Diamond Like Coating - why can't it be used on straight razors?

Diamond like carbon based coatings (DLC) have been used on tools, files, chisels and engine parts, not to mention surgical implements. Why can't they be used on straight razors? It'd vastly improve the hardness of the blade, not to mention make it smoother(0.1 drag co-efficient - better than teflon, course the spine wouldn't be coated). You potentially wouldn't even need to strop a razor that had a coating on it, it would simply keep its edge for years and years. This is already being used on some cartridge razors..

Note that this is a 5-10 nanometer coat. (is the blade even finer than that at the edge?,)

any reason why it hasn't been done (to my knowledge)?

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/beeway-to...5520&l=f&fid=1 <-- more info

Razor blades are 0.45-0.55 micron wide at the edge. A 0.5 micron coating would increase that to 1.5 microns wide at the edge, which is pulling-hair-out-by-the-roots dull.

and then when sharpened it would be honed right off or messup out hones. Nice idea though... if you talk to one of the custom guys like Joe Chandler and Robert Williams they might be willing to give it a try and see for sure though. Sure would cut down on rust.

I emailed the guys at a DLC coating place in texas, they informed me that the size of the carbon modules is 5-10 nanometers so it'd be un-noticible. I am currently working out costing.. it is interesting at the very least.

I'm not sure how I'd actually see any benifit from this. Only the edge basicly touches my face, so the only drag is the edge running into hair. I dry my razor on a towel so rust has never been an issue even with storing them in my bathroom drawer. Stropping takes less than thirty seconds and I doubt this would prevent the razor from needing re-honing on a semi-anual/anual schedule. I just don't understand the point.

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

I'm not sure how I'd actually see any benifit from this. Only the edge basicly touches my face, so the only drag is the edge running into hair. I dry my razor on a towel so rust has never been an issue even with storing them in my bathroom drawer. Stropping takes less than thirty seconds and I doubt this would prevent the razor from needing re-honing on a semi-anual/anual schedule. I just don't understand the point.

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It would prevent the razor needing honing..

And then what happens when you get a chip or some other imperfection in the edge?

Ever feel like your wasting your breath . . .

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Originally Posted by keljian

I emailed the guys at a DLC coating place in texas, they informed me that the size of the carbon modules is 5-10 nanometers so it'd be un-noticible. I am currently working out costing.. it is interesting at the very least.

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That website you sent doesn't really indicate a 5-10nm thickness, the thinnest coating I found on there was 5 microns even if the individual particles are smaller. I never heard of DLC before though so I'm probably just missing something there.

Sure, try it out on a sharp, sharp razor and let us know what happens. But I'd send them a junker for the experiment. If it doesn't work it sounds like there's no way to remove it.

And if you ding the razor it might be trashed, the DLC sounds like it will eat a hone for lunch.

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Hi Rohan,
The DLC surface is simmilar to a superfine cobblestone road. The carbon nodules have a size of 5-10 nanometers, so maintaining smoothness is not an issue. We
The price per blade is related to the number of blades you need coating on.
What do you use the blades for?

Thank you,
Mugurel

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direct reply to the email I sent

a nanometer is equivalent to .001 microns.
For those of us who have done our research a razor edge is somewhere between 2 and 4 microns.
so at it's thickest it would be 1/10th of a micron.
If the coating process wouldn't affect the edge of the blade, and the razor was extremely well honed, there might be a benefit. but when shaving the edge tends to bend on a microscopic level, and I doubt the coating would stop that.
Stropping would still be needed to align the teeth, and if the coating was brittle in any way, it would most likely loose it's effectiveness rather quickly.
worst case scenario when it cracked from flexing, it might take part of the edge with it, and the remaining coating could make honing a chalenge. :shrug:

I'd say try it, but not on anything expensive... maybe a Wapi.

Seems like the real question is how much it costs.

I just bought a nice 3 pinned Kinfolks Crow Brand razor on Ebay for $21.00, honed it over the course of 1/2 an hour, and shaved with it (outstanding).

It will shave like this with a few strops each morning for the next 3 months at least. If the coating cost me a total of $15.00 (including shipping both ways) it wouldn't be worth it.

On the other hand, if Classic Shaving did this in bulk, and they could add this for an additional $5.00- $10.00, it might be worth it.

For newbies who don't know how to shave OR strop, it might just be worth and additional $30.00 for such a coating.

I dunno.

For me, it kinda defeats the whole luddite purpose of using a straight razor. Damn them nucular plants.

M3 razors have been DLC coated (which is somewhat of a grammatical error... diamond-like coating coated!) since they were introduced, and how's that working out for keeping those razors shaving sharp for extended periods?

As far as making your razor harder, think about it. Putting a brittle coating that is almost infinitesimally thin on top of a base metal is *not* going to make the razor appreciably (I would argue, not even measureably) stiffer. (Tooting my own horn... check out my patent entitled "System and method for performing bulge testing of films, coatings and/or layers", #6,050,138). Technically speaking, hardness is an engineering term that gets confused with structural stiffness, and also gets confused with material yield strength and ultimate tensile strength... all those terms get bandied about by folks without regard for their very specific engineering meanings.

DLC could possibly affect friction... it can definitely prevent oxidation/rust... but changing the structural properties of a razor, it really won't do. But, if your razor dulls due to oxidation and not mechanical dulling, it may have an appreciable affect on keeping a razor edge sharp... but all bets are off the first time you have to use a pasted strop or hone. Drying your razor properly and keeping it coated with mineral oil or tuf-glide will work nearly as well, plus you can strop and hone your razor when you need to with no worries.

If you're worried about the stiffness of your razor, get a ceramic razor. If you're worried about the hardness, yield or ultimate strength of your razor's metal, get one made of S30V or ZDP189.

My opinion is that if you're worried about the longetivity of your straight razor, you probably aren't prepared to give it the minimum level of TLC that has been shown again and again to give most straight razors at least 2 lifetime's worth of useable service.

<although I'd *love* to try a S30V or ZDP189 razor sometime... mmm, powdered metals! say it like Homer! aaaaaaarrrrrrrrhhhhhhh!!!!>

If you want to go with the newest razor blade coating then I am sure that Gillette can help you out.

DLC would be fantastic in terms of abrasion resistance (microscopic scratches and chips), but deformation (bending of the edge) is not going to noticeably affected. The integrity of the surface coating at the edge after stropping would need to be seen, but if it holds up, it may reduce the need to regularly hone, unless the reason for honing is due to fatigue failure at the edge from repeated bending (a possibility with stropping/steeling blades).

Just a thought: try and see if the replaceable blades used in e.g. a Shavette or Feather are DLC and try that 1st to see if you like it.

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Originally Posted by keljian

It would prevent the razor needing honing..

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So then I'd have to give up my stones and honing?:thinking::shrug::thinking:

Seriously, why would I want to eliminate such an enjoyable and challenging practice that is integral to this art?

To me that would be like telling a car buff that adding a technologically advanced component to his collector car/s would mean that he'd never have to/be able to tinker with those pesky engines any longer and could just sit behind the wheel and drive.

Or telling a gardener that some new GMO seeds could mean he'd never have to actually "garden" again.

I could think of many many analogous examples....................

Chris L

I have not used a cartridge razor in probably 10 years so I'm not up on all the "advancements" I only see the entire aisle of them hanging there in the stores. Do similar coatings on cartridge edges mean that each cartridge lasts a year (somewhat of a rhetorical question but somewhat genuine as well) before it can be thrown in the garbage?

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Originally Posted by keljian

It would prevent the razor needing honing..

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Here you go then.

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao


http://www.theinfinityrazor.com/Defa...ag=blog&bhcp=1

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Originally Posted by Wildtim

Here you go then.

:roflmao :roflmao :roflmao


http://www.theinfinityrazor.com/Defa...ag=blog&bhcp=1

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What a riot! Is that a real ad or a hilarious comedic sketch? :roflmao:roflmao

Chris L

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Originally Posted by Chrisl

What a riot! Is that a real ad or a hilarious comedic sketch? :roflmao:roflmao

Chris L

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Nope they are real, I have seen this commercial on the television before. I thought it was hilarious at the time. :roflmao

Chief

While waiting in the supermarket for my wife to decide what brand of eye liner to buy I had a look at the M3 razors being sold in Bangkok. They now say their blades have DLC, Diamond Like Coating. I think the Like in this case means it is nothing like diamonds. Kinda like their ultimate shaving system is nothing like the ultimate shaving system.