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Hello, ive tried following lynns video now 5 times without any success at all. I try to follow the video as close to possible everytime. The razor just isnt sharp at all. For fun when i just tried honing on the 12k with alot of preasure the sharpness increased a little. I use naniwa pro 1k,5k and super 12k
Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
Well,, try it another "5" times. :shrug:
It may take several times before you recognize which dynamics of the process you need to adjust.
You have a big jump there from the 5 to 12K I noticed, easily doable if you are experienced enough.
If you spent more than 45 minutes in the endeavor, then you need to take a break, maybe a day or so; re-evaluate the razor as an individual & give it another try.
Ive tried over several days, maybe 10 trys in total. I see in the vid lynn can shave from 5k, man after the 5k its still as dull as when i started, i know it takes time getting good, but its as dull as before i started.
It's simple, your burned out on it. Your not going to recognize the slight errors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesalot23
Put the razor away for a while.
How about listing where you live in your profile, you may be within driving distance of a person who could teach you.
Send your razor out to a member who hones, then learn to "maintain" it with that 12K.
I was having a time when I first started honing a razor also. I too followed Lynn video and thought I was doing it exactly as shown. Turns out when I brought the blade to me it made full contact with the stone but when I pushed it away from me just before I reached the end the blade was turning up just enough to make the difference. When I corrected this it made a world of difference. also the pressure of the blade to the stone will very from one person to another. Heavy pressure is not forcing with all your might and light pressure is not feather light. It takes quite a bit of practice. Don't give up you'll get there.
Yup, put it down and walk away, had to do that several times myself.
Some razor's seem to hone themselves, and others test your patience, and it takes lots of practice to develop the right touch, and to know what your objective is other than just passing the razor over and over the stones waiting for it to feel "sharp" - you're looking at making the striations on the edges of the blade meet at the apex to form a bevel. A loupe is a must have for the beginner, and an important tool in any honer's kit.
You need to look that the edge with the loupe, make sure you have a uniform edge from heel to toe, and you can see the striations slowly creep up the edge to meet on both sides of the edge - that's your goal for bevel setting, and the loupe is your friend.
For me, when I sit down to hone, I usually just do one session to set the bevel, once that's done, the fun part begins.....but the foundation is that first bevel set.
As Hirlau say's, step away, have a goods nights rest, and ave a look again on a new day....:)
First check the razor to see if it has a frown, those just won't hone until you fix the frown
I see, whats the point going in circles like he does? also when going in circle with preassure, you use preassure when it comes with edge first, then remove preasure when going spine first? maybe there are some goods videos with just normal strokes and not circles?
It's a good video on honing.
You have been given great advice here.
Take it or leave it, your choice.
Honing is not paint by numbers as in do X number of this stroke and then X number of that stroke and you are done. Each razor is a bit different in what and how it needs to be honed. At first you will have difficulty assessing what that is.
You need a loupe and strong light source to see what you are doing to the edge and the hard part of that in the beginning is that you are not exactly sure what you are looking for. That is the way it was for me. You could use a black marker on the bevel and that will show you where you are missing bits on the edge.
All in all it can/is a very frustrating experience when you try to learn on your own how to hone. I did it that way and know how frustrating it is.
All that is why the advice to get together with a member for some one on one honing instruct is so valid. Placing your location in your profile will make it easier for a member to help you that way. Also the advice to leave it alone till you do not feel frustrated is solid. By repeating the same thing over and over again you will get the same crappy results. Unless you or a mentor can figure out what you are doing wrong you will not make much progress.
Bob
ok i see. Can i wear out my razor quick this way setting new bevels and practicing? also still im wondering why lynn uses circles method
Yes you can wear it out, tape the spine. The circles speed up the processQuote:
Originally Posted by Jamesalot23
If you can't get the bevel set that means you are not torquing the blade enough and are honing above the edge.
When you do not torque but apply pressure you are honing the spine more than needed. Try and produce a slight twist towards the edge and see how that changes your results.
Thanks, i was not aware of that, will try, and report back tomorowQuote:
Originally Posted by mainaman
Send it out as others have advised.
If you have been performing circles and pressure then I would say your bevel now had high spots and uneven ware.
Probably a better idea to stick to X' s or straight strokes watching the water and how the edge pushes it along.
I made many a bevel wonky using pressure and circles in the beginning of my journey to Lord King Honemeister :)
The most important hones in your sequence are the 1K bevel setter and the 12K (or higher) finisher. Stones in the middle just help get rid of the scratches/stria from the 1K.
When you use the 1K stone it is an absolute must that you take whatever time is necessary to achieve an apex where the bevels on both side of the razor converge. You cannot set a specific time, nor can you count strokes; it takes as long as it takes. On a vintage razor, you may have to remove some "rotten" steel before it will take an edge. Although I do not like doing so, I have gone all the way back to a 400 grit stone to remove metal on some vintage razors.
When you finish with the 1K hone, you should be able to shave arm hair at skin level. Although some folks say you never should do it, I usually test to see if the 1K edge will slice through 15# tablet paper with no snags from one end of the blade to the other. If the bevel is not set, it won't pass both tests. You need to go back to the 1K and continue until it will. The paper will do minor damage to the edge, so go back and add a few strokes on the 1K after the edge passes that test.
Ideally, when using a synthetic stone progression, each step upward to finer grits should no more than double the previous grit. Thus, a sequence of 1K, 2K, 4K, 8K, 12-16K would be ideal. Unfortunately, Naniwa offers a 5K stone rather than 4K. The reason for this is that by going from 1K to 5K, the 5K stone will have difficulty removing all of the 1K scratches and replacing them with 5K scratches. Thus, when you budget will allow, try adding a 2K or 3K stone to the sequence. I use both of them in my sequence.
A lot of folks say you should be able to shave off an 8K Naniwa or Norton stone. I have a tough beard and sensitive skin, so I want a blade that is both sharp and smooth; the 8K won't achieve that for me.
You have to be careful not to over-hone on the Naniwa 12K as it can cause some razors to develop microchips. When you are jumping from a 5K to a 12K, it will take a lot of work for the 12K to remove all of the 5K scratches. Thus, you might want to consider adding an 8K stone at some point. It is probably more important than a 2K or 3K.
Agree with the feedback your getting here on your questions. The one thing I will add is that trying to hone a straight razor 5 times (even following the video to a "T") is a VERY short amount of time to get the honing technique down correctly.
I am not exaggerating when I say that I probably honed 50 times before I even understood what I was doing that was improving the edge vs what I was doing that was degrading it. And I would say that's almost the norm (other members feel free to chime in on that, maybe i'm just really slow lol) I literally went out and bought junk razors off the bay to hone on so as to not wear own my "good ones" at the advice of my mentor.
And then after I found myself in a position where I was grasping the concept of a technique, there was no proverbial "ah Hah" moment for me. It continued to be observing, improving, and repeating. I am at a place now where I know what I need to do in order to get what I consider an acceptable edge from each of my blades, and it still takes an extraordinary amount of concentration, observation, and especially patience on my part.
Doesn't sound like you are getting the bevel set correctly.
As suggested, I think by BobH on the previous page, sharpie the edge, then inspect under strong light to ensure the ink is removed evenly tip to heel and all the way to the very edge. If it isn't, you don't have the bevel set, yet.
You might wanna look for feedback markers from the stone / razor.
You might wanna try a couple of edge probing assessments after each hone, you gotta know and get the feel of what an edge should look / feel like after every hone.
If you've worn out the spine you might not even be honing into the very edge of the razor anymore, and it can take a long time to get there, you might wanna add a layer of tape to aid in that.
Very good points have already been made, maybe try posting a picture of the razor?
The Naniwas are very fast stones IME so generally speaking beyond the bevel setting it really shouldn't take long at all to polish and finish that bevel. If the bevel is indeed not meeting correctly, you can do and try anything you want, it just will not shave.
I actually did/do find the Naniwa 1K a little tricky to figure out for some reason, ergo why I like to set my bevels using a very fast Coticule, they're a somewhat easier to judge for me and shave arm hair well so I know the bevel is set.
Good luck!
I'm probably at close to 600 razors honed, like you said no definitive "ah hah" moment but there were tons of mini "ah hah" moments that all get stored for future reference. And I'm still learning. It's a never ending process, at about 50 full bevel sets I was pretty confident I could handle most edgesQuote:
Originally Posted by Butzy
Well, videos can't show you everything. They cannot show you how much pressure is being applied, and they cannot show you how the razor honer is biasing the pressure heel to toe.
This is what you have to learn to hone straight razors well.
Cheers, Steve
Yep! This why I recommend using a Gold Dollar learning to hone. Don’t use a new razor or a quality vintage razor to learn. Who really wants to use a good $30.00 Sheffield only to have it seriously fouled up by learning to hone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesalot23
Circles are used as an efficient, quick way to remove metal to set the bevel plane. Nothing magical about circles. Half strokes work just as well.
Let me add: Is Lynn’s video the only video you have watched? He is a great master and teacher, but not the only one. (No disrespect intended). I started this journey just over two years ago. No mentors, no meet ups. Just a determination to learn. I spent hours watching videos and reading; here and elsewhere. Get the right tools. There are tools for “doing” and tools for “practicing”. Don’t foul up a good tool because you are practicing.
Besides videos there is also a lot of info on the older threads here. I usually find them via google search and then just dive in. E.g. http://straightrazorpalace.com/honin...d-bevel-3.html, post #29, http://straightrazorpalace.com/hones...ave-ready.html etc. I have found Euclid440's posts to be some of them most detailed. He walks you through the process and has pics. One pic is worth a thousand words:)
Also please go back and re read threads as time goes by. Things that didnt make too much sense initially suddenly do.
first times honing will have pitfalls, its just the learning curve, and Lynn doing circles is cause he can and speeds up the process, as a new honer you should be going slow, and as mentioned put ypour location in your profile, maybe someone close can help maybe in few months you can do it. by the way a great hone guy once said " honing is easy till it aint" Tc