Closeness of shave

Hello. A month or so ago I decided to try a straight razor just for giggles. I watched a few videos, read some reviews, and placed my order.

I ordered a low cost kit with a supposedly shave ready gold dollar razor, synthetic strop, soap, etc.

I have learned a great deal about technique, I have not destroyed my strop, and I have not sliced my face off. I have created my own blend of a pre-shave oil that helps immensely, and I genuinely enjoy using my straight razor. My biggest question is one of shave closeness. It seems no matter what I do with the straight razor, I can get a closer shave with a well worn safety razor, such as a Mach 5.

I know it is a poor craftsman who blames his tools, but I have to wonder if they may be the problem. Having never used a "good" straight razor I have nothing to compare it to. What I do know is that everybody says a straight razor is supposed to be the closest shave you can get, but for me that is most certainly not the case. Is the combination of low cost blade, mediocre honing, and poor quality synthetic strop stacking the deck against me, or does my technique really suck that bad? I feel like I get a lot of drag attempting to go against the grain, causing the razor to want to pull rather than cut, and possibly skip which doesn't seem so hot. My gut tells me this is a sharpness issue.

I thought about investing in a good honing stone and a quality leather strop. I'm not opposed to buying a better blade but I hate to spend a whole lot if I am doomed to suck. I figure a good blade with a crappy strop will quickly become a crappy blade, whereas a quality stone and strop would still be useful after I upgrade blades.

Thoughts?

I would question if it is actually "shave ready" unless you bought it from a honemeister here.

A quality honed antique would be a good starting place; and even if you don't want to invest in one of those you could send your straight to someone here to hone. There are a few people that offer services.

You would probably have to post up a pic of your strop to tell if it's any good. But my first strop came with a cheap pakistani razor that was junk. The strop isn't high quality by any means but I got by with it for a while.

So your challenges, as I see it from your post:

1. questionably honed blade
2. cheap blade (might be a problem, might not. Many people have success with Gold Dollars)
2. new shaver with possibly not great stropping technique
3. new shaver with possibly not great shaving technique.

Poor stropping technique will dull a blade quickly.

Eliminate at least the honing variable by getting the blade honed by someone here. If that doesn't fix it, try a different, quality antique razor, also honed by someone else.

If that doesn't fix it, you probably have a technique problem.

While GD's can be made to shave, they seldom hold an good edge for long, and generally, are not considered highly usable straight razors. Opinions vary on this, but my experience with honing two and using them to shave with was subpar.

I'd advise getting a nice vintage straight, from Whipped Dog for instance, they're not pretty, but you'll get a solid straight razor that is confirmed shave ready.

There are usually some great straights in the Classifieds here that are also an option.

Either way, I'd recommend going one of those two routes, and when you receive a "shave ready" razor, it has been stropped for you, so have a shave with it.

Carefully strop afterwards, and I'll bet you'll see a world of difference. There are a few selling these GD's online and various places, who've decided they're now, "honemeisters" and they're not, they're at best beginners or intermediate honers (and I'm being generous here), and they're selling GD's...to me, that says a lot right there...again, just my opinion. :)

Welcome,
The quickest answer to your question is a mix of both (equip and technique). More than likely your GD was not "shave ready". I won't go into if a GD is worth it or not...long debate and there's plenty of threads debating that topic (if you get time google "gold dollar + straight razor design...and for some light reading do the same with "taping to Hone" hours of post just in those two topics that will show you the subjective side to our hobby.
What I do recommend is get a vintage shave ready on the cheap from the "Buy/Sell/Trade" from a member off the forum. It will truly be shave ready (ask them to send it ready to go no stropping needed/that first shave will be a good personal bench mark)
Next grab a leather strop. You can find a good one from about $40-$70 (Tony Miller, Straight Razor Design, Whipped Dog). Or, look for a razor/strop set from a reputable vendor (find one you like and ask for references from the forum). While your looking and waiting check out the Library on the forum and there's some you tube videos by a couple of members (look up Lynn Abram and Glen(Gssixgun). I'd watch all the ones the have to offer (maybe minus honing...save that for later), Get a canvas/web belt and a butter knife and practice stopping tech. You'll more than likely do some harm when you start stropping so practicing will put you ahead. Plus, it could help not cutting the strop. Look in the sticky thread in stopping called "Stroptober"

As far as shaving Tech. The sources mentioned above will provide info on this too. It takes time. Watch your angle and as a wise forum member likes to say "shave the lather". and give it some time and you'll see results.

Probably the best thing you could do is put your location in your profile. More than likely a member in your area will make contact. Can't beat one on one mentoring. It's a great bunch on here1 Besides spent some time a Murray State and Louisville and I'm always interested in talking Kentucky with others (kind of assuming that's where your at).

Keep asking questions and exploring the forum!

Be safe, keep it upright, and Cheers,
Jer

They beat me to it. Belay some of my last.

Yeah, it is something you need to stick with to give yourself time to iron out what the problem is. It can be frustrating at first, but it does eventually come together.
A one on one with a mentor would help and highly recommended.

Sent from a moto x far far away...

The cheapest solution is to buy a $10 paddle strop and $6 chromium paste and strop the blade 5 to 10 times and then try shaving.

Undoubtedly your technique, as a newer shaver, leaves something to be desired. If it used to be sharper than it is now the pasted strop would probably take care of that.

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't really believe that my stropping technique has done any harm to the blade as I can definitely feel a difference after I strop it. More than likely the "shave ready" blade wasn't really up to par and there is only so much a strop can do, especially a cheap synthetic one.

I think my best course of action will be as suggested to look for better quality blade which is truly shave ready, and a decent strop. I'll then probably pick up a honing stone and use my gold dollar to practice on. What am I going to do, ruin a good blade?

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

Thanks for all the feedback. I don't really believe that my stropping technique has done any harm to the blade as I can definitely feel a difference after I strop it. More than likely the "shave ready" blade wasn't really up to par and there is only so much a strop can do, especially a cheap synthetic one.

I think my best course of action will be as suggested to look for better quality blade which is truly shave ready, and a decent strop. I'll then probably pick up a honing stone and use my gold dollar to practice on. What am I going to do, ruin a good blade?

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Sounds like a solid plan to me. :-D keep us updated on the results.

Yep, Good plan. Get a Razor that is "for sure" shave ready and I bet some issues go away. Still having less than 100+ shaves with a straight, your still in the beggining stages and haven't got the hang of the blade yet. Takes time.

Even if you have a stellar razor, your results will be sub-par in the beginning. Takes time as Gasman said.

Every 5, 10 or 20 shaves you will see a jump in the quality of your shaves. You will have little "aha" moments which will motivate your journey.

Have fun.

I'm certainly no expert but I'm not a total moron either. I have lived long enough to know that if something doesn't seem right, it probably isn't.

To test this theory I have placed an order for a shave ready vintage razor and a leather strop kit (also has the balsa and polishing compounds) from whipped dog. I have also ordered a 4000/8000 stone from another source.

I'm hoping I see a big difference with the quality blade and that will give me a target to shoot for sharpening the gold dollar. It may not hold an edge long but I should be able to get it there for a little while. If I ruin it, who cares?

6 months from now the razor you thought was dull might shave just fine. in the beginning its just that way, you don't have a reference for how to shave and strop,, stropping and technique being the most import things. you should tell the difference in your new blade if they honed it well, but ultimately your technique will give you some rough shaves, its a good practice to just start slow and do just a cheek or 2 till you have that down pat then move on. gives you time to learn the proper attack so to speak, and stroppiung cant be stressed enough, takes a while before you actually improve an edge with a strop.

as for learning to hone on the GD , your right nothing to lose, but really its more like restoration trying to get the geometry right, instead of just honing, good luck Tc

I agree technique can most certainly be an issue but at the same time I can tell you that 6 months from now a dull blade will still be a dull blade.

Doing further reading and testing, this thing does the hanging hair test about as well as a drinking straw. I can single out a hair on my cheek, pull the skin tight as a drum, and the only way it will cut it in any direction is with considerable pressure. Sure it'll cut the hell out of your face if you do something stupid, but if I have to apply enough pressure to remove skin and still not cut hair, something ain't right.

I may not have helped the blade any over the last month but it has been this way from day 1.

hey I,m with you the razor itself really wasn't the best choice, even after a pro gets ahold of it, the money spent could have went to a decent blade,, your getting a shave ready vintage razor from someone who really will hone it right will remove all doubts about it. you really cant learn to shave with a crap edge. there is so much going on in the first month or two that the edge is really important. my point was even with a proper edge in the beginning, most will not get the results they thought, then as their technique improves they will find that some of the edges they thought weren't good in fact were. but stropping will also kill an edge to. so get that other razor and start on the road to smooth shaves. I know its been said but if you put your general location in your profile you may be right down the road from some real help on the edges Tc

Oh I agree. On my first shave it wouldn't have mattered if my blade had been honed by Jesus himself, I still would have done a lousy job. I remember that first time I felt I really had done a passable job was on about day 12. Through hard work and patience I went from thoroughly helpless newbie to slightly less helplesd newbie.

As I have progressed further I have gotten less and less worried about slicing my face off (especially left handed) and have been able to really focus on problem areas and try different approaches. As I concentrated on the problem areas and realized that nothing made a difference I started really paying attention to the non problem areas. Thats when I really started paying attention to how close the shave was (or wasn't) and realized that it really isn't very sharp. I know I still have a ton to learn and practice, but if the blade is so dull that nothing works, then practicing doesn't really tell me anything.

I did a little bit of research before I ordered my blade but apparently not enough. Five different websites give it good reviews? That's great until you realize that all five sites are owned by the same freakin guy! After coming here and finding another person on the front page having bought the exact same kit and having the exact same oncerns, I was convinced that my "shave ready" blade might as well have been honed by a monkey. Still though it has taught me that it is something I want to pursue further, and that is a good thing.

I can't wait for my new stuff to get here so I can see what one is supposed to feel like.

I figured you fine folks would like an update. I got my shave ready sight unseen vintage razor and new strops from whipped dog. What I got is a W.H. Morley & Sons Clover, which says it was made in Germany. The difference is night and day.

What's more I ordered a 4000/8000 Norton stone and decided to see what I could do for the gold dollar. I followed the instructions for the "pyramid" honing pattern, doing 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 3, and 1 laps on each grit. I then went to the balsa strop and made 50 laps with 0.3 micron chromium oxide and 50 laps with 0.1 micron iron oxide. I finished it off with 20 laps on the leather strop.

I was absolutely amazed by the difference! Suddenly my gold dollar shaves on par with my vintage. This tells me one thing for sure, the "shave ready" selling point of this razor was a total crock. If some dude (that would be me) who has never honed a blade before in his life can read a couple of web pages and kick the crap out of your honing job on the first attempt, you have ZERO business saying your blades are shave ready!

My shaving technique can still use some work, but at least the tools are not fighting me anymore. I'm sure my honing can use work as well and there is better equipment to be had, but for now I can get a good shave out of the deal instead of a laughable one.

These things need to come with warning labels. Not because they are sharp, but because the "sport" is so stupidly addicting. I have despised shaving my whole life and now I actually look forward to it.

Good to hear!
Just wait till the Razor/Strop/Hone/Brush/Soap/Bowl/Scuttle/Aftershave/Preshave/etc.etc Acquisition Disorders kick in full speed.

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

I did a little bit of research before I ordered my blade but apparently not enough. Five different websites give it good reviews? That's great until you realize that all five sites are owned by the same freakin guy! After coming here and finding another person on the front page having bought the exact same kit and having the exact same oncerns, I was convinced that my "shave ready" blade might as well have been honed by a monkey.

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Sadly this has been a common occurrence. When you are selling to beginners who have absolutely no sense of what is good or bad, it is easy to take advantage of that opportunity. This vendor is one of several that capitalize on the ignorance of beginners. Unfortunately then when they find that they cannot get a decent shave, the majority give up. The vendor of course simply moves on to the next batch of novices (suckers).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

I ordered a 4000/8000 Norton stone and decided to see what I could do for the gold dollar. I followed the instructions for the "pyramid" honing pattern, doing 25, 20, 15, 10, 5, 3, and 1 laps on each grit. I then went to the balsa strop and made 50 laps with 0.3 micron chromium oxide and 50 laps with 0.1 micron iron oxide. I finished it off with 20 laps on the leather strop.

I was absolutely amazed by the difference! Suddenly my gold dollar shaves on par with my vintage. This tells me one thing for sure, the "shave ready" selling point of this razor was a total crock. If some dude (that would be me) who has never honed a blade before in his life can read a couple of web pages and kick the crap out of your honing job on the first attempt, you have ZERO business saying your blades are shave ready!

My shaving technique can still use some work, but at least the tools are not fighting me anymore. I'm sure my honing can use work as well and there is better equipment to be had, but for now I can get a good shave out of the deal instead of a laughable one.

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I am very happy for you that you are not one who gave up. I am fairly confident that you will continue to get better at this!

Also, I hope that you will be able to find your way to a meet-up with a more experienced honer some time soon so that you can make even faster progress.

I never recommend straight razor shaving to anyone. It's not because it isn't the best shave. It is. But it comes with a lot of learning and maintenance. If you are truly happy with a disposable razor shave, do it. There is a reason why most people don't use straight razor much anymore. Performance is not the issue. It's the learning curve and upkeep that are.

Glad to hear it is all working out for you. Give yourself 3 months and you'll really be in the grove.

Bob

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Originally Posted by OCDshaver

I never recommend straight razor shaving to anyone. It's not because it isn't the best shave. It is. But it comes with a lot of learning and maintenance. If you are truly happy with a disposable razor shave, do it. There is a reason why most people don't use straight razor much anymore. Performance is not the issue. It's the learning curve and upkeep that are.

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We live in an instant gratification, disposable society. Anything that gives instant results is better than learning a skill, no matter how wasteful and expensive it may be.

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

We live in an instant gratification, disposable society. Anything that gives instant results is better than learning a skill, no matter how wasteful and expensive it may be.

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I'd go along with that. Mind you it has been going that way a long time. The use of straight razors started to really decline with King Gillette's introduction of the his safety razor in 1901. Not much wrong with a DE/SE either.

Bob

I always find it amusing when people compare the shave from a Mach 9 to a Single blade (straight OR safety)

Always, without fail, basic facts are completely overlooked. Give it a thought for a moment.... if you have 5 blades scraping your face, and you make 2 passes with it (and dont tell me people dont make 2 passes with them!) thats 10 times a blade has scraped across your skin. and if you perform an overlap moving from one section of your face to the next, you might have shaved that one spot 15 or 20 times! Sure, a single pass with a single edge might not get you a "closer" shave, but the shave you DO get is less smooth and comfortable. Its less irritating, and less likely to cause ingrown hairs, razor bumps and that unpleasant burning sensation.
I'm glad the OriginalPoster found Whipped Dog and got himself a good shaver. At least Larry is a known vendor with a good rep.

Remember folks, ENJOY the shave! its one of the few times in todays society men get to treat themselves to fancy grooming habits! :chapeau

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

We live in an instant gratification, disposable society. Anything that gives instant results is better than learning a skill, no matter how wasteful and expensive it may be.

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That's true but even back in the day a lot of men chose to go to the barber for a shave instead of doing it themselves. Probably for the same reasons. So when the DE razor showed up on the scene, straights went into decline. You have to the kind of person that finds gratification through this sort of thing. It's not a shot against those that don't get it. They simply have other areas of interest and priority. A good brush and soap is what I usually suggest since anyone who shaves will benefit from that.

How did the honing of the Gold Dollar go? I can't recall reading anything.

I've honed a few and never was happy with a "regular" stone. I have to use a DMT to set the bevel and progress on lapping film from there. My Belgian Hone is too soft to do anything to a GD. Brand razors, like my Aust, are easy to hone on a Belgian Hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KYMotorcycleShaver

These things need to come with warning labels. Not because they are sharp, but because the "sport" is so stupidly addicting. I have despised shaving my whole life and now I actually look forward to it.

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That is most definitely true!!

I've been using straights for 18 months (the first 3 were with a shavette to test the waters before investing in a razor and strop) and I am the same way. I actually enjoy the morning shave. Prior to that, I had been using Mach 3s, Fusions, and off brand triples. Over time, I noticed they were getting less sharp fresh out of the box. I was going to go the DE route, but decided to go all the way into straights for the craft of it. I'm glad I did.

I only had one minor issue when first starting out with a straight. It was a new Ralf Aust and it did not cut worth a darn one day. Turns out that it was bad stropping. A little chromium oxide and it was good to go.