According to Dovo, I'm doing it ALL wrong...

DOVO - Masterpieces in steel - Interesting facts -

Whoa. I just read this on Dovo's FAQ. I've already read up on the whole "resting" thing, but how can the common knowledge here, be SO different than what the manufacturer suggests? To wit:

"1. How do I look after the straight razor?
The straight razor must be properly looked after in order to ensure the maintenance and long life of this traditional men's accessory. While straight razors made of stainless steel are less demanding, other razors have to be rinsed with clear water and thoroughly dried after each use. When not in use for longer periods, it is recommended that the razor be rubbed with light oil. Likewise, the razor should not be stored in a damp and unaired state. There is no generally valid rule for the whetting (stropping) of straight razors; in many cases, it is sufficient to draw the razor lightly over the ball of the thumb, especially when it has been left unused for several days between shaves. Wet shavers of the old school know that the facet (blade) "grows", i.e. the microscopically discernible and extremely fine "fin" on the cutting edge changes during the shave but returns to its old position afterwards; it stretches and again becomes extremely fine. Nevertheless, this fine "fin" will still wear away at some stage and a suitable strop should then be bought.
There is no common rule for sharpening of razors; sometimes it is sufficient to sharpen it at the ball of the thumb, especially if the razor is not used for several days. People, who often use razors, know: the cutting edge is growing, meaning that the very fine burr on the cutting edge (which can be seen under the microscope) changes whenever the razor is used, but it finally goes back to its old position and will become very fine again. Nevertheless the burr will wear out after a certain period of time, and then the suitable razor strop should be bought."

"5. The straight razor I bought a short time ago no longer shaves properly. Do I have to whet it, and how often is this necessary?
DOVO straight razors are whetted in the factory for use (whetting on leather by hand). If you own a suitable strop, you should nevertheless take into account that the razor must first "rest" after use. After the razor has been carefully rinsed and dried, it should not be used again for at least 24 - 48 hours because the fine "fin" on the cutting edge straightens up again extremely slowly. If the razor is stropped too soon (or stropped incorrectly by moving it backwards and forwards without turning it over), the "fin" which is necessary for a close shave breaks off. Between six and fifteen shaves are possible without stropping in between." (emphasis mine)

Wow. First, I typically fabric strop my carbon razor 30 laps after shaving, to dry it, and heat it to further dry the small grooves, etc., that the cloth can't reach. Just to prevent corrosion. Then I strop it 30 laps on the bridle leather, to save me time on my next shave, where I do it another couple fabrics, and then 30 more on the leather.

According to my first bolded quote, I am ruining the "fin"? It stretches and straightens for a lengthy period after I have shaved?

And the second emphasis I added. THAT certainly, pardon the pun, goes against the grain of what I have read here. Six to Fifteen shaves without stropping? Are we doing it wrong?!http://www.dovo.com/bilder/home.gif

There are plenty of threads on this subject. I strop 10 or so laps after a shave to remove soap and help dry and clean the edge, seems to work.

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Originally Posted by Grazor

There are plenty of threads on this subject. I strop 10 or so laps after a shave to remove soap and help dry and clean the edge, seems to work.

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Agreed, and I've read quite a few, albeit likely not all. I think the thing that stuns me most, is the "6-15 shaves before stropping"?

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Originally Posted by Moueix

Agreed, and I've read quite a few, albeit likely not all. I think the thing that stuns me most, is the "6-15 shaves before stropping"?

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The "stropping incorrectly" part is certainly true, don't ask me how I know...
My youngest son went 4 or 5 shaves before stropping for the first time, so maybe it is possible.
What I can say is once you get it right you can maintain your razor for a long time with just leather, have a couple with well over 70 shaves on them now.

If I'm not mistaken, Dovo gave different advise some time back. I think some new age shaver, not of the old school, has rewritten their advice/help page. This advice is useless for a daily shaver and is geared more towards theory, not practice.
Stay in the real world and just do what works for you!

I rinse my razor under water and dry it well. Strop 5-10 times on linen and leather and return it to my rotation of seven razors. Never a problem.

As grazor said, there are a pile of threads about this topic already.
I don't feel that the advice is particularly sound but it might be interesting for someone (not me) to try it.

Personally I would just follow their instructions to the letter, and prove it to yourself, then down the line when this question comes back around you can answer it from experience with conviction :)

But yes most of us have found that stropping before a shave yields a better result

I stopped reading their BS when it said it was honed shave ready at the factory...
Somebody with a full beard that hasn't shaved in 50 years wrote those "helpful" instructions.

That is why you can't put much faith in Dovo,s instructions, they claim the razor they just sold you is shave ready! Plus let's think about it, why did a barber need a strop during the day? He could have just shaved a few people before wasting his time on stropping, I've done the test, I skipped the linen for a bit and then even skipped the leather a couple times ( left strop at home). The shave was not up to par. YMMV. Tc

Sounds like some old wives got together and had a bs competition.

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Originally Posted by Moueix

[B][U]Wet shavers of the old school know that the facet (blade) "grows",

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Does this mean my razors will get bigger? Wow I might have to eventually get out my toe nail clippers and trim them back to width.
:rofl2:

Maybe it's me, but I never thought about stropping a razor by drawing it lightly across the ball of my thumb. Not much room for error there!

Pete <:-}

Seems to me that we have a newcomer casting aspersions about a recognised manufacturer without the benefit of anything to gauge their performance against.

Please tell us how many different razors you have shaved with, how many strops you have and just how much experience you have generally with straight razors that gives you the right to criticise a well known make.

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Originally Posted by UKRob

Seems to me that we have a newcomer casting aspersions about a recognised manufacturer without the benefit of anything to gauge their performance against.

Please tell us how many different razors you have shaved with, how many strops you have and just how much experience you have generally with straight razors that gives you the right to criticise a well known make.

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Are you referring to my original post?

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Originally Posted by petercp4e

Maybe it's me, but I never thought about stropping a razor by drawing it lightly across the ball of my thumb. Not much room for error there!

Pete <:-}

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Yah, that sounds a lil dangerous to ME too!

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

That is why you can't put much faith in Dovo,s instructions, they claim the razor they just sold you is shave ready! Plus let's think about it, why did a barber need a strop during the day? He could have just shaved a few people before wasting his time on stropping, I've done the test, I skipped the linen for a bit and then even skipped the leather a couple times ( left strop at home). The shave was not up to par. YMMV. Tc

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The issue of "Shave Ready" I am going to definitely sort for myself. My first razor comes from SRD, with a pro Lynn honing. I purchased an inexpensive but effective microscope, and documented the edge as thoroughly as possible at 370x. I now have some new Dovo's coming from another source, factory "shave ready". I will also take numerous pictures of THAT edge. They will all be in my store of images if anyone is interested in comparing. In addition, I am close enough to my first SRD honed blade, and these "factory shave ready" blades, to be able to discern the difference.

I am the curious sort, and truly like to know the difference between rain, and someone peeing down my neck. I'll have the answer to THIS question for myself, very soon. In fact, right after Daytona Bike week, when I get home to my new gear.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Personally I would just follow their instructions to the letter, and prove it to yourself, then down the line when this question comes back around you can answer it from experience with conviction :)

But yes most of us have found that stropping before a shave yields a better result

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You jest, but I AM going to try it. Well, not the stropping on my thumb part. There's a difference between curiosity, and stupidity. That part alone, somewhat makes the entire FAQ suspect, in my eyes. But who knows?! I've been collecting and enjoying fine wines for 35 years. I've seen a lot of "old wives tales" both debunked, and confirmed.

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Originally Posted by Moueix

The issue of "Shave Ready" I am going to definitely sort for myself. My first razor comes from SRD, with a pro Lynn honing. I purchased an inexpensive but effective microscope, and documented the edge as thoroughly as possible at 370x. I now have some new Dovo's coming from another source, factory "shave ready". I will also take numerous pictures of THAT edge. They will all be in my store of images if anyone is interested in comparing. In addition, I am close enough to my first SRD honed blade, and these "factory shave ready" blades, to be able to discern the difference.

I am the curious sort, and truly like to know the difference between rain, and someone peeing down my neck. I'll have the answer to THIS question for myself, very soon. In fact, right after Daytona Bike week, when I get home to my new gear.

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Will be interesting to see results. It is all very subjective though, depending how many shaves you have completed and how competent you are. The only true test is the shave test, observing the edge through a 370x microscope will most likely look like you are about to shave with a bandsaw...

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Originally Posted by Moueix

You jest, but I AM going to try it. Well, not the stropping on my thumb part. There's a difference between curiosity, and stupidity. That part alone, somewhat makes the entire FAQ suspect, in my eyes. But who knows?! I've been collecting and enjoying fine wines for 35 years. I've seen a lot of "old wives tales" both debunked, and confirmed.

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There is zero jest in that post...

When in doubt try it yourself, and learn for yourself...
better yet with owning a scope you can document the deterioration after each shave, and the resting period repair...

There are quite a few of these experiments of course already on here but the more data points the better
Oddly enough TI also has some odd thoughts on razor care which I have copied to a file someplace and will post as soon as I can find them


Edit: Had to re-scan it for ya

Attachment 229823

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

There is zero jest in that post...

When in doubt try it yourself, and learn for yourself...
better yet with owning a scope you can document the deterioration after each shave, and the resting period repair...

There are quite a few of these experiments of course already on here but the more data points the better

Oddly enough TI also has some odd thoughts on razor care which I have copied to a file someplace and will post as soon as I can find them

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\

Inquiring minds, There are far too few in this world.. I love to stand on the shoulders of giants, but first I must graduate to navel position. ;)

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Originally Posted by Grazor

Will be interesting to see results. It is all very subjective though, depending how many shaves you have completed and how competent you are. The only true test is the shave test, observing the edge through a 370x microscope will most likely look like you are about to shave with a bandsaw...

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The images I've seen of comprehensive blade studies, are WELL beyond 370x magnification. Best that 370x can accomplish, is reflecting the mirrored edge plus "scars" from less than successful atom splitting. :) I have no idea what magnification I'm looking at when looking at the micron views I've seen, but it is WAY more than 370x. :)

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Originally Posted by Moueix

The images I've seen of comprehensive blade studies, are WELL beyond 370x magnification. Best that 370x can accomplish, is reflecting the mirrored edge plus "scars" from less than successful atom splitting. :) I have no idea what magnification I'm looking at when looking at the micron views I've seen, but it is WAY more than 370x. :)

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Well, best of luck with that. If you manage to split an atom, no doubt I will hear it from here. Anything you can view above that is irrelevant, after all it is only shaving.

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Originally Posted by Moueix

You jest, but I AM going to try it. Well, not the stropping on my thumb part. There's a difference between curiosity, and stupidity. That part alone, somewhat makes the entire FAQ suspect, in my eyes. But who knows?! I've been collecting and enjoying fine wines for 35 years. I've seen a lot of "old wives tales" both debunked, and confirmed.

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The only issue you will have is if your stropping is up to par. Most do t really improve their edge in the beginning and really after a few months their just starting to get there. So if you nature is to test, you might want to get them stropped by an experienced user. Not saying your stropping ain't good, but most at your level is not. Good luck. Tc
Oh and by the way I know when someone is peeing on my back, versus rain.

I tried shaving a few times in a row without stropping to see how it went...and it was not good! As mentioned, there are lots of threads on this topic. I was curious so I tried varying my stropping routine and material and also the above mentioned skipping stropping. The best advice I can give you is to experiment and see what works best for your razor and your face:)

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

But yes most of us have found that stropping before a shave yields a better result

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:tu Yep! A gazillion barbers over the past couple hundred years can't be all wrong.

I've done this. When I first started, I had not found this site. I got to around 8-10 shaves with out stropping on a "Factory Shave Ready" edge. I was pretty frustrated, until I educated myself on this site. I am a man of many words, but to describe what that felt like would require utilizing parts of the English language that would get me banned in 1 post. Possibly even shot. The only non-curse words would be "spice grater." Suffice it to say, this is not something I recommend.

Got back from Daytona Bike week yesterday to find my new "factory shave ready" Dovo Encina AND factory shave ready Boker Tree Brand Inox in my mail pile. Put them under the 'scope and compared the pics of the edges with those of the SRD Lynn Abrams honed Pearlex I took when I got that in.

TOTAL agreement. Vast difference in the edges. BOTH brands look to have been wheel honed, and the edges might shave, but as jagged as they were, I wasn't going to try em. Did about 20 circles a side on a Hard Arkansas Opaque and then about 10 X laps on that 2" x 6" stone with both of em. Hit em with 7 laps on a Crox pasted hard pressed wool strop, then gave them both 30 laps on wool, and 60 laps on English Bridle. Shaved one side with the 6/8 Encina, the other side of my face with the 5/8 Inox Boker. Indistinguishable between the two for comfort and closeness, and the best darn shave I have gotten yet. Had to touch up a couple spots with an XTG but that was it. Super smooth.

So yeah, Factory Shave Ready isn't something I'm EVER going to try, but it IS a terrific beginning looking for just a proper finishing touch. Was no big deal to get em wicked.

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Originally Posted by Brenngun

:tu Yep! A gazillion barbers over the past couple hundred years can't be all wrong.

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I do the same. 30 strokes on the felt and 60 strokes on the leather before every shave.

Just received a Dovo Bismarck that said in the instructions daily stropping will keep you new razor shaving for months.

The advice there sounds like it's from one of the early 1800s treatises on razors.