Tips for first Japanese Straight Razor (newbie needs a lot of help)

Hey Guys,

I've been a long time reader, started wetshaving a couple of months ago with a DE and felt like it was time to move onto a straight razor. Felt like a Japanese straight razor was a good mix of form, function, and design.

While I didn't exactly expect to win it I put in a bid for a Kiyotaka Ichihara Straight Razor and won. (If any of you want to give me feedback on this razor please do!)

But at this point, I don't know what to do once I get it. I've read the B&B Interactive Guide to Straight Razor Shaving and I'm not quite sure how the tools or techniques apply to a Japanese straight razor.

I've read on many threads some controversy on whether to hone and/or strop with a ratio from one side to the other. Whether to strop at all. How to hone. What I need to hone.

So if anyone can give me some pointers on what I'm going to need to start using this razor once I get it. I have everything I need from the shaving cream/brush/lather make accessories. I really just need to know what I need to get it honed/stropped and prepared to shave. Any tips on techniques would be appreciated too!

Thanks

Do a forum search for 'Tosuke' and / or 'Iwasaki'.

There are several threads dealing with the shaving and honing aspects of Japanese straight razors.

*Please forgive me if any parts are too rudimentary - some of this I copied from a PM I sent previously, and I believe thorough information will be useful for future searches.*


DISCLAIMER
I have been shaving with my Tosuke exclusively for 6 weeks now after having learned on a Wapi for 4 weeks. I am actually more familiar with the Japanese style simply because I've spent more time with it. Though I'm sure there are others out there that use one regularly as well, many have mentioned that it serves mostly as a collector's item. It is different in technique and maintenance, but the amount of effort you put into learning and using a Japanese razor is no different than that which you would put into a western style. I am no expert, but I have become familiar with this razor after having experimented on my own. Here is a summary of what I have learned so far, including most of the information that can be compiled by searching through previous threads.



HONING

• need 12k or similar polishing stone

Honing is unique in that it is a 3:2 ratio. First keep the concave side down and move forward-backward-forward. Then flip the blade so the flatter side is down and move forward-back. Repeat until sharp.


Recommended stones are typically Japanese and around 12k grit. I cannot see any need for a Japenese stone rather than a stone of different origin other than your own appreciation for historical authenticity, yada yada. I personally use a Spyderco UF and then a Shapton 16k to finish it off, and after stropping I pass the HHT on my super fine blonde hair WITH the grain, so you can imagine how sharp these can get. Really I believe any finishing stone (12k or higher) will work great. The steel on these blades is harder than normal, so you will need to use some pressure initially and lighten as you progress. And actually I would hesitate to recommend the Chinese 12k since it's naturally slow cutting time will only be worse with this harder steel.


STROPPING

• stropping is a must

First let me say that stropping is absolutely necessary. The difference is just like stropping any other razor – you will achieve a much smoother/sharper edge after stropping. In my experience (real experience, tested today, yesterday, etc. both before and after stropping), it is the difference between HHT and no HHT and much more comfy shaves.


Stropping is done in the 3:2 ratio as well. While some people argue that this ratio is not necessary, some of us have found that it does in fact work better, so why argue with results? I have found it easiest to do a forwardpass-backwardpass-forwardpass-backwardpass-forwardpass (FBFBF) motion and repeat for a total of about 30 of these passes where 1 FBFBF = 1 pass. This correlates to 60 strokes on the side of the razor that receives the least strokes (the flatter side), which as mentioned in a study documented by thebigspendur, is an ideal number. Just like with honing, you will apply a bit more pressure than with a European razor. Unlike honing, you will ALWAYS lead with the spine.


TECHNIQUE
Since the blade is not symmetrical and neither is the edge given that we have honed and stropped in a 3:2 ratio, the standard 30 degree rule against the face can be thrown out the window. The only real way to determine a proper shaving angle is by trial and error.

Make sure the concave side (the side with the engravings) is on your face, and the blank side is away from your face. This side of the blade is the one meant to be used for shaving. As you are learning to use a new tool, it is best that you stick with this side until you are comfortable and have found a good shaving angle and technique. Using the other side of the blade works perfectly fine, but be aware you will need to discover the angle for this side as well as it will be different. It is up to you whether you want to use both sides or not.

Also, it's worth mentioning that the blade on the Tosuke, since it's not as lengthy as a normal straight, is fairly light in comparison. So although you will want a light touch, this is referring to how hard you press the razor against your face. What you don't want is a very light stroke, because it will feel like the razor wants to bite the hairs more than slice through them. Don't go superfast, mind you lol, but probably about the speed you would use a Mach3.


Begin Rudimentaryness
To begin, start with a stroke or two with it flat against your face, just to get the feel of it - it almost certainly won't cut anything at this angle of zero degrees, but it makes a good starting point.

When you're ready, increase the angle to just a wee bit so the spine is barely off your face for the next couple passes. Remember to keep a light touch, we are trying to isolate only the angle variable. Keep the same angle throughout any one pass.

With each pass (or whenever you're ready), change the angle to be slightly more until you notice that the hairs are now being sliced off.

This method of incremental trial and error will allow you to find the most comfortable (and least irritable!) shaving angle, because you will have noticed that the lower the angle, the smoother it feels against your face. If you feel like the razor is irritating your skin, try lowering the blade angle and see if it still shaves - it's really easy to accidentally creep that angle up.

Oh yeah, and welcome by the way! :)

Actually dude you got one hell of a good deal, even if you had have paid the full price.

I believe that seller is a member here who claims to have extensive knowledge on Japanese straights. Shame he can't read Kanji, because that is actually stamped with Inoue Tosuke's name ;) Perhaps he just use one picture for all his sales, and the razor you get will be different. Makes no difference though, as I said its a bargain price, highway robbery actually, there is no difference between names on these razors either because as some don't actually know is Mr Inoue would actually make razors for people (mainly knife shop owners) and stamp their name on the blade for a small fee.

On another note, its perhaps not the best choice when learning to shave with a straight but YMMV. Hope it serves you and your children and your children's, children well. :tu

Thanks for all the help guys! I do have a couple of questions for skiblur.

First off when you talk about the concave side (which you say is the side with the engravings) vs the other side, which according to the honing section, you say is the flat side. So just to be clear, the side with the writing is concave (probably easier to notice with the razor in hand) and the side that has the two tone pieces forged together is the more flat side which is the "2" side of the "3:2" ratio.

Secondly, I guess I'm a little bit confused by the forward backward on the honing. So basically you mean with the concave side, move the blade forward, the instead of flipping it "over" to the flat side, rotate the blade 180 degrees so the concave side is still down and move back towards you, and then do it again to get the 3 part of the 3:2. Then flip the blade over to the flat side and do a forward and backward pass only?

And then when stropping, moving the blade forward with the concave side down, flipping it over to the flat side and moving it backwards, flip to the concave and forward, flip to the flat side backwards, and one more with the concave to complete 1 set. Then do it again 60 times right?

(I'm just clarifying to make sure I do end up trying to hone or strop in the wrong manner).

Now just a couple other questions. With traditional straights, it seemed like most people recommended using a 4000 then an 8000 to get the hone part down. Based on your post, a 12k is enough for the hone. Now is this because Japanese blades are originally sharpened a little and just need to be finished? I'm probably going to buy a stone tonight for honing just making sure I have my bases covered. Or should I go with the method you said you do, finishing off with a 16k? Also after getting the stones, should I be flattening them with a diamond hone as well? If so what should I be using.

And then last but not least, what do you recommend for a strop. It looks like from your instructions that I should be doing 60 passes with FBFBF to achieve the 3:2. But are we talking 30 on a canvas side 30 on a leather? or just all on a leather side?

Sorry for all the additional questions, your original post definitely gave me a lot of insight and was extremely helpful. Thanks for all the input guys!

First off when you talk about the concave side (which you say is the side with the engravings) vs the other side, which according to the honing section, you say is the flat side. So just to be clear, the side with the writing is concave (probably easier to notice with the razor in hand) and the side that has the two tone pieces forged together is the more flat side which is the "2" side of the "3:2" ratio.

Correct, sir.

Secondly, I guess I'm a little bit confused by the forward backward on the honing. So basically you mean with the concave side, move the blade forward, the instead of flipping it "over" to the flat side, rotate the blade 180 degrees so the concave side is still down and move back towards you, and then do it again to get the 3 part of the 3:2. Then flip the blade over to the flat side and do a forward and backward pass only?

Correct, except for the 180 degree rotation part. When moving "forward," the blade is meant to lead, and when moving "backward," the spine will lead. This is considered unconvential compared to traditional western honing.

And then when stropping, moving the blade forward with the concave side down, flipping it over to the flat side and moving it backwards, flip to the concave and forward, flip to the flat side backwards, and one more with the concave to complete 1 set. Then do it again 60 times right?

If we call that 1 set, then repeat it 30 times. Explanation: 30 sets means that the one side of the blade will get 90 strokes and the other will get 60 strokes, which is optimum.

(I'm just clarifying to make sure I do end up trying to hone or strop in the wrong manner).

Whatever you do, always lead with the spine on your strop. Leading with the edge will slice through it. (Best advice I can give, hah).

Now just a couple other questions. With traditional straights, it seemed like most people recommended using a 4000 then an 8000 to get the hone part down. Based on your post, a 12k is enough for the hone. Now is this because Japanese blades are originally sharpened a little and just need to be finished? I'm probably going to buy a stone tonight for honing just making sure I have my bases covered. Or should I go with the method you said you do, finishing off with a 16k? Also after getting the stones, should I be flattening them with a diamond hone as well? If so what should I be using.

You will need to flatten any hone, otherwise the hones work against each other if they're not all flat. The most-recommended flattening stones are the DMT D8C and the Shapton GDLP.

I have used the Norton 4k/8k to straighten out my edge a little, as it came with a slight frown. I cannot offer any insight as to why, but I have only ever read on SRP that the suggested hone is a 12k, so hopefully someone else can contribute to this recommendation. I would say all you need is the 12k or equivalent, unless your blade has some nicks in it.

And then last but not least, what do you recommend for a strop. It looks like from your instructions that I should be doing 60 passes with FBFBF to achieve the 3:2. But are we talking 30 on a canvas side 30 on a leather? or just all on a leather side?

Please see above for clarification on the number of sets. The numbers I provided are for leather only. I would start from there and experiment with different combinations of canvas and leather since everyone's technique will result in different results.

For the strop itself, Tony Miller makes the best strops available, and at competetive prices too.

Sorry for all the additional questions, your original post definitely gave me a lot of insight and was extremely helpful. Thanks for all the input guys!

No prob :) Have fun, hope this helps!

When you get the blade you will see that one side is convex and the other is concave and that will be clear to you.

Any info you may have read relating to honing western razors you need to forget about when you hone a japanese razor. The only thing I would add to the great advice you already got is when you hone on the 12K you need to be exerting considerable downward pressure on the hone and this is the secret or art of honing one of these razors. Too little pressure and you can hone for a month of Sundays and nothing will happen and to much pressure and you know what will happen. The other alternative is to use a diamond pasted strop. They tend to work very well with japanese razors especially at .5 grit. When you get the razor you'll have to inspect it and see what the condition is. If the edge has chips which has to be honed out your in for an adventure.

I agree learning to use a straight with one of these can be a little challenging. Its like learning to drive with a manual transmission. Just a little more challenging.

Keep us informed of your progress.

So I'm sure this has been answered somewhere... The DMT D8C is the coarse grade 45 micron version. What's the benefit of using this over the Fine or Extra Fine? is it cost? or ease of use?

a) its coarseness makes it a fast cutter
b) a finer plate without holes will stick to the stone like it is glued on, due to the vacuum between the stones.

So I was gone for a week. My razor got in, it seems really sharp already but as it still needs to be honed a stropped I'll see where it goes.

I just bought a Spyderco UF and am waiting till tomorrow to buy a Tony Miller Strop. After I get those in I should be good to go as far as all of the hardware goes. I'll try and do some before and after shots of the razor when I have time.

I just got one of these- It is a lot smaller then I imagined as I have only seen it in picutures.
It is sharp but not HHT so I will strop it according to the method suggested here.
What I have not figured out is how to shave using only the concave side against my face. This seems really awkward as it promotes multiple different ways to hold the razor while shaving. Does anyone have a video of doing this or pictures of how to hold it on different sides and places on you face and neck as well as passing it WTG and ATG.
Thanks.
Headdoc

I imagine I will get ripped for saying this, but there is no benefit apparent to me in only shaving with the concave side. I can assure you that I've used two different Japanese SRs and neither was created problems for me using both sides.

Purists will say that the "correct" way to use a Japanese SR is to only use the concave side and I believe it--but if it doesn't hurt the blade or me to use both sides, then I'm willing to be less than a purist!

And I'll note that what's-his-name (let's use the Harry Potter naming convention) over at B&B says that Iwasaki said his razors were intended to be used with both sides--of course, his razors appear to have two concave sides, so that may explain that.

now ducking, Dan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dcarmell

I imagine I will get ripped for saying this, but there is no benefit apparent to me in only shaving with the concave side. I can assure you that I've used two different Japanese SRs and neither was created problems for me using both sides.

Purists will say that the "correct" way to use a Japanese SR is to only use the concave side and I believe it--but if it doesn't hurt the blade or me to use both sides, then I'm willing to be less than a purist!

And I'll note that what's-his-name (let's use the Harry Potter naming convention) over at B&B says that Iwasaki said his razors were intended to be used with both sides--of course, his razors appear to have two concave sides, so that may explain that.

now ducking, Dan

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No need to duck.

My wife would agree with you as a matter of fact. Everytime she uses one of my Wustoff Kitchen Knives to pry something up. So what if it has a slight bend in it it still cuts fine.

This is after all a YMMV type of thing and if you need to use both sides and you don't notice any difference no problem. The only thing to remember is that if you do decide to use both sides you don't have the bragging rights to say you have mastered the razor because you haven't. But if that is unimportant to you...then its unimportant.

As far as any videos the closest thing is a video someone did sometime ago using a Japanese style feather. If you do a search you will probably find it unless someone else knows of it.

because of the way the thing is made there really aren't too many options as far as holding the thing goes. On the iwasaki on the convex side there is a flat area on the heel portion which is a finger rest and one finger is supposed to go there either the thumb or index. I'm not sure which but I use the index. I don't recall if the Tosuke has the same and I'm too lazy to go check. If you shave both sides you don't have that option when you turn the blade around. Well yea you do but its very awkward feeling because you have to keep the finger on the inside which needs to be close to your face.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

My wife would agree with you as a matter of fact. Everytime she uses one of my Wustoff Kitchen Knives to pry something up. So what if it has a slight bend in it it still cuts fine.

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I bought a friend a set of Henckels kitchen knives. When next I saw them, they were like your wife's. I wasn't too upset, especially since they were the low-end Henckels made in China, but the next Xmas, I bought her a set of the famous serrated Ginsu knives. And guess what? She likes them much better!

Unlike your wife, though, my use of the Japanese razors doesn't damage them or me, so the analogy breaks down a little. But I promise you I won't be saying I've mastered my Japanese SRs--or anything else I've learned a bit about here--for a long, long time. No question I'm a newbie!

Thanks also for your tips on honing these razors, very helpful!

Dan

We left handed folk find your right handed razors gauche.

-Bob

So I got the strop in as well I tried to hone it with the Spyderco UF and then strop it. Now I don't know if I did it wrong or anything but I definitely can't get it past the HHT. I did try shaving with it just as a trial, it worked ok... but not that great, not what I was expecting.

Being not used to just how sharp an edge is just by sight I'm guessing I need a coarser hone to work the edge and then finish it with the UF. So I bought the Spyderco M and F and it gets here on Tuesday so maybe that will work better...

On a side note I really like the Spyderco hone... it works really well... I've tried some of my kitchen knives on it and they are amazingly sharp with it, I'll probably try sharpening those down to a razor edge just for fun too :)

Don't start using a coarser hone with the Tosuke. That is not the answer. Be sure you are using considerable downward pressure as you hone. That is the key.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thebigspendur

Don't start using a coarser hone with the Tosuke. That is not the answer. Be sure you are using considerable downward pressure as you hone. That is the key.

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+1

Also applies to stropping.