some bad habits. The safety bar on the DE is a crutch that acts like a "simple machine". It's magic. It secures the skin and produces a slight wave of skin just in front of the blade, which, thanks to the safety bar, is holding the blade pressure off your skin. Straights have none of that. The straight only has you. You've got to use your off hand as skillfully as the hand with the blade, perhaps even more so.

So, go back to your DE and do some more research, find someone to show you the straight shaving ropes, watch a master barber shave -- closely. Eventually, you'll start to get it. It'll take a while as long as there is too much swirling in your head when you do it. But, kick back a bit and stop trying too hard and it'll start to sink in.

It's no where near as hard as you think. It is three steps: honing, stropping, and shaving. All three are new to the beginner. All three need to be 80 percent correct. Don't get bogged down trying to make one piece 100% right, or even get frustrated because all three are not 100% right. Only when you get all three at least 80% right will you see how much superior the straight is over the DE. Most of the guys on this forum, and most of the guys who self-shave would find it easier to shave with a DE. There is no loss in choosing to shave exclusively with a DE. The straight razor will always be here when you want to come back and learn a little more about it.

Welcome to SRP

Getting with a Mentor or other knowledgable shaver will be a BIG help.

Here is a link to find one near Melville.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/memberlist.php?do=search

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Check out my stropping video

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Link please?

Braz

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Originally Posted by Braz

Link please?

Braz

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I think this is the one he is referring to:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/strop...ing-video.html

I was there just a week ago, I had the most horrible experience of my shaving life. I fealt as though I was a teenager who is shaving for the first time. I had the worst razor burn in the history of razor burn. My face looked like a plump juicy red apple.

I re-read a bunch of posts and tweaked a few things and followed advice. I tried again, concentrating on pressure mainly. I only did one pass with very light pressure. My pressure was so light it fealt unnatural and I thought there was no way I am taking off hair. It was comfortable though and I was surprised that I was shaving. I ended up with closer, more comfortable shave than I had to date with my straight. I have a lot more work and more practice but I fealt that I am actually moving forward.

Straight razor newbies can be pretty rough on an edge and I'll bet a touch up on the hones would get you over the hump. Send me a pm if interested.

Yup. It can be disheartening. But the upper lip and chin are _the hardest_ spots. So, look how close you are!

Whenever I would hit the wall as a relative beginner, I would send both my straights out for a good honing. Then, whatever else was going wrong, I _knew_ the edges were sharp. Once I was shaving well all over, I began managing my own touch-up honing. M

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by jrudd

I was there just a week ago, I had the most horrible experience of my shaving life. I fealt as though I was a teenager who is shaving for the first time. I had the worst razor burn in the history of razor burn. My face looked like a plump juicy red apple.

I re-read a bunch of posts and tweaked a few things and followed advice. I tried again, concentrating on pressure mainly. I only did one pass with very light pressure. My pressure was so light it fealt unnatural and I thought there was no way I am taking off hair. It was comfortable though and I was surprised that I was shaving. I ended up with closer, more comfortable shave than I had to date with my straight. I have a lot more work and more practice but I fealt that I am actually moving forward.

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I've been shaving with my straights for a year, and I still have trouble with this. No matter how many times I get a close and comfortable shave with little to no pressure, I always catch myself trying to revert to the old habit of relying on pressure instead of letting the razor do it's job. It's especially tempting when the blade gets to the point it needs a touch up and I'm feeling to lazy to re-strop with CrOx or take the razor back to the finishing hone for a few strokes.

Still, it beats any shave I ever got with a disposable, so I've stuck with it. With time and practice things will improve. I might suggest obtaining a barber's hone to make blade maintenance a little easier. Maybe take BeJay up on his offer. Don't give up on it Bruce. If you quit, the terrorists win!

You cant rush experience....a little but often...I know people on this site are sick of me saying this.
You will be fine. let us know in 2 months how much better the shave is.

Hang in there. It is a tough skill to acquire. You need to be sure the razor is sharp. If this is not a given, your attempt will not be a success.

I have heard it said that the first 100 shaves are the worst and after that you start getting really good at it. Keep going and you will be rewarded by amazing shaves.

If you have a hanging strop try laying it across a table making it a bench strop. Might work until you are more comfortable with it.

I started with a Hart Steel 7/8 razor. This was relatively easy to use and maintain on hanging strop. What type of razor do you use?
I recently bought a full hollow ground Bismark razor, which proved to be more difficult to handle on a hanging strop. The bigger razor proved to be far more forgiving and easier to shave with.
So equipment might play a small role?

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Originally Posted by DduckyMark

I have heard it said that the first 100 shaves are the worst and after that you start getting really good at it. Keep going and you will be rewarded by amazing shaves.

If you have a hanging strop try laying it across a table making it a bench strop. Might work until you are more comfortable with it.

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I agree - 100 shaves is a good benchmark - and if, like me, you're shaving 3 or 4 times a week - do the math and basically it's a full year to really get it down pat - which aligns perfectly with my experience - the journey is the fun part, don't dwell on the destination...the good and great shaves will happen, and after awhile, they'll just get more consistent.

Remember , relax and enjoy yourself!

Just keep on shaving. You are just beginning to get comfortable with the process after 2 months. For me it was a full year of daily shaving with a straight before I felt like the shave I got was superior to any other shave I could get. Now after 8 years I wouldn't think of shaving any other way. You just have to persist and enjoy the journey.