honing/stropping 3 razors, mixed results

This thread is a continuation on my pre-crash thread on trying to get a sharp enough razor to shave with. During the past few days, i have been working with a set of 3 razors, honing them on my 4k/8k norton and stropping on my new Tony Miller Travel/Starter Strop. The new strop is very nice, and i am improving my technique on it with each shave test.

In the last few shaving attempts, i have notice a gradual improvement in the C. V. Heljestran razor i got from my uncle. I don't know much about this brand, but is says Eskilstuna Sweden on it. It is slightly wider(6/8 of an inch), shank to edge, than the other two razors i am working with. It is pretty smooth on my cheeks going down, and only slight pulling going across the grain on the cheeks. It starts to pull going up my neck(but not down) as well as around my chin. With my new strop, i started applying a little more pressure, which resulted in good drag. I plan to continue stropping and test shaving with it in hopes that the sharpness continues to improve. BTW, i think it might be a stainless.

The other two razors are a pretty new dovo bismark super and a J.A. Henckels. I have had no success getting the dovo sharp enough to shave with, it pulls on my cheeks and i stop there. I've tried different approaches to honing and stropping on the dovo, such as going straight from the 4k to strop and stropping using different amounts of pressure. The J.A. Henckels razor is slightly sharper than the dovo, but still uncomfortable to shave with on my cheeks.

If anyone has any thoughts about these different razors, i'd appreciate it. If i have a week of limited success I might see if anyone would be interested in taking a look at them, and evaluate how well they have been honed. My RS microscrope shows a sharp edge, but being a newbie i may be wrong.

-Dan

Are you using the pyramid system?
If not then do so. And be sure to use the various tests to evaluate the changes.

It is really difficult for us to help you when you give us no specific info on what you have done with the honing.

I had been using a pyramid system, but recently abandoned it because i read some information saying that its pretty hard to overhone a razor. I go from 4k to 8k after passing the thumbnail test, and because i haven't had success with the HHT, i have been using a thumbpad test to feel how sharp the edge is. About 20-30 passes on the 4k, and then about the same on the 8k. I bet someone will recommend i go back to the pyramid method.

I think Randy just did... :)

The pyramid method attempts to prevent
over-honing -- the Norton 4/8k can over-
hone your razor quite easily. Go back to
the pyramid and work on your stroke. No
pressure down on the hone, just the weight
of the razor to keep it flat on the stone.

Good luck!

- Scott

Dan:
If you are going to try this, first you need to quit bouncing all over the place, pick one person to listen to follow their system, and stick with it with one razor, until it works then go to the next razor....
After about 50 e-bay specials and a few brand new razors thrown in for fun, then you will start to figure out your own system for success....
Have someone go through it with you in PM, and keep at that system, until it works for you !!!!

Keep in mind there is more than one way to skin a cat, and to get to a sharp edge, We all started with just one system, then most of us have developed our own variation to that system, so that's why there are so many different points of view hitting you on how to hone...(going back to the pre-crash thread)

The one thing every system and every person agrees on though is that the bevel must be set and sharp before you move on to the polishing stones and grits..... let alone moving to strops

Good Luck

Okay, i'll stick with the razor i am having more success with and the pyramid system. My shave today was the best I've had so far, though I still am experiencing some pulling and should be able to do better. I'll try again tomorrow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Dan:
If you are going to try this, first you need to quit bouncing all over the place, pick one person to listen to follow their system, and stick with it with one razor, until it works then go to the next razor....
After about 50 e-bay specials and a few brand new razors thrown in for fun, then you will start to figure out your own system for success....
Have someone go through it with you in PM, and keep at that system, until it works for you !!!!

Keep in mind there is more than one way to skin a cat, and to get to a sharp edge, We all started with just one system, then most of us have developed our own variation to that system, so that's why there are so many different points of view hitting you on how to hone...(going back to the pre-crash thread)

The one thing every system and every person agrees on though is that the bevel must be set and sharp before you move on to the polishing stones and grits..... let alone moving to strops

Good Luck

---

I'm in complete agreement with the statement above by gssixgun! There is nothing more confusing than listening to a bunch of "experts" with apparently conflicting ideas! Just stick with one teacher and one method until you have a firm foundation on which to build from! At that point, when you've found your footing it will be much easier to pick and choose from the inexhaustible amount of information to be had based on your own understanding!

During the past week of honing, stropping, and shaving, i have gotten minimal improvements. I think i am doing better on my new strop, but am not confident in the edge coming off the 8k hone. I'd like to see if I could send my razor to one of you guys to take a look at. If i could get an experts opinion on the condition of the edge coming off my 8k norton, that would give me more insight into whether i am still struggling on the hone or ruining the edge on the strop. It would also be nice to have a shave ready razor to compare against while learning the honing/stropping process with my other razors.

Anyone around the Maryland area interested?

-Dan

You can always send it to me, I'm in VA.

Are you taking a close look at your razors edges as you hone and strop? Many use the inexpensive Radio Shack illuminated microscope. It's about $12 and about as big as a zippo lighter. It will give you 60x - 100x. 10x is not enough. Looking at your edge on both sides from heel to toe will inform your honing like nothing else.

Honing razors is a progressive process that abrades a bit of steel from the edge of the razor and polishes the bevel just behind the edge. Go from a coarser stone to a finer stone and then strop. A really dull and chipped edge can be re-set using a DMT1200 extra fine diamond stone, then use a norton 4k then an 8k and then strop.

You'll be able to shave with the razor after that process. To wring the last 10% of performance out of a blade, finish off with a belgian coticule or an escher stone. You'll be amazed at the difference that last step will make.

Howard, i have that exact microscope, and it was a very good purchase. There used to be a great thread(i think gone after server crash) that showed many pictures of a razor's edge under a microscope during a restoration process. There is also a picture of a shave-ready edge in the Library. I've compared against these pictures, and thought i was getting similar results. The one discrepancy I saw was that the picture in the library showed a shiny edge. I am not sure if this is just the result of taking a picture, but i haven't produced that during my honing/stropping and would have evaluated it as a wire edge if i did produce it.

-Dan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dancf82

...
If i could get an experts opinion on the condition of the edge coming off my 8k norton, that would give me more insight into whether i am still struggling on the hone or ruining the edge on the strop. It would also be nice to have a shave ready razor to compare against while learning the honing/stropping process with my other razors.
...

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You could try shaving right off the stone, then strop it and see if it is worse.

Either way I would take AFDavis11 up on his offer. I bet you'll get it back sharper.