Is it possible to be TOO vertical?

Hi everyone:

I am pretty new, and I've been experimenting with shaving on my cheek. I am using a Le Grelot frameback razor, and I originally thought I was not vertical enough on my downward strokes. After some recommendations, I was advised (another thread) that it's not bad if you can feel the spine of the razor against your skin as you make your strokes.

So, I've tried this a bit (almost 100% vertical), and it doesn't seem to cut hair very well. I'm wondering if perhaps now I've gone too far the other direction. My question is: "Is it possible to hold your razor with too SMALL of an angle against the skin?" If I hold my razor so the spine doesn't touch my skin (i.e. it's about 1-2 spine widths off of my cheek), it seems to cut hair quite a bit better.

There IS an optimal angle. It rarely is with the spine against the skin and it's rarely out as far as 30 degrees. Somewhere in between there is a sweet spot that changes for almost every part of your face. Just as your body makes unconscious imperceptible adjustments to balance while riding a bike, the same thing happens when you shave. That is, after a lot of practice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Utopian

There IS an optimal angle. It rarely is with the spine against the skin and it's rarely out as far as 30 degrees. Somewhere in between there is a sweet spot that changes for almost every part of your face. Just as your body makes unconscious imperceptible adjustments to balance while riding a bike, the same thing happens when you shave. That is, after a lot of practice.

---

+1... What he said!

I wouldn't know,,, I'm only 5"5" :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I wouldn't know,,, I'm only 5"5" :(

---

You are the size of a small figurine!! :dropjaw:

,,,,,:roflmao

Some of the old boxes that razors came in have instructions on the inside of the box. Something like "Start with the razor flat against your face and lift until it cut properly." Well something like that anyway :<0)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I wouldn't know,,, I'm only 5"5" :(

---

NOW THAT'S HUMERUS!!! :rofl2::rofl2::rofl2:

Attachment 233932

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 10Pups

Some of the old boxes that razors came in have instructions on the inside of the box. Something like "Start with the razor flat against your face and lift until it cut properly." Well something like that anyway :<0)

---

"Virtually flat" or "As flat as possible" is some of the advice.
Here ya go:
http://straightrazorpalace.com/shavi...ng-basics.html

If the spine is flat on your face the torque must bias toward the edge. If it is on the spine you are effectively lifting the edge .

On my neck the whiskers grow particularly flat to my skin and are almost impossible to shave with the grain. I get those ones against the grain. Angle is important.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hirlau

I wouldn't know,,, I'm only 5"5" :(

---

Is that tall or wide?

!,!,,!,,,,,,, :beer2:

I've been dialing in the angle on various spots of face and neck since shave #1. Folks aren't kidding with 100 shave rule. Cheeks are BBS daily but lots of room for improvement on my neck. Still making progress, and still loving my daily shave. :gl:

In getting to those 100 shaves, is it better to just leave the hair on your face after a couple of passes (or maybe use a different style razor), or keep going until you get the desired result? For instance, around the chin and just under the jawline, it takes me 4-5 passes to really get it to where I would say it's comfortably smooth. My skin doesn't really like the fact that I go over this many times, of course, but I feel like if I just leave it and come back another day, I don't have as much ability to experiment. If I keep going today (to an extent), I feel like I can compare different strokes... E.g. "Ok, I was at a really steep angle of 4 or 5 degrees and that didn't work, so let's see if 8 or 9 degrees will work better".

I'm just wondering what others do - is it better to just keep practicing until your skin can't take it, or give up early and wait for the next shave to practice more?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jwir3

In getting to those 100 shaves, is it better to just leave the hair on your face after a couple of passes (or maybe use a different style razor), or keep going until you get the desired result? For instance, around the chin and just under the jawline, it takes me 4-5 passes to really get it to where I would say it's comfortably smooth. My skin doesn't really like the fact that I go over this many times, of course, but I feel like if I just leave it and come back another day, I don't have as much ability to experiment. If I keep going today (to an extent), I feel like I can compare different strokes... E.g. "Ok, I was at a really steep angle of 4 or 5 degrees and that didn't work, so let's see if 8 or 9 degrees will work better".

I'm just wondering what others do - is it better to just keep practicing until your skin can't take it, or give up early and wait for the next shave to practice more?

---

You could also finish up with a DE...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jwir3

In getting to those 100 shaves, is it better to just leave the hair on your face after a couple of passes (or maybe use a different style razor), or keep going until you get the desired result? For instance, around the chin and just under the jawline, it takes me 4-5 passes to really get it to where I would say it's comfortably smooth. My skin doesn't really like the fact that I go over this many times, of course, but I feel like if I just leave it and come back another day, I don't have as much ability to experiment. If I keep going today (to an extent), I feel like I can compare different strokes... E.g. "Ok, I was at a really steep angle of 4 or 5 degrees and that didn't work, so let's see if 8 or 9 degrees will work better".

I'm just wondering what others do - is it better to just keep practicing until your skin can't take it, or give up early and wait for the next shave to practice more?

---

I finish up with my DE, but I always spend at least a little time on my neck trying to find a way that works well, otherwise I'll never become proficient there. I've done fairly well at making progress while not going so far as to feel like I'm shaving with 80 grit sandpaper.
The progress is slow, but I am improving on almost every shave and that's what matters to me. It's the journey not the destination and all that :gl:

I'd say just leave it and don't over do it because it just leads to irritation.

When I started (not that long ago!) I did two passes (WTG & XTG) initially and forgot about tying for BBS! Just because it would be too much for my skin with my piss poor technique. Once I was getting only minimal irritation from those two passes I added the third, which put my irritation levels back up high but not for very long as I worked on the correct blade angles in that direction. Soon I was getting three passes with BBS above the jaw line and little to know irritation. All I had to do then was refine the technique/positions/angles on my neck to get that all round BBS. Still working on that part but shave are all dam fine with very little to no irritation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sxot

I'd say just leave it and don't over do it because it just leads to irritation.

When I started (not that long ago!) I did two passes (WTG & XTG) initially and forgot about tying for BBS! Just because it would be too much for my skin with my piss poor technique. Once I was getting only minimal irritation from those two passes I added the third, which put my irritation levels back up high but not for very long as I worked on the correct blade angles in that direction. Soon I was getting three passes with BBS above the jaw line and little to know irritation. All I had to do then was refine the technique/positions/angles on my neck to get that all round BBS. Still working on that part but shave are all dam fine with very little to no irritation.

---

Yeah, so, I originally did that. In fact, I would originally just go WTG on my cheek (as Lynn suggests in his videos). The problem I was facing was that there was so little to actually shave that I would be done in 2 minutes or so, and then I had to wait another day or two before I could try again, by which time I had forgotten the angle that I used previously, which was causing me to feel like I was starting over each shave.

As for BBS, I really am not going for that. I'm just trying to replicate what my cartridge shave can do (which is reasonably smooth, but not BBS). On my chin, and under my jawline are the worst areas for me, and it has less to do with irritation and more to do with it just not cutting the hair. No matter what I do, I feel like I have noticeable stubble there. So much so, that it's actually VISIBLE, let alone FEELABLE.

Have you sought out mentor help? This has been offered and suggested. If you are closing on 100 shaves and not there yet, you may never get it, some people just can't. If your blade is right and the stropping is right, then you just aren't getting it, time for one on one tutoring. Tc

I've always found that too close of an angle doesn't cut hair well, and too steep of an angle cuts skin well. As said, somewhere around 30 degrees is optimal. Just have to experiment, and it also changes with different razors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tcrideshd

Have you sought out mentor help? This has been offered and suggested. If you are closing on 100 shaves and not there yet, you may never get it, some people just can't. If your blade is right and the stropping is right, then you just aren't getting it, time for one on one tutoring. Tc

---

Yup! Randy Tuttle and Rod Bell met with me this weekend and gave me a number of pointers that I need to try out. Just to be clear, I'm nowhere near 100 shaves yet. I'm still practicing, but it's an odd feeling, because it doesn't feel like I'm making progress each shave. Rod said that one thing that often happens is you feel like you're not making progress, you're not making progress, and then one day, after a while, it just sort of happens and you get it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Smattayu

I finish up with my DE, but I always spend at least a little time on my neck trying to find a way that works well, otherwise I'll never become proficient there. I've done fairly well at making progress while not going so far as to feel like I'm shaving with 80 grit sandpaper.
The progress is slow, but I am improving on almost every shave and that's what matters to me. It's the journey not the destination and all that :gl:

---

I am only a little in front of you and my neck is my trouble spot as well.

It is mostly my stretching that is the problem and I am not consistent yet with it.

I get it close every now and then with the straight but if I make more than three passes I can't shave the next day.

I've made it as far as clearing to just under my jawline with a straight. Only cleaning up my neck with a DE. Progress.

A lot of folks have suggested using a DE to clean up. I would do that, except I jumped right from cartridge shaving -> straight. I never learned how to use a DE, nor do I own one, lol. :) (I do have a shavette, though).