New to SR shaving - dull blade?

Hey everyone,

So after about 2 years of enjoying wet shaving with a safety razor I finally took the plunge and purchased my first straight razor, a DOVO Bergischer Love and a strop.
I purchased mine from West Coast Shaving and chose to have it professionally honed.

My first shave with it was as I was expecting to be honest pretty bad, few minor cuts but I had a burning sensation on my face that day, almost screamed when putting my alum on after the shave hehe.
The razor felt plenty sharp but the shave wasn't super close, I blamed it on technique really.

I've since then shaved 4 times (not a lot), stropping is going well, watched plenty of videos of stropping and even though I'm no expert I feel I'm doing it right, just going slow at the moment.

However my blade just feels like it's getting duller and duller with each shave. Just did a 2 pass shave just now and it just didn't remove any hair at all really. Was pretty annoyed.
Don't know what I'm doing wrong, it must have something to do with my stropping, can you really get the blade this dull so quickly?

It's not passing the falling hair test at all, I just tried shaving a bit of my forearm and really, it's not cutting very well. It cuts some for sure but it just passes over most.

Could it be that maybe it wasn't properly honed, seems unlikely. Or may I have done something wrong in this short time of owning it that may have dulled it this much?
Is it possible my technique is just that bad? Is the falling hair test and the fact I'm having a hard time shaving the hair of my forearm no indication that it's dull?

I live in a fairly isolated part of the world here in Iceland and to my knowledge there is no one here that would hone a straight razor, Wouldn't surprise me if I was the only person here that uses one really:)
If I need to have it sent somewhere to be honed I will, was hoping it wouldn't have to be in the first week I received it though :(


Any advise?

It really doesn't take a lot to ruin an edge. Lift the spine of the razor slightly while stropping, especially if you're using paste, and that may be all it takes. I might suggest not using paste until you're better with linen and leather. Could also be any number of things - if you used the thumbnail test a little too often to check sharpness, or you used your finger pad but didn't get the oils and salts from your skin off the blade suitably it may be pitted.

If it's not removing hair, or the razor is tugging at all, then it's dull and time for it to be re-honed. You may want to consider picking up a second, that way you'll still have a shaver when one gets dull and needs to be sent off.

First: set your strop on the edge of a counter/table and do 100 laps as perfect as possible...

Second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zQP7CToWQ

Darn, I guess I must have done something wrong somewhere. I may well have lifted the spine when stropping at some point, if that is all it takes I feel it won't be with me for long after every hone, that is until my technique gets a little better :)

I wish I could get a second opinion somehow before having it sent off, but I guess the best way to find out is just to have it honed and than I will know the difference for sure.
Was hoping it would last a little longer before I would ruin the edge, but oh well.

Any recommendations on where to get it honed? I see that The Invisible Edge in the UK are doing this, I guess delivery to England would be cheaper and quicker for me since I am in Europe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

First: set your strop on the edge of a counter/table and do 100 laps as perfect as possible...

Second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zQP7CToWQ

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Thanks, I will try doing that stropping technique and than do a shave test, if that doesn't go well I will send it off to be honed.

It doesn't take much to roll the edge. It's difficult to say without having seen it but I'd wager your first shave the blade was at too steep an angle & too much pressure applied. That would explain the razor burn. Correct stropping is also really important. One mess up, like lifting the spine off the leather, could exacerbate the problem.

On the other hand it could possibly have just been a dull razor, but I wouldn't expect the shaves to get progressively worse so quickly if that were the case.

Gssixgun's post is a good way to find out if it's a rolled edge.

There are guys in Norway that hone, I don't know anyone in Iceland off hand but there is a separate sub-forum for your region that you can ask in :)


Nordic region

also keep in mind your new at this ,, more than likely its all of the above, technique has a lot to do with perceived sharpness. your extreme razr burn could be too much pressure and angle of use. could be your prep. all these things must be learned over time. but the blade must be right to start with.
I don't know who does the honing at WCS, but there are some real good guys who can hone it right for you. and Glen is one of them, and of course the guys in Norway, like Birnardo can hone right.

and trust me stropping is probably the most important aspect of proper shaving, so yes your stropping could easily have affected the edge. most new guys think their doing good until they actually learn. you being in an isolated area leaves out one on one training, but keep it in mind if you go into Europe.

by the way ive heard the Invisable Edge does a fine job honing, get another razor for when you dull one, and after you have learned to shave and strop get a 12K Naniwa to refresh with Tc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tcrideshd

and trust me stropping is probably the most important aspect of proper shaving, so yes your stropping could easily have affected the edge. most new guys think their doing good until they actually learn.

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That was the case for me. I don't think my stropping damaged a razor per se, but it probably needed a touch up a lot sooner than it might have.

When I was newbie, all razors felt dull to me. I suggest you get the razor honed by a skilled honer (not sure if honer is a word!). When you get it back do NOT strop it, but so a test shave like in Glen's video. You eliminate a big variable by not stropping. If the test shave goes well, you know your stropping may be suspect. If the test shave goes poorly, you know something in your technique is lacking. Ask whomever hones it to strop it real well (I think most honers do that anyway, but ask them just to be sure). Hope this helps.

I know honing and newbie shave technique is probably the problem but if you had/have a pasted strop I would try 5 or 6 laps on that before having to send it away to be honed.

Yeah might as well try that if it's going to be sent off anyway, but let that be the very last thing you try. Possibly incorrect stropping on leather is bad, possibly incorrect stropping on compound is worse. I don't mean to discourage you. You'll get the stropping down pretty quickly, and might have already. We don't know that that's the issue. But adding an abrasive just speeds up the good/bad of it.

My advice would be to purchase a second straight... It doesn't need to be new, it doesn't need to pretty..... all it needs to do is to be able to hold an edge and not fall apart in your hands. Shave ready vintage straights are available the Classifieds at very reasonable prices many times.

Why should you get *another* razor when the first one is giving you trouble? Precisely because of that! You *think* your first razor may be dull... or you may have damaged the edge slightly during stropping, an errant super hair blew in from another planet, or.... What I am suggesting is that when starting out, there are so many variables... it is impossible for you to learn them all right away.

So, if you now have *2* shave ready razors.... you can compare. Oh....one is smooth and sharp, the other one isn't. Now you know what needs to be corrected and better yet, the other razor will let you shave while it is being honed!

OR... perhaps you try one and find it feels dull, so you try the second... hmmm still dull?!?! Maybe my shaving technique?!?!? So now you change the techique and you find your dull razor is now sharp. This is good news, because that means the other razor is ALSO sharp and so you don't need to send anything away for now.

Now we go a bit further down the path... you now have purchased a finishing hone which is great, but you have to learn how to use it.... maybe not so great. With two razors.... you can hone one, while shaving with the other. When you feel you can shave with your own honed blade.... you can send the other blade to someone for honing so you can compare your own honing to someone elses....

I have many razors, strops, hones, soaps, creams and the list go on..... but I started with 2 razor and they taught me everything I know. Better yet, I learned to enjoy old razors.... not pretty razors, just older and not so pretty looking anymore. I never feel bad if I damage one, hone it wrong, strop it wrong.... I alway have my second razor to save the day. And I can always find someone who can hone my problem razor back to shape.

This happened to me when I had a 4 year hiatus.... I shaved with other razors, not having the desire to shave with my straight razors. But last winter, I felt better and decided to go back to shaving, grabbed my trusty 4/8" carbo magnetic and started touching up the edge as I had shaved with before switching to DE razors..... Well, I know how to hone, and I knew what I was looking for, but I had lost my *feel* on the stones. That 4/8" Carbo Magnetic didn't seem to get sharper, but my bevels seem to be getting wonky and I could just not see a reason why. I stopped honing and I found someone who could hone that razor.... someone who had been active all these years. He said sure, he'd hone it. He gave it back to me a coulple days later claiming it was very very close... it just needed a few more strokes here and there..... An important lessons I had learned was to know when to walk away, when to put down a razor before I damage it... I just admitted I just couldn't do it...today. There is always tomorrow or maybe someone else could. The razor was sharp, I did look closely at his honing and realised where I had gone wrong, it was a great blade but it did have a slight warp that I had forgotten.

Today I am back my old self, I can hone pretty much any razor (I still have one that gives me headaches) and I can make them a bit sharper than ones I get from other pro's. Oh, I'm not saying the ones done by the other are not shave ready, they ARE. I'm just saying I can tweak a touch more than some honers.... not always, and probably not when they get their dander up. But even when I get a razor screaming sharp, HHT and falling hair tests are pointless.... mine do not pass with my hair.

The HHT is a test used by *some* who have developed it as a useful tool when honing. But there is only one universal test that everyone uses.... it is called the shave test. If you cannot shave comfortably, it's not shave ready, even it if passes a HHT.

I apologize for being so long winded when the simple fact is that owning a single straight razor, no matter the brand or size or condition, can at a moments notice, loose it's edge to a myriad of reasons! If you own 2 razors and one does not seem right, you still have the other one. I think I read you live in Iceland, which might be an issue.... check with the Scandinavian gang on here.... I used to live in Norway a long time ago, but I'm now in Canada, so that is of no help. If you get a razor honed shave ready by a good honer, that razor IS ready and yet, even then, without proper shave technique, you could start dulling the blade in a singe shave..... resulting a sore face.

So get a second razor, try to find a mentor if you can, and most importantly, in the beginning for sure.... only worry about doing an acceptable shave. I wore a uniform and was expected to maintain an acceptable appearance... but even there... nobody was going to reach out and touch my beard to see if it was a little rough:rofl2:

Thanks for all your valuable comments guys, appreciate it :)

I realize now it may have been better to get two slightly cheaper razors than the one I got. The Bergischer Lowe is a stunner but it was a bit pricey.
Not sure if I can afford another one just yet. :p

The strop I got with it was a DOVO as well, it has some white sharpening paste pre-applied to the linen side. I do about 10 passes on that side after shaving to clean the razor. I then I do about 10-20 passes on the linen followed by about 25-50 passes on the leather side before shaving.

Is it better to practice with a strop having it lying flat on a table?

There is an old barbershop here in Iceland which I contacted, they don't know anyone here in Iceland that they would trust to hone a SR but they told me they can have a look at it if I bring it in, to see if it may have become dull. They also told me that since they are are selling DOVO's here in Iceland they could have it sent to DOVO for honing. Didn't know DOVO did that, would you recommend me doing that? Would it be a proper honing job or would they just restore it to a factory edge perhaps?

I may see, if they have some good but affordable DOVO's I may pick up a second, I believe they also stock Boker.

I wouldn't send it to dovo, you'll most likely get a factory edge, which isn't good enough.

Laying the strop flat like that makes stropping a little easier as it removes 2 variables from the equation, strop tension & how much or little it wobbles around. Abrasive compounds typically should not be used every day, and positively not while someone is learning to strop. I only used a strop with a compound applied weekly and it helped my edges last six months. In my case it was usually diamond dust, but I've also used chrome oxide on a balsa plank to extend the life of a razor's edge.

Typical daily stropping, and this will vary from person to person, I did 20-30 laps on the second strop, mine is hard felt instead of linen, and 50 laps on the leather, both before and after shaving.

Edit: you may or may not have read about this, but it's important to know or else stropping will never make sense. The very edge of a straight razor is microscopically thin. Shaving bends that edge, only a few thousandths of an inch of it, it bends that edge over to the side. Some spots will bend one way, other spots will bend the opposite way. It isn't dulling the razor, it's just bending that tiny edge over to the side such that it can't cut anymore. The purpose of stropping is to realign the edge, to bend it all back straight again. It also slightly polishes the edge, but that's another show.

Incorrect stropping will make this misalignment worse, or in extreme cases break off tiny parts of the edge. Again, we're still on a microscopic scale here. At most a few thousandths of an inch, or hundredths of a millimeter.

Using a strop to which an abrasive compound has been applied will wear down the edge WHILE it is misaligned. You'll lose that fine edge and never get it back without going to the stones. It's like sharpening a razor with the blade held perpendicular to the stone, only on a tiny microscopic scale.

You have to strop the razor with a clean strop until the edge is realigned first. Then, and only then, can you use an abrasive compound to slightly sharpen that edge, if it still needs it.

I bought the DOVO 183 Russian leather strop this one

I read somewhere that the white paste they put on there isn't like most pastes and should be okay for daily use, if that makes any sense.
I'm not familiar yet with using pastes.

I do clean the razor before using the leather side after using the linen.

Should I perhaps just be using the leather side for daily use?

“Incorrect stropping will make this misalignment worse, or in extreme cases break off tiny parts of the edge. Again, we're still on a microscopic scale here. At most a few thousandths of an inch, or hundredths of a millimeter.

Using a strop to which an abrasive compound has been applied will wear down the edge WHILE it is misaligned. You'll lose that fine edge and never get it back without going to the stones. It's like sharpening a razor with the blade held perpendicular to the stone, only on a tiny microscopic scale.

You have to strop the razor with a clean strop until the edge is realigned first. Then, and only then, can you use an abrasive compound to slightly sharpen that edge, if it still needs it.”



Well, not exactly…

Most probably the OP, used too much pressure, or lifted the spine while stropping. If either of these occurred on the pasted strop he compounded the damage to the edge.

A pasted strop is an abrasive strop, but stropping on a pasted strop, will not damage an edge, if proper technique is used.

I strop on a pasted strop almost daily and shave straight off that edge without leather.

Stropping on a pasted strop will not damage an edge.

Stropping improperly will.

The issue is pressure or lifting the spine. If the OP takes the razor and strop to a barber, “who knows how to strop”, they might be able to bring the edge back, with the pasted strop. It will simply cut a new edge, if the edge is not too damaged.

I don’t know what Dovo white paste is, (Chalk I have read, which has been use for hundreds of years), the TI white, is fine but very aggressive, I suspect Diamond, Aluminum Oxide or both. Not sure which the OP used.

I have seen TI paste sold with Dovo strops.

If the edge is chipped, it will need a touch up.

Well we're both talking about incorrect stropping

Yup, incorrect stropping breaks off the fin/edge and then you have a chip or a completely wiped out edge.

Depending on the size of the chip and the aggressiveness of the paste, a pasted strop can some time revive an edge…

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Euclid440

Yup, incorrect stropping breaks off the fin/edge and then you have a chip or a completely wiped out edge.

Depending on the size of the chip and the aggressiveness of the paste, a pasted strop can some time revive an edge…

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Yessir, that's what my post was supposed to be about. Sometimes I ramble & forget to shut myself up, made the mistake of straying away from good info and into opinion :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

First: set your strop on the edge of a counter/table and do 100 laps as perfect as possible...

Second:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93zQP7CToWQ

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Ok - so I did exactly this and I'm now pretty convinced my blade has lost it's edge.
The razor has even stopped producing that sweet, sweet sound that my full hollowed blade did the first two times I shaved.

I still managed to get some hefty razor burns though, guess it's cutting up my face even though it's not cutting those whiskers ;)
I tried focusing on the right angle and applying very light pressure, I will get there in the end :)

I'm going to see about getting a second straight and sending this one to be honed.

At least you tried it out

Many times any damage caused by incorrect stropping can be solved by correct stropping... not always :(

When you get the razors back from honing, I suggest you do exactly what is in that vid with them as perfect as possible before stropping ..
This will give you a baseline to have as a standard from then on..

Good luck

my friend you cant get that bad razor burn even with a dull edge unless your using to much pressure and a steep angle, you really need to start with that blade almost flat on your face and just shave the lather without pressure.

I know you think your going light, but the razor burn says otherwise, your scraping your face. I can say this to you also, I,m pretty sure your razor is dull from the stropping, or it never was shave ready to begin with, maybe only factory edge. but one thing I learned was once you actually learn how to shave with a straight, sometimes you go back to a blade you thought was dull and find it shaves pretty good, technique and prep really has a big effect on shaving like this. but without knowing your blade, id say start off with a known edge and then learn what is going wrong, if the UK is best for you go with a reputable guy. Jamie(celticrusader) can put on an edge that will be right. if you can send to the US I personally can say Glen (gssixgun) will put on a killer edge,,

being new its so hard to figure out what your doing wrong cause you just haven't gotten it yet, but you just cant get there till the edge is right, then its up to the guy in the mirror who is typically the problem good luck and happy shaving Tc