Looking for advices on different topics (more info inside)

So, I have 2 straight razors which give quite comfortable shaves. I dared to say they gave me shaves as comfortable as the ones I get with a Derby blade. Last Saturday I shaved with my DE because it had been somewhere around 3 months since I last did it and I felt like doing it (I have always enjoyed it) and to my surprise, the shave was smoother than with my straight.

Why am I telling you this? Well, this made me wonder a couple of things that I think only experienced SR shavers can answer (No, I will not ask which one is sharper, don't worry)

1. I can't reach the mirror finish on my blades with my Chinese 12K stone. In fact (after looking with a 40x magnifier) the surface shows several micro scratches, all in the same direction and all diagonal. Does that mean the stone is not doing the work appropriately?
2. Is the mirror finish a "must have" ?
3. I flattened my 12K stone using a 2K sandpaper. Could it be that instead of only making it flat I made it coarser too?
4. I have a 10-12K slurry stone I bought from an UK seller on ebay. Should I rub the stone (water in the middle obviously) in order to make the 12K stone smoother?
5. .

I do feel the shave is very comfortable with minor tugging (no pain, no irritation and no pulling... just some tug that I manage to avoid with a guillotine stroke) but I can't stop wondering if maybe this micro scratches mean the blade is not optimal. I have a vague memory of reaching the mirror finish several years ago (tho the bade was unusable) so now I'm not sure if I messed the stone or not.

I haven't used a cnat, but have had razors honed on them that was mirroresque.

A mirror finish isn't required. It simply means that the abrasive qualities of the stone is too coarse to achieve that. I have had ugly bevels perform fantastically and beautiful bevels that shave terribly.

The directionality of the striations are based on the direction you move the blade across the stone.

I think you could burnish the stone to get a finer finish. However, this will be a double edged sword. It will slow down the stone.

If you were able to get a mirror finish before, you may be applying too much pressure.

Any chance of a picture?

Actually, yes.
The photos are not that good but you can see the phenomenon. It's interesting because depending on how the light hits the edge, it looks smooth or scratched.
That being said, today I shaved with it and the shave was good (as it has been for the past month) with the usual tugging at chin level. I shaved half my face with it and the other half with a Gold Dollar 100 I received from Anthony Esposito (Mirror finish on jnat stones and sharp as a wife's comeback) and my Invicta performed almost as well as the GD100.
I am pleased because it must mean I have learned a lot. Still have a lot to learn but hey, considering I hone with a 6K+12K stone and strop on an old belt I think I'm doing pretty good!

Gotta look into an 8K stone. Maybe the scratches shown in the blade are from the 6K that the 12K is unable to smooth.
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The Cnat should be able to remove 6K scratches. I've used mine for everything down to 1K.

Try making a medium to thin slurry on the Cnat. Hone with the slurry on there, and dilute it down to almost pure water. That will expedite removal of and left over scratches. Once you're done with that, wash the stone and do a few laps with pure water until you're satisfied. Using the slurry stone will also burnish your stone and make it finer. So it's kind of a win/win.

Make sure the edges of the slurry stone are rounded - lessens the chance of rolling it and scratching up your nice flat hone. I tend to think that a smoother/more burnished stone creates a sharper edge. It also slows cutting speed, so there's a bit of a trade off.

Diagonal scratches are good, what you don't want to see is scratches running up and down the blade. The ones in the third picture look a bit deep though, more like 1K scratches that weren't quite removed by the 6K stone. You might also consider backing down to the 6K to do a little more work on it, then moving on to the Cnat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

The Cnat should be able to remove 6K scratches. I've used mine for everything down to 1K.

Try making a medium to thin slurry on the Cnat. Hone with the slurry on there, and dilute it down to almost pure water. That will expedite removal of and left over scratches. Once you're done with that, wash the stone and do a few laps with pure water until you're satisfied. Using the slurry stone will also burnish your stone and make it finer. So it's kind of a win/win.

Make sure the edges of the slurry stone are rounded - lessens the chance of rolling it and scratching up your nice flat hone. I tend to think that a smoother/more burnished stone creates a sharper edge. It also slows cutting speed, so there's a bit of a trade off.

Diagonal scratches are good, what you don't want to see is scratches running up and down the blade. The ones in the third picture look a bit deep though, more like 1K scratches that weren't quite removed by the 6K stone. You might also consider backing down to the 6K to do a little more work on it, then moving on to the Cnat.

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1K scratches? Hmmm that's interesting and quite logical.
I will follow your advice and see if I can burnish the cnat with the slurry stone.
I will also go back to the 6K and see the effect on the blade but keeping in mind what dinnermint said: "A mirror finish isn't required. It simply means that the abrasive qualities of the stone is too coarse to achieve that. I have had ugly bevels perform fantastically and beautiful bevels that shave terribly."

:D Will keep you posted!

Mirror edges look nice, but more often than not I do have scratches from my stones left over that can be seen with the naked eye in the right light. Some of my natural stones come very close but you can see scratches with just about all of them if you look long enough. The same can be said for my 12K synthetic stone, if you look in the right light you'll see scratches.

The only time I've created a scratch free bevel was using .5 CrOx, then .25 Micron CBN paste, and finally .1 Micron FeOx. And that really is overkill if all you want is a close, clean, and comfortable shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marshal

Mirror edges look nice, but more often than not I do have scratches from my stones left over that can be seen with the naked eye in the right light. Some of my natural stones come very close but you can see scratches with just about all of them if you look long enough. The same can be said for my 12K synthetic stone, if you look in the right light you'll see scratches.

The only time I've created a scratch free bevel was using .5 CrOx, then .25 Micron CBN paste, and finally .1 Micron FeOx. And that really is overkill if all you want is a close, clean, and comfortable shave.

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Ooooh, thanx for the feedback! Will keep that in mind :)

Firstly those edges are not mirror polished plus I can see a lot of striations on your bevel which indicate your edge is not refined enough, lapping your stone with 2K sandpaper will not leave your stone with a coarser finish, question how many passes with your razor are you doing on the Chinese hone plus who said it was a 12K hone? those hones are very slow cutters try a 100 laps using a little baby oil then strop on pasted CrOx 30 laps 50 plain linen 60 or 70 leather.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by celticcrusader

Firstly those edges are not mirror polished plus I can see a lot of striations on your bevel which indicate your edge is not refined enough, lapping your stone with 2K sandpaper will not leave your stone with a coarser finish, question how many passes with your razor are you doing on the Chinese hone plus who said it was a 12K hone? those hones are very slow cutters try a 100 laps using a little baby oil then strop on pasted CrOx 30 laps 50 plain linen 60 or 70 leather.

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Usually I do around 100 laps. I bought the stone from ebay, the vendor said it was 12K and meant to be used with straight razors.

Thursday I played with the stones and the razor a bit more.
I did around 80 laps on the 6K stone. I tried something unusual (haven't read about it on the forums) I added a drop of liquid soap to the stone and dissolved it with water. The liquid was slightly slick and the blade glided slightly better. I am aware this means the stone was a bit slower, but I liked the effect. Also, it seems to me that the edge's surface improved.

After this, I tried around 40 laps with slurry (thin slurry) in the 12K and every 10 laps I added a couple drops of water. Once the slurry was so think it was barely visible, I switched to the same formula I used on the 6K (water and a drop of soap) and did around 40 more laps.

Finally, I did try the baby oil formula but only did 10 laps because the blade was actually cutting the oil's surface tension and all the oil was sliding above the blade making the underside touch the stone directly.

I went to soap and water again but did only like 10-15 laps before moving to the padded leather strop, then the belt strop and finally a denim square where I do 5 laps with ZERO pressure (I use it just to remove the greasy film formed by the belt strop. I once used a little bit of L'occitane hand cream on it (again, just a drop) and while soft, it always leaves a thin film on the edge)

Have yet to try it because I shave every 3-4 days but it seems the blade is in nice shape. I tried cutting my belly hairs and they fell without effort (I know is not the same but I didn't want a hole in my beard). I usually do some 20 laps on another section of the belt strop where I apply Turtle Wax Polishing compound and it always helps, but this time I decided to skip that step and see how the blade works.

Something to notice: the edge has a smoother finish compared to the photos sent a few days ago. If you look at it with the same magnifier you can still see striations but they seem to be finer.
Will keep the thread updated with photos and the shave results.

On my natural stones I like to do the final laps with a thin shave lather - probably about the same as using a drop of soap. Makes things slicker and they polish a bit better.

When using oil, thinner is better for finish work. Baby oil (mineral oil) is a bit thick as you discovered. You can cut it with mineral spirit to thin it up and get a slightly better result than with just the oil.

But my preference is soap because that rinses right off the hone when done.

True dat.

As an update (still no photos) I shaved today and the first pass was below acceptable. No cuts, no irritation but a lot of tug. I had to use the TurtleWax polishing compound (20 laps on my belt) and another 30 laps on the uncompounded section of the belt. That did the trick. Shave was a lot smoother (like the ones before).

I think I will stop trying to give it a mirror edge for now. Seems to me I need more tools (and money) than the one available to me at the moment.