Arkansas stone

I have a beautiful Revisor razor that my son gave me for Christmas. I thought I could just strop it and go but I'm ending up with less than close shaves, severe abrasions and a lot of frustration. I watched Lynn's video and tried to buy a honing stone on e-bay but most of them don't list the grit. I finally ordered an Arkansas stone from Excalibur and then read on this site (but can't find it now) that an Arkansas stone is not a good idea for a razor that just needs a touch-up, which I assume is all it needs. The stones I think I need that are available from Classic Shaving are all back-ordered. How do I know what stone I need and where can I get one? Please help! My face hurts. :shrug:

It probably needs a good honing maybe more than just a touch up. If you are totally new to the straight razor I highly reccomend sending it out to one of the honemeisters for a professional job. That will get you going with a known quality sharpening job. A real plus when you don't kow what 'sharp' really is.

Otherwise you can get some of the best stones here:

http://theperfectedge.com/

First welcome. Second, you just said you watched Lynn's DVD, he's pretty clear what stone he uses, the norton 4k/8k. That's the most popular hone. Cheapest price as far as I know is with Howard (his username here) at www.theperfectedge.com
You may want to have somebody else hone your razor first and know what a sharp razor is. Plenty of great honemeisters here - Lynn himself (adjustme69), heavyduty, joshearl, afdavis...

Hello, does anyone know anything about the above mentioned "Arkansas Stone" from Excalibur Cutlery?
Could anyone estimate an approximate grit?
I was also wondering if anyone knows much about Excalibur Cutlery in general (quality wise).
Thanks

Grit (especially with an Arkansas stone) does not tell the whole story. By grit, you would assume them to be much too coarse to hone a razor...not so. I've honed a few on soft white Arkansas, and finished on a Surgical Black Arkansas. These were among the smoothest shaving razors I've honed. The problem is that Arkansas stones are VERY SLOW cutting stones. This is the main reason that water hones tend to be preferred for razors.

Cheers,
Ed

Don't know what kind of Arkansas stone you got from Excalibur Cutlery (site blocked here... grr!), but I got a translucent Arkansas stone which I use between 600 grit DMT diamond whetstone and a 0.5 micron diamond pasted hanging strop, and if I feel up to it, newspaper (seriously!)

I've gotten eBoy clunkers to shaving sharp and into my shaving rotation using the above combination... I just use water with my translucent Arkansas, though, and yes, it does cut slowly... but you can get that wonderful "suction" sensation when the edge and spine are polished "just right" :) You have to experience it to know what I'm talking about (right folks?)

Paulo, would linking from this post give you access? I'm not sure how these things work. http://www.excaliburcutlery.com/cart...t_detail&p=728




ForestryProf -regarding your explanation, if I may extrapolate from your description, and use the bevel microscope pics from Zowanda's website to try and visualize what's going on at the edge.
http://www.tzknives.com/razorbevels.html

Is it possible to have the same grit but, to have a deeper or shallower grit........., at a microscopic level, could one "grit" (singular) be taller or shorter?
Using this logic, I would say that the arkansas stone would have "short grit"........relatively.
Am I "right out of 'er". Or is this theory possible?

I contacted Excaliber and they tol me the approximate grit is 800 to 1000 which sounds far too course for honing. The man I was talking to told me however, that he hones his once a month with it and gets great results. Sound likely?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by northerner

Hello, does anyone know anything about the above mentioned "Arkansas Stone" from Excalibur Cutlery?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by northerner

Could anyone estimate an approximate grit?

I was also wondering if anyone knows much about Excalibur Cutlery in general (quality wise).

Thanks

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by northerner

Is it possible to have the same grit but, to have a deeper or shallower grit........., at a microscopic level, could one "grit" (singular) be taller or shorter?
Using this logic, I would say that the arkansas stone would have "short grit"........relatively.
Am I "right out of 'er". Or is this theory possible?

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With the waterstones, you're always exposing fresh abrasive as you hone. But with an arkansas stone the abrasives on the surface wear down over time, so at the microscopic level the surface winds up looking kind of like a cobblestone road. The abrasive grains may be wide, but they cut very shallow (and hence work very slowly).

Because of this, Arkansas stones need a break-in period before they really deliver the goods. And because there's no slurry between the steel and the hone you need to make sure the hone is perfectly flat (though once you get it that way it stays flat for years). But I've gotten really outstanding shaves off of my translucent arkansas - better than I've ever gotten off of my old coticule or my thuringen. It takes a lot of patience to get there though, and the small size of my translucent (only 4" long) does *not* help in this regard - I really need to get a bench-size translucent.

As for the Excalibur stone, that sounds like a hard white arkansas - much coarser and fast-cutting than the black and translucent hones that Ed and I are talking about (accd to the Norton chart the black and translucent arkansas stones are more in the range of 5-6k grit). But I suspect the hard white would work ok once it's broken in, as long as you make sure to follow up the honing with a reasonable number of laps on the linen side of your strop to refine the edge. I've never tried it however, though I have done something similar by going from a 2k waterhone to the linen, and it worked ok. Took a couple of minutes of stropping on the linen to get the edge to where I was happy with it.

I've used both water and kerosene on arkansas stones to good effect for honing razors, though lately I've been using Kroil (made by the Kano Corporation), as it seems to do a better job of keeping the stone clean.

I recently bought a transucent Arkansas and a pasted strop. Going from the stone to the green side, then red and finally a (non-pasted) hanging strop gives me the sharpest edge ever; a perfect shaving edge.
I've been using WD40 as a lubricant on the stone.

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Originally Posted by Timeo Danaos

I've been using WD40 as a lubricant on the stone.

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Kroil is a penetrating lubricant like WD40; however Kroil comes in liquid form so it's somewhat less messy to apply to the hone.

Thanks for your explanation mparker762. Also, thanks for the "grit" leadduck.

As a follow up, I was wondering how long would the average "break in" period be?


What is the best way to break in?

I have a vintage clauss that is a "butter knife", would this be a good place to start? , or would it take an eternity. (I do have a lot of spare time on my hands these days).

- Cheers

I did not break in my stone at all, or even lap it. If it gets better with use I'll have no complaints.
An Arkansas cuts too slow to set a blunt razor in real time. I use a DMT diamond plate for that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mparker762

Kroil is a penetrating lubricant like WD40; however Kroil comes in liquid form so it's somewhat less messy to apply to the hone.

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I didn't think you wanted to get into the habit of using penetrating lubricants especially those with detergents on hones. I thought that it could dissolve the matrix in many mad made oil stones and cause them to crumble.

If I'm off base let me know. I don't think is a problem with a natural stone but... just a bad habit that could ruin some others.

Wild,

The Arkansas hones are natural quartz rock and are not fazed by most chemicals, at least those you'd be willing to touch with your fingers. I'm not a chemist, so don't quote me here, but I'd be willing to bet that the Arkansas novaculite will resist attack from just about anything you can dip it into.

I am a Chemist and an Akansas will not be degraded by these lubricants.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

I didn't think you wanted to get into the habit of using penetrating lubricants especially those with detergents on hones. I thought that it could dissolve the matrix in many mad made oil stones and cause them to crumble.

If I'm off base let me know. I don't think is a problem with a natural stone but... just a bad habit that could ruin some others.

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I suspect that most oilstones are detergent-resistant, since they're as likely to get used with 10W30 or WD40 as they are with proper honing oil.

I've also used Kroil on a Thuringen to good effect.