Pull is a trap command

Yesterday, I had my first ever complete straight shave. It went well, with the chin being the most difficult spot to shave. I was sold a beautifully restored razor that came shave-ready by a regular here, so I know it was sharp, but I had a few day's growth, and it pulled like a very dull DE blade, so I finished up the difficult spots with my DE. Oddly enough, my old trouble spot (my neck) with any razor (DE or cartridge) was a breeze with the straight: zero pain, close shave. I stropped the blade last night after the kids went to bed.

This morning, with only 24 hour’s growth, I stepped out of the shower, looking forward to my shave with the idea that it’ll be much easier because I didn’t have all the growth with which to contend. To my dismay, the shave was worse. I’d used Proraso with shave oil yesterday and just used soap today, which is my usual lather with a DE. Perhaps the oil and cream made a difference, but man, that sucker pulled like there was no tomorrow. It felt like I was dragging a rusty razor across my face. The bright spot was, though, that using the straight on my neck was still a pain-free delight. It was the rest of my face that bore the punishment. It’s not so much that I nicked myself a lot (I got a few), but the pulling and the razor burn are the killers. And the shave is nowhere near the smooth shave I get with a DE, but I chalk the lack of a smooth shave up to inexperience.

I know it’s impossible for anyone else to know what I’m not doing right, but I presume that a straight razor shave isn’t supposed to be painful. I’ve watched Lynn’s DVD, and I’m going WTG on most strokes and not shaving areas without lather. The only things I can think of are that I’ve got my angle wrong and that I tend to forget to stretch my skin because I don’t with the DE. I suppose I may have also messed up the edge with the strop, but I've really no way of knowing that. Any other possible tips? At this point, I'm tallying up what I can sell the razors and strop for, and I don't want to go down that road until I've given this a fair shake.



Many thanks...

Hi-

I don't have all that many shaves under my belt at the moment, but your description matches my first few... Here's what has helped me:

* Sharp razor - you should be able to pop hair off your arm without any pressure. If it won't catch and pop the hair all along the blade, it's not sharp enough.

* Shave prep - the more the better. Hot shower, shave oil, good cream, the works. You might try applying the lather with your brush, massaging it into your beard with your fingers, and then putting on more lather with the brush. Works for me.

* Blade angle - lay the blade flat on your skin as if you were going to strop the razor on your face. Then, lift the spine ever so slightly until it shaves. In general you want to use the smallest angle possible (closest to flat on your face) - otherwise you're just irritatating your skin.

Also, make sure you're not using too much pressure when you strop. You can dull the blade pretty quickly. Don't ask how I know... :)

Does any of this help?

--Dan

I have been straight razor shaving for about 2 weeks now, and my first week was exactly as you described, other than with the neck... I still can't get my neck as close as I was able to with the Fusion.
I agree with drb above and those things all make a big difference.
I concentrated (which means took my time and didn't try to just get it done quickly) on getting my stropping technique down, and really focused on light pressure and how the blade was touching the leather and my razors have "popped" the hairs much better since I started doing this.
I also found that my lather was too dry, and I have been making sure it is the proper consistency the last few shaves, much better. Part of the "problem" with my lather is that I bought a Moss Scuttle (awesome!) to keep the lather warm, and the heat from the water was causing the lather in the bowl to evaporate a little quicker than normal, so I just add a little more than I used to.
But I would definitely say give it some time and focus, I still am not 100% happy with my shaves, but they get better every time.

Certainly don't give up yet. If the blade seemed to be blunter after you'd stropped it then you might have been stropping incorrectly so make absolutely sure that you've got it right; at the end of each stroke the blade must be flipped over with the spine staying on the strop and the edge going up and over.
It might also be that you've an ultra-tough beard that dulled the edge on the first go and now it needs more stropping than you gave it. Anyway, whatever the problem is I'm sure that you'll soon get it sorted and be giving yourself good shaves with the straight, so don't sell the things now.

My first few straight shaves were a bloody, plainful mess, and not very close. With time, they got better and better. I found the learning curve was a bit steeper than I expected. Now, I get good close comfortable shaves... when if first started to click it was awesome. Now, I look forward to shaving. It definately took a bit of peristence for me.

You just have to have alot of patience with a straight. It will takes many weeks before you get really good shaves and months before you are really comfortable with the razor. That's just the way it is. We usually recommend when you have a straight honed by a honemeister to not strop it the initial use for obvious reasons. Other than that its just practice. Watch the blade angle, about 30 degrees and no more, minmimal pressure with the razor-let the blade do the work not you, good prep, no pressure on the strop and just keep at it. No fancy strokes in the beginning just finish with a DE or cartridge the first few shaves.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TULIP

The bright spot was, though, that using the straight on my neck was still a pain-free delight.

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Then you know how to do this. That sentence proves it!

Maybe you can improve on prep or Cheeks, chin, whatever - it might *seem* like you're doing the same thing as you are on your neck but probably not, there's too many variables. Basically I'm saying keep up the practice, if you can successfully shave any part of your face, eventually you can shave all of your face. Try thinking about the scything motion, it's probably what's happening on your neck without necessarily realizing it. It's very subtle, you can feel when you're doing it right.

I've seen several references to the "scything motion", but I don't know what it is. Is it similar to the motion on a hone? Or is it more like you keep the heel in place and pivot around it, moving the toe in a circle? (Obviously that's a very highly exaggerated description.) Clarification would be great.

-Josh

I'm sure someone has a link with illustrations, but
essentially it is a stroke of the razor with mostly
downwards motion perpendicular to the blade, and
a small amount of forward motion leading with the
toe of the razor.

This is akin to a slicing motion that you would use
when cutting a tomato, the small amount of forward
motion assists in the cutting process.

- Scott

Okay, that sounds pretty straightforward. Thanks!
-Josh

I don't think I would lead with the toe. I have mostly square points and I can see myself poking the point of the razor into my neck. I always lead with the heal much like honing on my waterstone.

bj

Many thanks for all the feedback.

I had a much better shave this morning, and I determined that the pulling issue stemmed from my angle of attack: I was way too steep. I significantly lessened the angle, and things went much more smoothly. I still have a number of bugs to work out, particularly around my mouth and chin, but I'm still pretty green.

Thanks again,
Trent

Ther you go trent Practice and paitence, keep at it. You are still in the lower part of the learning curve, you'll get there. Every one has a bit of trouble now and then. it may be with a particular razor, soap, cream, What ever, just go slow and you'll get ther. Heck I am having trouble with using creams right now, never used them befor, always used soap, but I have heard about the great shave they give. I got ahold of Collien, Got the basics and three small creams, and I am working at it.

Phil

Even with a square point you can lead with the toe.

You don't push the razor forward, you simply angle it so the toe is always ahead of the heel.

Ex. For a down stroke, you push the razor down. But, you start with the toe a little lower than the heel. This will give you the angle such that the back edge of the teeth slice through the beard.

Don't ever push the razor forward because a deliberate horizontal motion is hard to control and you will get cut.

I got crappy, uncomfortable shaves until I figured this out. Once I got this, shaving is a breeze--in fact, I find now that I can get a decent shave with a slightly dull razor--though it is not comfortable and I prefer a sharp one.


Hope this helps.

Paul

Two things come to mind. First off, it does take some time for your skin to get used to a straight razor blade; so if you skin feels irritated then give your skin a break for a day. After two weeks if should get much better. The second thing is that a properly stropped edge will shave much more comfortably than an edge that has not been properly stropped. I stropped the TI razor properly before I sent it back to you and you said that your first shave was the best, so maybe your shave would benefit is you spent some more time on the strop. I would recommend about 50 light passes on the bare leather. It sounds like you are off to a really good start, just keep practicing (take a break if your skin needs it) and the good shaves will get much more common.

I've shaved with both the TI and the razor that Kenrup sold me, and since I've figured out the angle thing, both have given great shaves. Granted, I'm still on the steep edge of the learning curve, but I'm getting it.

I spent quite a bit of time with the TI last night stropping it, and going slowly and deliberately, I went 50 laps. The shave this morning was superb, and I received three nicks only on the second pass when I got cocky and careless. A reminder that I'm still pretty green. I think I have the strop thing down so long as I take my time...unless I'm getting cocky about that, too.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that it takes your skin time to get used to a str8. I suspect this being reposted as fact when it really is an unverified speculation.

Here is my reason:

This AM I decided, on a lark, to shave my left side with my Gillette Mach III Turbo. I shaved my right side with my new Pierce Chemical Str8.

Then, I splashed on my Bay Rum aftershave, as I always have since starting to shave str8.

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

OHMYGOD, Talk about burning, my left side burned like it was on fire. I was hopping around from one foot to the other. It has *never* stung like this on skin that was shaved with a str8.

So, it is obvious that the Mach III Turbo did way more damage to my skin than my str8 did.

In fact, now that I think about it, I *never* used aftershave when I was shaving with my Mach III (the last 6 years). Maybe now I know why.

Another way to test this: Grow a beard and then shave it off. Any toughening or callusing of the skin will go away completely within 3 weeks of not shaving.

I bet an experienced str8 shaver will have no trouble shaving afterward and will have no irritation.

Anyone game to try?

( I can't, I am still practicing honing so I shave twice a day :eek:)

When I first read your post 3 things came to mind...

1. Angle of the blade - the rule of thumb is that the spine is 2 spine widths away from the face, approx 30 degree angle

2. Pressure - the mistake most newbs make is to try and remove all of the whisker with the first stroke and that leads them to press to hard. Think in terms of "beard reduction" with each pass. It is much gentler on your skin.

3. Stropping - perform this just before each shave, not the nite before. The reason has to do with the memory of steel, oxidation and other things..

Hope this helps,:)

Great advice everyone...thanks.

Randy, thanks for the "two spine width" rule. That's a lot easier to envision than a vague idea of what thirty degrees looks like.

Most of the issue has been angle in addition to me being new, and once I figured the angle thing out, I was doing a lot better. So far, every shave has gotten better. I did 30 passes on canvas and 30 on leather this morning with the TI before the shave and had a great shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toolarts

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that it takes your skin time to get used to a str8. I suspect this being reposted as fact when it really is an unverified speculation.

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Actually it is based on my experiences. I used to wear a gotee and when I decided to shave it off a while back my skin became irritated in only this area (even though I used the same blade/technique) for several shaves; the skin on the rest of my face was fine. After my skin got used to the blade the irritation in this area completely went away.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TULIP

Great advice everyone...thanks.

Randy, thanks for the "two spine width" rule. That's a lot easier to envision than a vague idea of what thirty degrees looks like.

Most of the issue has been angle in addition to me being new, and once I figured the angle thing out, I was doing a lot better. So far, every shave has gotten better. I did 30 passes on canvas and 30 on leather this morning with the TI before the shave and had a great shave.

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Sounds good! It just gets better.:)