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If electrical tape is used when honing a razor - why is it not important to use tape when stropping the razor?
I was just thinking about this when I watched a video where it was explained that when maintaining a honed razor I should stick to whatever the razor was honed with.
Gary
I've been wondering the same, esp when multiple layers of tape are used.
A hone is hard and presumably flat. When you strop, you are using a material that has some flexibility like balsa wood, cloth or leather. While tape does change the apex angle of the edge slightly when honing, the flexibility of the stropping material is generally sufficient to accommodate the slight change in angle when stropping.
I use basswood for my my 0.25 micron CBN pasted strop. Basswood is less flexible than balsa, so in that case, it might be helpful to use tape if the razor was honed with tape. For leather and fabric strops, there is no need to be concerned.
Thanks, I never considered the flexing of the strop and makes complete sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by RayClem
Gary
Tape really does not change the angle that much, it's mostly used by guys that either hone for someone or hone there own razor to keep spine wear away but sometines a layer or two is needed to get the bevel angle correct but that's another story and as stated not necessary to use when stropping.
I personaly dont use the tape when stropping....it can get friction burned/worn and i'd hate to have glue from underneath the tape contamine the leather...or small plastic shavings....
Like most of the fine gentlemen here have mentioned....the stropp has some give to it...a hard paddle strop less...a cut paddle stropp a bit more...a loom strop a bit more...and a hanging strop...well how much you need...the amount of ''give''is adjusted by hand tension.
It would be correct to use the tape when stropping especialy when multiple layers were used....in theory it would be logical....
In practice I have seen no diffrence or improvement in using the tape when stropping...I doo use hanging strops...I have not used a hard paddle strop in @5-6years...so I cant speek for that...but even on a hard paddle the leather should have a bit of give to it and manage to hit the edge.
Try it both ways...see what you like best...I personaly hate rubbing plastic on my precious stropps:)
Thank for the reply, I was more curious than anything really. I can't imagine using electrical tape with my strop - have been getting decent results so no tape, based only on my newbie experience level. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by ovidiucotiga
For maintaining a razor is it recommended that tape be used if the razor was initially honed that way? I've just received a Kamisori from Brian Brown (awesome razor with my two shaves by the way) and he had a note included with the razor stating it was honed using tape - is this info for when further touch ups are done? However, my decent razors will not see s hone by me - not yet anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jnatcat
Gary
Yup, that info is for use when putting the blade to the hones. If you honed without tape it would take very little to reset the bevel to the new angle. IIRC using a layer of tape changes the angle 1 degree or less.
Bob
I have a couple of custom razors where the jimps on the top of the spine extend up the blade a bit.
If I don't use tape on these while stropping they will scrape up the strop in very short order.
Of course I learned this the hard way.
Normally though, no tape while stropping.
Pete <:-}
Unless the proportions of the blade are really out of range the tape is to protect the spine not to change the angle. Gotta keep them looking pretty!
An improperly designed razor which for example would have jimps in the wrong place could also be a reason to protect your strop.
On my Crox pasted paddle strop I use tape but never on my hanging strop, it flexes enough to compensate.
On razors that needed lots of tape layers (3+) I will give the strop a bit more slack to compensate for the tape that was there during honing.
Leaving the tape on might put tape residue on the strop which would be a bad thing
Realy got me curious on how much would a lauer of tape raise the angle.
So I calculated for a 1 inch blade and 0.25mm thick electrical tape(seems to be a good average)
It came out every layer adds 0.56degrees.
Circumference is 2 pi R
Pi is roughly 3.1416
R is the 25.4 mm wide blade.
So I divided the circumferince to the width of the tape and found up how many layers would stack upto rorm a 360degree circle:)
Then divided by 360 to get the number of layers per degree...I got 1.7 layers per degree...
That comes up to 0.56 degree on a 1 inch blade...using 0.25mm thick tape...or I stink at marth.
So Bob...you are actualy pretty close...
This can go near 1 degree if using a less wider blade:)
Some use tape when honing, others never use tape. I prefer not to use tape except when honing quarter hollow razors. If I purchase a razor that has been honed with tape, when it needs to be honed, I reset the bevel without tape. That way, I do not have to use tape when refreshing the edge.
Discussions about tape always makes me think about those really worn / dished / heavily used stones you sometimes see.
That must have the same effect as adding quite a few layers of tape
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ovidiucotiga
The easy way is to download the Exel (bevel angle calculation) file from here http://coticule.be/wedges.html . I do stink at math so take the easy way when I can :) Using a layer of electrical tape really makes a very minor difference in bevel angle unless the razor's geometry is really out of whack.
Bob
This seems to be a good option and sounds like it may be the way I'll go. From what I understand it is not that difficult to reset the bevel. I plan on looking through some antique shops for razors I can practice on - my wife has bought me a Norton 220/1000 and 4000/8000 hones with a flattening stone for my birthday.Quote:
Originally Posted by RayClem
Gary
Keep in mind that some razors with moderate hone wear will hone badly without tape as the bevel will get to thin and be fragile and crumble apartQuote:
Originally Posted by GaryDrainville
I use tape in two cases
1) if the blade a of significant value and spine wear would reduce the value. I do this with my fili's
2) if the blade steel is soft enough that a layer or two of tape increasing the angle of the bevel would benefit the durability of the edge. I do this typically with custom and newer blades
I prefer to hone without tape as the feedback and feel is just so much more telling. I never use tape to strop for the reasons listed above. Strops are forgiving by nature as they're intended to straighten the blade and not actually remove much material, the degree of angle created by the addition of a layer of tape would be negligible if you're using only light pressure like you should be. Never had an issue doing things this way.
Tape. LOL. This is a topic that can get volatile real quick around here. So before anyone loses it, I'm not here to debate the issue. Please know that. I use tape every time I hone. And yes, its initially to keep from wearing the spine. However, that's not all its there for. As your honing you may notice that you're not getting a good edge. Maybe its chipping. Or maybe you can't get a bevel. The answer is often resolved with a layer or two of tape. No the angle doesn't change very much but its often just enough to give the edge the strength it needs to get you over the hump. I use it as I see necessary and never give it s second thought. I know that some say that you're changing the geometry of the blade by using it. But I doubt you will ever find that a problem. Your great grand kids might but you won't.
Brian tapes all his razors and I believe he does this for the looks as some don't like any wear to the spine but going from taped to untaped is not that many strokes, I believe Glen did a video of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryDrainville
The short answer is the strop flexes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryDrainville
In the case of a balsa strop or hard backed leather strop it might be a question if you are
using them to extend your hone kit into the very fine range.
If you inspect a lot of paddle strops (leather on wood) some will have rather thin
wood under the leather to allow it to give a bit.
As thin as tape is it is less of a problem than it might sound. Tape also wears
so is thinner in use than when measured.
Good question...