ATG Blood Bath

Hi, today I wanted to shave as usual. I have a couple months experience and usually get off 3 passes + fix with little to none razor burn and some occasional nick. Today was a different story. I have in my collection an awesome Nate's Straight 11/16 1/4 hollow barbers notch. Shaved with it once before because until I feel I improved enough I'll be using my dovo and unknown name razor. I decided to use the NS for the second time like a special occasion. Stropped the smiling edge 100 times and here we go. I lately do a cold shave because I feel it's closer and less razor burn for me. Washed my face with some soap first and applied my lather. WTG went incredibly nice and smooth due to the weight of the blade I assume. XTG similar story. My hair under the jaw grows from right to left all the way (Lucky you if it grows other than horizontal :D ) I began with the left side clearing the cheek and to get it ATG under the jaw line I stretch it upwards by pulling up by the cheek. It works with the dovo prima 5/8 and it works with the unknown manufacturer 5/8 full hollow I restored and honed myself. But this time with this blade it was more painful than usual going up the stream. I think I couldn't stop myself from going again without the lather to fix it because it didn't feel right. I wiped the blade on the tissue and was shocked about the width of the blade covered in a thin line of blood. Had some spots in that area with the blood soaking slightly as well. Finished the other cheek ATG and bailed on the rest because of what happened. I found that more of my face was red from razor burn. Since I began it never was this bad. My face feels like I shaved it with 80 grit sandpaper :D (At least that spot painful as it is feels kind of BBS :P )

Does anyone have any suggestions to what might have caused this incident? The blade was heavier and I feel like I used little to none pressure on it. Is it too sharp? Could pulling too hard on the skin to stretch it have caused the issue? My other str8s I hone 12k then diamond 0.5 and 0.25 on the wool felt.

Maybe the blade is stiff because it's 1/4 hollow and it's less forgiving? I'm kind of confused right here. Would be a shame though because I have a nice restored George Wostenholm near wedge 6/8 coming in with blue Paua scales :D

Sorry about the big wall of text but if you see something else wrong I'd appreciate your input :) Thank You.

Tom

I have a theory:

That edge isn't honed right. If it is honed perfectly you can act like an idiot and not get an ounce of irritation- notice I didn't say not cut. You can cut yourself if your super careless with a perfect edge, but you can be a cowboy with a super smooth refined edge and not get irritation. I'm not there, and I didn't see you hone- but I'll put my money on this:

"Stropped the smiling edge 100 times and here we go."
"My other str8s I hone 12k then diamond 0.5 and 0.25 on the wool felt."

That's a lot of stropping. .25 and .5 micron diamonds are super small and sharp- they cut very deep for their size and my guess is you don't take ample precautions earlier with the stuff (it's kind of like handling lead paint- your finger pads, tools (razor) all need to be decontaminated before the next stage. a couple tiny diamonds get on your clean leather and it's game over. 100 strops with errant diamond particles can cause edge damage that'd make the bevel's edge look like a bandsaw. get new leathers, rehone and reattempt. only 5 passes tops on felt with that diamond stuff too by the way, in case you weren't already aware- it's like caulk, fine for painted board seams, but it's not a board replacement- little or none. The blades are about the same width so your technique shouldn't be 100% to blame- even a bad angle shouldn't tear your skin up- that edge is full of teeth. You can get new leathers- get a scope and look at the edge, or strop the hell out of a good shaving razor and see how it performs to test this.

Other theory would be that the water was too cold- goose pimpled flesh isn't smooth at the hair follicle- take a sharp edge over a bumpy surface and one of the two has got to give as far as the blood on your neck.-that could contribute- but it's the edge, as you said your whole face feels like that and you didn't cold water atg your whole face.

good luck:beer1:

Sounds like too much pressure and angle, but if you're doing well with the other two razors in your rotation you may want to take a look at the edge, could be some rough spots on the blade. If you don't see anything under magnification try shaving again with it and paying better attention to pressure and angle.

There is no such thing as too sharp or over stropping. Unnecessarily using pastes and too much pressure, yes.

I am thinking back to the beginning and pressure, angle, lather, and stretching and holding were super important for me to pay attention too. The edge is also important and stropping with diamonds has never been in my routine, so i cannot help with that but the other comments about contamination and over using them sound plausible

The ones I touch with the diamond stuff seem to be fine as I mentioned. This one I never honed. It came honed from Nate Zowada I assume from the box. Last time actually I remember I think I shaved with it after a super hot shower and my beard was so soft that I didn't really have a good time with that shave :D razor burn... But maybe it could be something with the edge. This is the second time I had it rough with that razor but not to this level. Probably blamed it on the hot prep. When I finished honing my others I wipe them thoroughly after each step so I wouldn't think any diamonds got on my new paddle strop. Good point though on the diamond spray passes. I might be going a little overkill on them when I'm finishing but it still seemed OK when shaving.

Anyway the edge always was scary sharp and since it's a smiling and I'm freaked out about even trying to hone that beauty I stropped it 100 times as to keep the edge sharp as long as I could. My honing is still at the beginners luck phase (or maybe I'm a natural haha) as I'm still learning a lot so I'll probably mess around with the other vintage blades I'm cleaning and honing prior to even considering setting a new bevel on this one.

Depending how my face recovers I'll give it another shot next time and see what's going on. The angle for going ATG should be smaller than the rest right? Around 1-1.5 spine thickness from the face? It's heavier so maybe it's also the pressure problem because its harder to get a feel of it with some more mass to control :D

Yeah I would work on the cold and light pressure thing. Don't change up too much at once and you will nail the reason for the bloodshed down faster.

If it was 100 laps with diamond paste, that could be the problem. Go back to 12k and no diamond, shouldn't be needed. If it was 100 laps on plain leather, could be the edge not there or bad technique. Had many a bad shave starting out, most with a freshly honed razor. Some just smooth out after the 2nd or 3rd shave after lots of laps on plain leather, some went back to the hones. Part of the fun.

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Originally Posted by Tomakao

The ones I touch with the diamond stuff seem to be fine as I mentioned. This one I never honed. It came honed from Nate Zowada I assume from the box. Last time actually I remember I think I shaved with it after a super hot shower and my beard was so soft that I didn't really have a good time with that shave :D razor burn... But maybe it could be something with the edge. This is the second time I had it rough with that razor but not to this level. Probably blamed it on the hot prep. When I finished honing my others I wipe them thoroughly after each step so I wouldn't think any diamonds got on my new paddle strop. Good point though on the diamond spray passes. I might be going a little overkill on them when I'm finishing but it still seemed OK when shaving.

Anyway the edge always was scary sharp and since it's a smiling and I'm freaked out about even trying to hone that beauty I stropped it 100 times as to keep the edge sharp as long as I could. My honing is still at the beginners luck phase (or maybe I'm a natural haha) as I'm still learning a lot so I'll probably mess around with the other vintage blades I'm cleaning and honing prior to even considering setting a new bevel on this one.

Depending how my face recovers I'll give it another shot next time and see what's going on. The angle for going ATG should be smaller than the rest right? Around 1-1.5 spine thickness from the face? It's heavier so maybe it's also the pressure problem because its harder to get a feel of it with some more mass to control :D

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Makes things clearer. Shouldn't need to see the hone for 50+ shaves once you have your stropping down pact. Maybe put that razor away till you are more accustomed to stropping and shaving.

The fun of trying to get it just right is what keeps me going :) Never thought it would be easy but oh my is it satisfying! I have another strop that had a tough beginners time so maybe I'll strop on that one next time see how it goes. Unfortunately it has some wrinkles on the ends but some lather, hot water bottle and some neatsfoot oil seemed to kind of fix half of it. I got myself the exchangeable paddle strop specifically for honing and finishing but yeah... I used that leather for this one. Who knows maybe some diamonds got through. I hope not :) I'll inspect the edge during the day to see what's going on.

It gets better, went from trashing a shave ready razor with just a strop to getting 80+ shaves off the hones with just a strop. A loupe helps a lot when you are starting out, and are cheap.

Maybe your edges aren't quite as sharp as Nates', leading to little pressure when using your own and Nates needs none. I've done this with my own vs hatzicho's edges. Answer was multiple shaves with the pro honed razor and I learned how much pressure to use with a properly sharp edge. Just a possibility, I'm no master.

I took a look at the edge and myself except some tiny scratches towards the end would think it's flawless. Took some photos for you guys maybe you can make something out from them. Without a digital microscope it's the best I can do :D


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Unfortunately those photos aren't high res enough to tell much, but dmnc's hypothesis seems reasonable. It's also possible that you damaged the edge accidentally while stropping; that sort of damage wouldn't be visible until about 400x. I did that a few times when I was learning. Smiling blades can be more sensitive to the strop since a smaller segment of the blade is in contact, and that was a lot of passes on the strop, I rarely need to give a razor that many laps on the strop until it's 5-6 months out from the hone.

Today despite some irritation left on that left side of the jaw I decided to give that straight from Nate another go. 33 laps on a different SRD strop with wool felt right before that. Used Art of Shaving cream this time with a thick lather. Went on a cold shave but not that cold. I might say slightly warm. Tried to use no pressure like my life depended on it. So little that sometimes the blade would skip over a spot. Just taking off the lather with the edge. WTG - fine, XTG on the neck twice and one face - fine (because of the growth going with the grain is as hard as against the grain on the neck for me so I go XTG from both sides without any issues)

Skipped the ATG under the nose which somehow had burn already like yesterday. I did a pass ATG in the same spot that I had bloodshed yesterday and it wasn't the most comfortable pass but it went through without blood this time using just a little perpendicular stretching. The same cannot be told about the right side of the face which I bailed on yesterday. I went gently at first with the stretching and kind of got a pass. I stretched a little harder because was not satisfied with the area and how the blade cut over it. One pass and here come the blood spots. No pressure whatsoever. Like the edge is a feral dog and bites in whatever it touches. Would be happier if it actually was smooth after that pass.

The smoothness of the shave was not satisfactory to me. Had much better. No BBS spots ATG at all. Anywhere. The rest of the passes is great. Smooth with and across the grain to the touch. Something is still very wrong and I can't figure out what.

I never go ATG! I get a smooth enough shave without doing it.

Well if the other full hollows work ATG with just some technique missing for right neck side it would sure be nice to know why this razor isn't.

My advice to you is don't shave for at least three days and give your skin a chance to heal. During this time apply some ointments preferably some kind of aloe. Then give it another shot and pay extra attention to angle and pressure.

The beard on my neck also grows horizontally, left to right. I installed a pantograph-articulated and illuminated mirror at the sink, and put it above my head to shave ATG in my neck. Yes, I shave my neck looking upwards. The "sleeping potoo" or "indoor roofing job" position.
I don't do this often, just in special occasions. My everyday shave is "socially enough" type.

Yeah ,,, what he said. Let your face heal. I get the challenge but you have to give yourself a chance.

Your trying to put a puzzle together 6 pieces at a time :<0)

I have found that no matter what razor I am shaving with my skin has its limits. I most often do 2 1/2 passes and that is it, or my skin gets irritated and I get weepers. Most of the time most of my shave is fantastic with a few patches of very passable. There is a limit to the number of people who touch my face, everyone else can;t see the difference

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Originally Posted by Matheus

The beard on my neck also grows horizontally, left to right. I installed a pantograph-articulated and illuminated mirror at the sink, and put it above my head to shave ATG in my neck. Yes, I shave my neck looking upwards. The "sleeping potoo" or "indoor roofing job" position.

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This... This gave me one of those "Why didn't I think of that earlier" moments. I tried shaving with my chin up but not to that extent. This might be what's missing from the BBS I'm aiming for because I can't seem to get that spot right under the jaw on the right side. I'll try that in a couple of days when my skin has some recovery time.

Patience is not my strong suit but I decided to shave again today as everything except that left spot from yesterday was in pretty good shape. Not the case right now though :D Few days off it is. About that BBS neck. As I am still perfecting my neck shave I'm thriving to become good at ATG while I can afford the nicks and burns so that when a special occasion comes I can nail it. I think in the near future a 2 XTG pass on the neck should be more than acceptable for me :)

I would like to thank everybody for the help as of right now :) Learned something new as usual.

The added bonus of using a straight is that it will teach you patience. OR you will die trying :<0)

I'm a newb. I tend to make all my mistakes on the 2nd or 3rd pass. After a successful first pass, I gain false confidence and that's when I hack my face up. I think I might stick to just 1 pass for a while and take my time with that pass.

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Originally Posted by jeffrx

I'm a newb. I tend to make all my mistakes on the 2nd or 3rd pass. After a successful first pass, I gain false confidence and that's when I hack my face up. I think I might stick to just 1 pass for a while and take my time with that pass.

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In my case the first pass is pretty straightforward. But the second pass I have yet to master. I don't have a problem with getting cuts while doing it. Right now it's finding the most efficient technique while changing things up slightly every time to see what's working but usually end up with a good pass. The third pass I've been doing since the first ever shave with a straight. Couple months and still trying to figure out spots on the neck. If you're cautious and take your time to concentrate (I lock myself in the bathroom for some private time) you probably will have a much lesser chance of cutting yourself. I love losing the feel of time when shaving. Get my best shaves when I have the time and calmness to figure out the best way through. (Just this Nate's razor seems to have a grudge on me.) Good luck, keep calm and have fun :D



I got my hands on a USB Digital Microscope and took some picture of the blade. This is the middle from both sides. Not really exactly the other side in the same spot but it cant be that different. I'll add more photos per request. What do you guys think about the edge?

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