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Hi everyone. I've recently started shaving with a straight blade, but I cannot seem to get the edge as sharp as I know it should be. It pulls, and is damn uncomfortable, though I do get a close shave in the end. I've bought Lynns DVD, and I'm stropping as i should. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong? I'd be grateful for any help.
Many thanks,
Colin
did it pass hht?
It could be your shaving technique - wrong angle of blade, wrong angle of direction, pressure, speed, visibility, insufficiently stretched skin, wrong angle against grain, etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Colin
It could be your pre-shave prep - low water temperature, poor lather quality, incorrect lather application, short length of time allowed for lather to soak into hair, poor brush, etc.
It could be the sharpness of the razor - is it dull, and if so, why? Has it been insufficiently stropped or honed? Has it been improperly stropped? Has it incurred damage? Is it poor quality steel? Are the handles weighted and balanced correctly? Is the blade efficient with your beard type?
It could be any one of these or a combination of these things. For me, none of the razors I have ever used has been a primary or even secondary problem. To know for sure, you could send the razor away to an expert to sharpen it.
If you are new to straight razor shaving (like I am), there are so many things that could be wrong that it can be impossible for one to know exactly what is wrong. Practice will iron these things out.
Practice, practice, practice!
And enjoy it!
Tell us a little more. Did you buy the razor new? Have you had it honed yet?
It could be your stropping and it could be your shaving technique, ie - angle.
Not just the angle of the razor to the plane of your face, but also the sloping angle of the razor heel to point. The classic straight razor technique is short point leading strokes.
Stropping is an art. Just watching a DVD, or online video, will give you a good start. But only practice, trial and error, will result in perfection.
The main points for stropping are taught strop (of course you will read differing opinions here on just how taught or how much sag is allowed. My experience is not to use a death grip, but fairly taught. Let's say it should bounce a quarter)...and, flat razor (press the back of the razor down onto the strop first. Maintain that pressure and roll the edge down onto the strop. Try and keep most of the pressure at the back while stropping, and the remainder at the edge)...with diagonal stroke, point leading. Use firm enough pressure to feel drag. (See photos from old barber manuals included in recent posts to actually see the positioning).
Keep at it.
Scott
+1 on the fact that it could be and probably is due to multiple factors. This straight razor shaving bit has a hefty learning curve. But.....anything worthwhile usually does.;):D
My first few shaves were brutal. DON'T do what I did: get frustrated about it and push through the shaves. Sakes alive did I have irritation; I even gave myself a mean crop of ingrowns on my chin, which had never happened to me before.
Prep is huge. A factoid that originated from I don't know where says that dry male whiskers have the tensile strength of copper wire of the same thickness.
What's helped me a lot recently is making my own pre-shave oil in a pinch.
Take about 1/2 teaspoon of olive oil, add about an equal amount of water and mix with your finger just to emulsify the oil, then after your shower or washing your face, rub the oil in on a wet face. Then, lather and shave. Doing this has virtually eliminated nics and cuts and leaves my face conditioned post shave rather than utterly dry and stripped.
Oh and the reason I mentioned this.....it also helps DURING the shave and makes it easier for the razor to move across the face.
One other bit of advice: If you're drawing the razor across your face straight down or "head-on" into the whiskers, change your passes a bit. Rather than have the blade hit the whiskers perpendicular to them, tilt the blade either heel down toe up or vice versa whichever is easiest. I'm not talking about raising the blade up off your face or tilting the blade angle any more than recommended, I'm talking about skewing the blade for your pass. Woodworkers skew chisels and planes when they are pushing either over the wood. A skew cut rather than a straight on cut provides for more cutting surface hitting the object (whiskers) resulting in a shearing rather than a chopping.
Chris L
Apologies, but I don't know what hht is.
Thanks so much. I guess this is trial and error to a certain degree. The razor is a new dovo bismark. I've honed it when it probably didn't need it, and am worried that I've done some damage. I think, also, that judging by what you say my prep is not good enough.
Thanks so very much for your replies. How smooth should a straight razor shave be compared to a good quality safety razor? My point is, is a bit of pulling something that is just part of straight razor shaving?
Thanks
And do I have to do anything to a brand new razor? Does it need stropping or honing etc?
Prep is a big deal. If you have time, shower and get your beard real wet and clean. It will soften. Shave soon out of shower. Lather your face, then strop so as to give the lather time to work. Lather again and shave.
Yes, a brand new razor is not shave ready by any means. Have one of the experienced people on the forum bring it up to shave ready for you. You will then know what a sharp razor is about.
Thanks so much for all your advise Lee. I'm truly grateful. There is absolutely NO WAY I'll ever go back to safety razors, so I'll keep at it, as you say. One more thing, I purchased a leather strop with my razor. Do I use the red side too, or just the smoother pinkish side? It may seem a silly question, but I'd rather look daft than not ever find out.
Thanks,
Colin.
Colin,
I noticed that you said you honed the razor. Since I am an edged tool user (carpenter) and my experience in sharpening my tools goes way back, I thought that honing a razor would be child's play. Nope, not for this kid! While I didn't destroy anything, I also didn't make my razors shaving sharp either. It is possible that your razor's edge may need further attention, from a bona fide honer, or from your further refined techniques before it is truly a shave ready tool. I can hone my own now, but it has taken a while to learn that razor-easy differs greatly from leaning on a dull plane iron.
Also, I think the irritation and burn is a reminder for the tyro that the razor is a really sharp tool and one which does not ask for, but rather demands, the user's complete attention and respect.
good luck,
If I shave with my straight the way I used to shave with my disposable cartidges, my straight will pull on hair where the throwaway will not. The straight razor requires more accuracy regarding making contact with your hair because the straight gives you more control (more options to succeed, more opportunities to fail)Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
My razor rarely pulls on my hair now, although it often did when I first started. Through trial and error, and partly process of elimination from the lists in the posts above, I discovered my stropping was occasionally dulling the razor to a degree, but the biggest culprit for my pulling was a combination of blade angle, angle of direction, and skin-stretching. I would be surprised if it is exactly the same for you, because there are just too many factors to eliminate all at once in troubleshooting a good shave. You would do very well to go to one of the meetups and let someone watch you shave, prep, and strop and give you pointers.
I have also found that at times I will improve in one area at the expense of forgetting another area. For example, when I began to concentrate on getting my blade angle correct, I would subconciously regress to applying more pressure to the blade. Because of this effect (which I call the simplistic idealist I'll-have-a-great-shave-today-regardless-of-my-lack-of-practice thinking) I would catch myself doing the same silly things over and over, but to a lesser and lesser degree. Hence, practice, practice, practice!
Where did you obtain pinkish leather? Now that's daft!Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
"HHT" stands for Hanging Hair Test. There are many things written in this forum as well as some examples on Youtube. It's one of several tests that can be used to check a razor's sharpness, but does NOT ensure that a razor passing the HHT is sharp enough to shave. I can get edges to pass the HHT off of my Shapton 2000 grit ceramic on glass stone...........I wouldn't want to shave with an edge off that stone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
Sorry to say it's quite likely you did not bring your razor to shaving sharp by "taking the bull by the horns" this early on and trying to hone it yourself. "Damage"? Unless you nicked or chipped the edge, I doubt you damaged the edge but may have dulled it. Factory edges are almost never shaving sharp anyway, so your involvement may have had little detrimental effect. Yes, prep is huge with any wet shaving method.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
Smooth? A razor should not pull during the shave. In my opinion (IMO), the phrase "wiping whiskers off the face" may be used too often is situations where it shouldn't. I'm not saying a razor couldn't get sharp enough to feel like it's wiping away whiskers but to me that would mean literally no friction and no resistance of any kind. My razors cut/slice whiskers off my face very easily with virtually no resistance; my razors don't literally wipe whiskers off my face and I doubt most people's straight razors do. Or their definition of "wiping" is different than mine. I tend to be a literal person rather than figurative.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
After the shave, your face should be as smooth as you want it to be, including being so smooth when wet, it has the sensation of squeeking. Smooth as glass. As a rule, such a final smoothness requires more than one pass.
Almost definitely a new razor needs to be honed and all razors need to be stropped prior to each shave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
I've brought this up before, long time ago, but there are degrees to the HHT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisl
For instance: C, C+, B-, B, B+, A-, A, A+ are all passing grades in many schools. But a C and an A+ are two very different grades.
I've found the same holds true for the HHT. While your razor may pass the HHT, it may be doing so with less than an A+. And in that case the shaving quality will be commensurate.
Just something to consider.
Scott
I would agree. I have very fine blond hair on my head. Ultra fine. So fine that for the first six months of trying to hone my own razors, I could get edges that would pass HHT easily with my wife's hairs (not coarse but less fine than mine) but could NOT no matter what I tried, use my own hairs to pass the HHT. Keep in mind these edges were still shaveable edges. Not dreamy, but virtually no to no irritation.Quote:
Originally Posted by honedright
A few months back, an older barber was nice enough to just give me a few older razors, one of which is a sweet Dubl Duck Dwarf spike point. I stropped it up when I got it from him and wow, my own hair....."tink" passed the HHT. It became my "reference razor".
Since then, I don't stop tuning an edge (chromium oxide has sure helped with this) until using my own hair passes the HHT easily.
Also, speaking to the degrees of HHT, a hair pressed on the edge that bends and then cuts to me is not as sharp as an edge that severs the hair in two with no hesitation, bending, resistance, etc.
This sounds crazy, but now when my edges are "there", I can take one of my ultra-fine hairs and when one is touched to the razor's edge, the hair almost explodes in half. Each half of the cut hair actually lands a small distance away from the edge rather than falls at the foot of the razor. It's really cool. No hesitation, no bending, no futzing with the hair to only have a 1/4" from the root end hit the edge, etc.
I still believe what some have said: An edge that does not pass the HHT or is polished past the point of passing the HHT can be a great shaving edge. With that said, I have yet to have a shave ready razor of my own NOT pass the HHT easily.:shrug:
Chris L
Thanks so much everyone. This is the first time in my life that I have been in a forum, and you have all been so kind. I've learned so much from your replies in such a short space of time. You have all doubtless saved me from pain and bleeding, and I'm very grateful for that.
I guess this is a deal of knowledge and a whole lot of personal experimentation. I have more than one blade now, and so can experiment with one of them, leaving the other as my more sure thing. It's odd, the reaction that people have to straight razor shaving. When all sixty colleagues found out that I had purchased one, and was using it, they thought I was insane. Strangely, they all want to watch me use one. The women say it makes their blood run cold, but that they'd have to watch because its just so damn masculine, and the men all say its something they have a complete fascination for and they'd love to try it. Either way its something i love and will never look back.
Taking any stray hair that falls from my head or gives way with light encouragement and using it to keep playing with the HHT on my razor edges has become a guilty pleasure. After doing just that tonight after a pre-stropping (before the final stropping tomorrow morning on the razor I've picked to shave with) and performing an HHT, I realized that really, only one half of the hair jumps away from the razor....I'm holding the other half!;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisl
This is great to hear, Colin. I personally look forward to your contributions here and sharing your experiences. 60 colleagues? How did they all find out you're shaving this way now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin
Chris L