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Ok another newb question.
I started doing leather work.
To hone the swivel knife you use a stick of white jewelers rouge(rub it on card stock) and hone the edge.
I've used it on my pocket knives and those things are crazy sharp!!!:eek:
I actually think I can shave with one of my pocket knives...kinda on a bet right now.
So, where in honing the str8 process would this be considered?
All the guys at work want me to sharpen their knives for them.
Any input?
The difference between sharpen knives and honing a razor is the difference between racing bumper cars and NASCAR. It's a whole different concept.
Mixing apples and oranges...you get fruit salad right?
So, you wouldn't even attempt to use the rouge on a str8.
Lets start with semantics! If it is white then it is not jewelers rouge, as rouge means basically red which I occasionally use to polish a razor edge or two. I have heard of others using the white compound but I don't remember the results! Take a test drive and see what you get, and tell us how it works out! Remember not to lift the spine as you would with a knife while sharpening!Quote:
Originally Posted by AmmoHouse
I rarely use jewelers rouge and I have not used it for sharpening. I sometimes use Dovo red paste on strops but I'm not sure that it is same grade as jewelers rouge. You can experiment with it and you it might work for you. Some of the differences in sharping razors from knives is pressure and angle. Lynn's DVD has a very good sharpening section and I would recommend you watch it to get an idea of what honing a razor entails.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmmoHouse
I'm playing with an old junk razor ($5) right now.
Its got some nicks in the blade so I'm trying to hone it out, going slow and trying to work on form.
I'll try the rouge when I think this blade is ready...I can't tear it up, it was a cheapie anyway.
I have Lynns DVD on the way!
I agree that rouge usually means red, however in the leatherworking industry, jewelers rouge is in fact white, it may not be the same micron size as the red stuff but in all honesty that is what it is called, I am not trying to stir the pot but to verify the terminology if you want to look up on the tandy leather website jewelers rouge and it will in fact be white, all basic swivel knives come with a small amount of "jewelers rouge" and in all honesty I am guessing it is chromium oxide, but for the sake of argument, as an indusrty standard in leatherwork it's refered to as jewelers rouge. The Chromium oxide that I think it is, should be around .5 micron but there is no garuantee that is exactly what it is, I do know that it does remove very small amounts of metal as my swivel knife strop got metalic looking over a short amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by JMS
As far as the difference between sharpening knives and straights, KenRup and I have had this discussion before and I can tell you first hand it's a whole different ballgame. I am still trying to figure out a way I can use a polishing stone to really get a nice edge on my knives but I just don't have the steady hands to keep the angle constant. I am trying to create a sharpening jig to make it easier. We shall see how that goes. Good luck,
Kevin
The white stuff breaks down to a finer size faster then green chrome oxide. I think it is titanium oxide. it would be used as a final step in the honing process, much like rottenstone.
To remove nicks use a 1000 grit, I use sandpaper.
That takes 25-75 laps.
kbs...thanks
I know my swivel knife is pretty sharp after using the white rouge:D
I've used it to sharpen/polish my pocket knives and they're scary sharp.
I may take an old piece of leather and rub it with the stick and see if I can strop with it.
Like I said, I'm gonna keep playing with it and this junk razor...we'll see.
Man this site has lots of good info!!!
Don't get me wrong it is definitely a different ballgame between knives an razors as KenRup has said, but I think the white stuff is probably the same as some of the strop dressings that some use. I think you are on the right track though. I wish you all the luck in the world. I chipped a blade on one of my wapis right after I got it and this is how I fixed it. I took and bought 1/3 sheets of 1500 and 2000 grit wet dry sandpaper. I then put a piece of leather for cushion under the sandpaper and a piece of good flat wood under that. When the chip was about gone I switched to the 2000 grit. After the chip was gone I went straight to the strop and used the pasted strop first a few times just to polish out any rough spots, then I used a plain strop for what seemed like forever. I checked the blade every 20 passes and before stropping it passed the HHT fairly consistently, but it wasn't a pop, it was more of a drag then bend and finally cut. By the time I was done the entire blade would pop hairs and also sliced them in half. It was very interesting. Be careful to read up on honing and stropping first and go slow and carefully.Quote:
Originally Posted by AmmoHouse
Good Luck.
kbs_74
I did use the white Jewelers rouge to on a couple straights. On a Joesph Elliot silver steel blade it worked great, shaved the arm hair, face hair anything that got in its way. It was a really comfortable shave.
I also tried a George Wostenholm Pipe Razor and no matter what I did I dont think it would cut butter. It came off my barbers hone easily cutting the hair on my arm but as soon as it hit the strop it seemed to dull right up. :shrug:
If you look at the edge it puts a mirror shine on the bevel. Once I get some hones I'm going to try testing it out some more.
Bob
I have a theory on this I am no expert and I can't prove my theory but to me it makes sense. I have a 12000 grit polishing stone and after using it on either of my blades I know it's sharp and if I try it on arm hair it cuts right through it. (I had BBS arms for a week) However if I try a HHT the hair seems to float right over it without cutting at all. However if I take and strop the blade even just a few passes it will pass HHT no Problem. My theory is that the 12000 grit stone polishes the bevel so well that the hair slips right over it. Then the strop will put microscopic serations on the blade that will "catch the hair and slice right through it. Someday when I have the time I will have to get a microscope to test this theory but until then I know what works.Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBob
kbs_74
I've used some white rouge on 3 straights, 1 Joseph Elliot Best Silver Steel, 1 WM. Greaves&Sons and a W&B Medium size hollow ground. The rouge worked on the Elliot, and didn't do anything favorable on the other two. So it might be the Silver Steel is slightly different than the steel of the other two Sheffield's. Since I don't have a microscope I really haven't had the opportunity to examine the bevel, but the rouge leaves a highly polished edge imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBob
I decided to email Tandy about their white rouge, they sent me a copy of the MSDS and this is what it said
SECTION 1. IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE/PREPARATION AND COMPANY
PRODUCT IDENTITY: WHITE ROUGE
COMPANY IDENTITY: THUNDERBIRD SUPPLY CORP
SECTION 2. COMPOSITION/INFORMATION ON INGREDIENTS
85-95% ALUMINUM OXIDE
I made a call to Thunderbird and asked about the grit size, (they first had to call someone else) , they told me the best that they could find out was that it is some where between 1 and 5 microns. Must be what they call quality control
Looking on the web I found this Grit to Micron chart that says it could be between 4500 and 14000 grit.
http://www.facetingmachines.com/grit-mesh-micron.shtml
I suppose that each bar could be checked to see what it does under some magnification to see if its useful. Right now it seems my Silver Steel blade is the only one that responds to it.
Bob
That makes sense as swivel knives are typically made out of stainless steel of some sort. They also are although sharp, they are not required to shave hair and mine has never been something that I could cut myself on. Althout I did poke myself on the finger once with it but it didn't draw blood. I will say it cut through leather effortlessly though.Quote:
Originally Posted by CactusBob