My Razors won't keep an edge

I have a DOVO bismark and a Lee magnetic and sent both of them out to get sharpened. They came back fantastic thanks to a member of this forum. But after a couple of shaves both razors have lost that extremely keen edge. I have a DOVO hanging strop that I have conditioned with Fromm strop dressing and I've put yellow strop paste on it a few months ago. I strop my razors about 50x before a shave and I don't use the same razor 2 days in a row. What am I doing wrong? I do have a very thick beard, barbers have commented on the difficulty in shaving my beard. Do I need a different razor, strop paste, etc. I've only been doing this for about 10 months and still consider myself new to it. Thanks
Gregg

Some members here have said that their coarse beards benefitted from heavier grinds. Have you ever tried shaving with a wedge?
Because of the stiffness of the blade and the wide bevel, they can take more abuse before getting dull.

IF noone else has a beter idea, you might ask in the BST forum for a shaveready starter wedge, or maybe ask in the razors forums if you could borrow one from someone. I don't have a wedge ready at the moment but maybe someone else could help you with that.

I have a couple of wedges that are shave ready but I haven't polished enough to post yet. I'll let you test drive one if you like. Send me a PM and we'll work something out...

Can I assume that you have other razors that you've kept going for longer? Many pros hone the blades tight, really tight, and you should use a light touch stropping them initially.

Try something gentle like stropping on newspaper, .5 paste, or fireash. Or take it to a fine hone for a touch up.

Lots of possibilities with this scenario.

If the strop is dried out you may have torn the fin but that usually doesn't feel the same as dull.

I would have backed off on the stropping in the beginning too, but thats just me. Lots of guys will strop like crazy.

Even with the heaviest of beards, you should not need to rehone for a couple of months. I'm bettin' stropping technique. How much dressing did you put on the razor? How much pull or drag does it have when stropping?

Lynn

I'm not feeling too much drag on the strop, it's very smooth. Usually right after I use the strop dressing it has a nice drag, but how often should I dress the strop? Or should I use more yellow strop paste. I put about a pencil eraser amount on a few months ago. Is that enough?
Thanks,
Gregg

Dovo strops don't need dressing from new and only need it eventually after you start to see it getting polished. I am inclined to think you have over dressed your strop and as a result, apply too much pressure to the razor while stropping.
Clean the strop of dressing is my cure based on the limited info.

PuFF

Yea, I would say the odds are 10 to 1 that its a stropping problem. You probably dulled the edge while stropping.

For the benefit of us new to the effort, can you who are many much more experienced (regardless of this possibly having been gone over countless other times) discuss stropping technique rather than just saying that what we have here is a stropping problem?

Does one pull as hard as one can on the strop to absolutely minimize sag?

Does one let the strop sag somewhat? What is a reasonable droop?

Does one push and pull the razor on the stop with absolutley no pressure, if not, what amount of pressure should be used and how can one judge this force?

Does one avoid putting any dressing or compound on the hanging leather strop?

How does one determine if the hanging strop requires dressing and then what should be used and in what quantity and with what method of application?

serve away, good friends, as, hopefully, this only starts the volley -- Bruce

I agree with the fine gentlemen here, Being new myself i found slowing down and mastering your stropping technique really improves the life of the edge.

For the benefit of us new to the effort, can you who are many much more experienced (regardless of this possibly having been gone over countless other times) discuss stropping technique rather than just saying that what we have here is a stropping problem?

I'll take a shot at this as its early and I don't want to do my homework right now. Damn college. Anyway, in my opinion.

Does one pull as hard as one can on the strop to absolutely minimize sag?

Yes, but pulling "hard" is often overkill if your not going to use pressure. There is a relationship between how hard you need to pull and how much pressure you can then use. One should guard against sagging.

Does one let the strop sag somewhat? What is a reasonable droop?

No, but a little sagging will often both slightly dull the edge and roll it inward, which isn't always a bad thing. In very, very rare instances you want the edge to roll inward a little. Generally, no droop is called for.

Does one push and pull the razor on the stop with absolutley no pressure, if not, what amount of pressure should be used and how can one judge this force?

The pressure used is in relation to what your doing and how the strop is treated. The measure you use is to feel a little draw, this tells you your achieving the objective of aligning whatever fin might exist, small or "large". If you have a strop treated with a heavy sticky material, hold the strop really taught and use lots and lots of pressure you'll sometimes tear at the fin.

Using more than a light draw is often overkill.

If you have a strop treated with a light "slick" compound like EVVO oil (as I do) you'll not have as much draw and you can get away with more pressure.

A multitude of factors effect pressure: 1) How stiff is your strop 2) the treatment on the strop 3) the grind of the blade 4) the sharpness of the edge

So let me pontificate (my opinions only of course) on these 4 issues

1) A heavy stiff strop will not bend as much and will more likely roll the edge so lighter pressure is called for, I think they lean a little more towards being less sticky by nature too. I can use lots of pressure on my strop but I have to compensate with lots of taughtness (thank god I spend time in the gym). Then again, in some ways a heavy strop remains "stiff" on its own somewhat too and its natural stiffness can actual prevent sag.

2) Treat a strop with a compound that creates draw and you should use less pressure, its a simple enough concept actually. Apply a sticky fat or say, stiff lather to a strop and its effect on the edge is magnified, this can be good (with less pressure) or bad (with too much pressure).

3) Full hollow prefers less pressure, again its simple physics, a wedge can stand a little more pressure. Generally though, I wouldn't rely on the grind to support the edge against a strop, because the action of the strop is focused on the edge. Regardless of how taught you hold a strop there is a little tiny bit of sag at the edge where the razor is touching into the strop. It can be caused by compression or an actual bend between the contact of the edge and the point past the contact. The grind is more a protection against the user applying too much pressure into the spine area as a wider grind supports against the maniac that is pushing the blade into the strop.

4) A sharp edge has a finer fin and tears more easily. In a perfect world your starting out using very, very light pressure. Into the end of the month I use more pressure and more linen action to keep the edge going.

Does one avoid putting any dressing or compound on the hanging leather strop?

Its debatable what "one" should do. You need to treat the strop. The best method is with some kind of light oil or fat. I think rubbing the strop with your hand is the perfect method. I apply EVVO oil as I mentioned (because I"m impatient and don't actually like messing with all this stuff). I can use a sticky fat like they sell at classic shaving too, but then I'm more careful when I'm stropping a sharp/newly honed edge.

How does one determine if the hanging strop requires dressing and then what should be used and in what quantity and with what method of application?

If the strop becomes dry, brittle, or fails to produce any draw at all because of a glaze then treatment is probably called for. As everyone has probably figured out, leather, by its very nature, draws on the bevel of the steel and aligns any problems. Its better to be conservative on treatment with modern strops.

I think I'm in the minority here, but I find stropping, though important, overdone. I often shave without stropping at all. I often only strop 10 passes. Just like honing, I'd rather be cautious and re-strop rather than blow the edge

The best stropping I've ever done though has been on a well supported paddle strop using pressure. I have aligned the worst edges using a strop alone. That being said, for everyday use a hanging strop, held taught, treated only with EVVO oil or natural skin oils works great. When a strop treated like this does draw then I know the edge is really sharp. If I had a compound to make a strop draw then I'm missing the feedback, but the draw can produce its own sharp, smooth edge too.

So we end up with a YMMV (your mileage may vary) problem. I bet we have more strops on this forum then members and each is a little different. Just as with honing, there is also more than one way to effectively strop.

I apoligize now to the moderators if this is a little overboard for the Newbie section.

I can't add much to Alan's excellent post. I will only say that like most other things involving straight shaving everyone has to experiment and find what works best for them. I have several strops and if I'm using my Miller horsehide strop there just isn't any draw at all while all my other strops no matter the critter they come from will exhibit draw.

I usually do 60x before shaving on the leather and 20x on the linen. I try and keep the strop taught however there still should be some very slight (and I mean very slight probably no more than a 16th of an inch if that) flexing of the strop. Even most paddle strops are designed to have a slight flexing. As I recall when I was a kid and the barbers in those days used straights when they stropped there was some flexing of the strop.

I guess the important thing to me is to use no pressure , just the weight of the razor on the strop as you go up and down in an X pattern.

You know that story about the guy in NYC who asked how to get to Carnegie Hall and he was told practice man, just practice.

Yes, and then we have our intermediate techniques! In this method we can substitute pressure with sagging. A little sag with no pressure at all will, as I eluded to, roll the edge inward slightly. This technique will create a nice smooth edge. It commits to the same alignment, but with a slightly differing method. I find that a sag of as much as an inch can work. I find the method difficult to do though if your not careful. Make sure you know how to hone before trying to learn this one. :)

If you strop a razor on a sagging strop you'll actually notice that it doesn't deflect very much compared to the strop. It stays pretty well on top without digging in as much as you would expect. Do this with absolutely no pressure and you get a very nice edge. The only draw back is the edge doesn't last as long as it is also getting just slightly rounded.

Between these two methods you can learn to strop and create some great shaves.

The main thing to avoid in the long haul is using pressure and allowing the strop to sag. That is a recipe for problems.

Alan --

Thanks very much for this thoughtful reply. I'm another new user, and though I started out with a DOVO razor that had been sent out to Lynn by the vendor, this last time I shaved I noted it was pulling too much. I was utterly sure that it was my stropping technique, of course, and I do appreciate all the input available here.

I also have a pretty heavy beard (and I usually only shave every other day). I've only used the straight three times now, and it's a kick: only marginal bloodshed, and otherwise quite enjoyable.

Cheers,

Sweeney

I will also agree about the stropping however a nice wedge might serve you well. I find my razors can go months without anything more than a quick touch up on a paddle. Just my 2cents.:hmmm:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichZ

I will also agree about the stropping however a nice wedge might serve you well. I find my razors can go months without anything more than a quick touch up on a paddle. Just my 2cents.:hmmm:

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Maybe there's something about shaving commando that preserves the edge? LOL