New member, another bad start...

Hello all,
I just now joined the forums. Not sure if I should be starting a new thread or not, haven't used message boards for a long time.

Anyway, my experience so far with a straight razor has been similar to jeff and others. ("Newbi, worst shave of my life" thread).

I bought a Thiers-Issard Sheffield steel razor from classicshaving.com Beautiful thing. Instructions said ready to shave, not to strop until after a few shaves. Also a Belgian coticule stone and paddle strop from Bestsharpeningstones.com Supposedly the strop is for sharpening on one side, non-pasted leather on the other. Using a top-quality badger brush from Vulmix.

Been experimenting for more than a month now. Wont' bore everyone with the tales of bloodshed and raw skin. Here's where I am now:

The razor seems to shave ok when one side is against my face and hardly at all when turned around the other way. Any advice on how to correct this?

I'm currently overseas, as I frequently am. One reason I decided to switch to a straight razor. Availability of cartridges is limited and their quality often poor. But, frankly, I just always wanted to master the art of using a straight razor.

Resources on hand include the Belgian coticule (supposedly 8000 grit) and the paddle strop with factory applied sharpening paste on one side. I did buy a 4000 grit stone also but didn't bring it with me, thinking I would only need to maintain the fine edge.

Needless to say, my experience with honing and straight razors in general is very limited. The only thing I have on my side is time, ha, ha, ha.

It would seem to me that the bevel is not even on both sides. I do have a cheapie magnifying glass with which I've been studying it but I'm still not sure how to go about correcting this to get it shaving decently no matter which side is against my face. I need to flatten the surface of my hone, too. Made a start with this using 60 and 100 grit sandpaper but after what seemed like a lot of material removal, it still isn't flat and even. Also doesn't produce a thick slurry like it did initially. I will soon have access to a flat (hopefully) plate glass table top on which to try again.

At it's best, when testing on leg hair, the good side causes the hairs to pretty much pop off right at the skin. Bad side doesn't cut at all, except oddly enough, at an angle greater than 30 degrees when it pretty much rips the hair out.

Sorry this post is so long but reading the other newbie posts I figured the more experienced guys need to know equipment and condition details in some depth.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

I'm pretty new to this myself and did the same thing, ripped my packaging open lathered up and shaved-ouch. You need to get and watch Lynn's video- World of Straight Razor Shaving. Until then I'd suggest doing some reading on the forum here(honing section) and talking with people here- they're great! They've been tons of help to me. I've actually gotten my Dovo sharp enough to give me a very comfortable/ close shave, still not as sharp as it could be but as you'll find out - honing is a form of art. Welcome aboard and happy shaving!

This is a very strange situation indeed.
Can you describe how you are lapping the stone?

A good counter top works OK for backing up the sandpaper when lapping. And you really shouldn't need to form a slurry on the coticule if the blade is shaving as you describe.

As for the "one side shaves but the other does not" issue, I don't know what to say. I have never experienced such a problem. Can you describe your honing sequence?

And are you stropping the blade after honing? If so, how fast do you strop? (one pass up and back takes: 1sec, 2sec, 3sec, ...?)

good thing you have plenty of time - that's invaluable commodity when learning to hone.
watch the Lynn's videos on honing on youtube. I think the main page of this site has links. i'd say you need to get your hone flat to start off. as russel said you should be able to get flat enough surface from a countertop - i am a bit troubled by removal of a lot of material, but that's subjective anyways. or wait till you get your plate.

I don't want to comment on the particular way your razor cuts as I can only speculate - hopefully some of the experienced members can help better.

You've got a long hill to climb. Stay away from the sandpaper. 60 grit? Is that a Typo?

Break your hones up into course and fine and never make it more complicated than that.

I would prefer some work on the course but you don't have it with you now, so . . .

Hone on the side that doesn't cut for a bit, lets say 40 strokes on your 8k, then do some circles honing on both sides, then onto regular edge leading strokes again. Stay away from the pasted strop.

To measure your bevel balance use the strop for now, not your face. When you strop both sides should feel the same. You'll probably note a big difference in the beginning. When both sides produce draw, and the draw is equal, you've arrived. Keep the strop taut.

So strop test, then hone on one side only, strop test again, repeat, circular hone, strop test. One side honing again, strop test, evaluate if things are getting better or not (if not hone only on the other side for a bit). Circular hone, strop test again. This could take a bit on 8K. But you have time while your DVD is in the mail. ;)

Don't leap to conclusions as you do this that one side or the other needs to be honed, although start with the side that is not shaving well. After that, use the strop to read the bevel by feel, sound, etc. It sounds difficult but its not really. Well compared to ripping at your face its downright easy.

From there you might want to re-post as getting it sharp is another animal.

Sending it out to be corrected/honed is another easy approach.

One thing that I did that really helped ... find a barber that's either retired, or close to retirement, who has straight razor experience and ask him to look at your blade and hone it for you. Watching my barber hone the blade really opened my eyes.

Hi , first reply , i found Lynns dvd about the most usefull thing i have yet seen on honing.

I read that yer overseas but it might still be more cost effective for you to send the razor to be honed by somebody that has all the right stones and the experience to correct an uneven bevel...

Now here's the offer, since I have been debating for awhile about buying a new TI, you and I can help each other out...
I will hone, strop and bring that new razor of yours to shave ready,,,, for free!!! You pay for shipping here and back and I get to test shave a new TI for free :D.... Then I can decide if I wanna drop the coin on one for myself :hmmm:
This helps you and I out....
If yer interested please PM me and we will set it up!!!!

Welcome to SRP :y

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I read that yer overseas but it might still be more cost effective for you to send the razor to be honed by somebody that has all the right stones and the experience to correct an uneven bevel...

Now here's the offer, since I have been debating for awhile about buying a new TI, you and I can help each other out...
I will hone, strop and bring that new razor of yours to shave ready,,,, for free!!! You pay for shipping here and back and I get to test shave a new TI for free :D.... Then I can decide if I wanna drop the coin on one for myself :hmmm:
This helps you and I out....
If yer interested please PM me and we will set it up!!!!

Welcome to SRP :y

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Outstanding offer and I think the best idea so far. You really need to start with a truly shave ready blade. Very generous GSSixGun!

[quote=konofan;209114 Here's where I am now:

The razor seems to shave ok when one side is against my face and hardly at all when turned around the other way. Any advice on how to correct this?


Thanks.[/quote]
Sounds like your razor has a wire edge , and the edge has been rolled . I would give it 6 passes on the coticule , strop and shave . If it still shaves the same way it was , give it 6 more . If that doesn't work , go back to the 4k .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konofan

Hello all, ....

The razor seems to shave ok when one side is against my face and hardly at all when turned around the other way. Any advice on how to correct this?
....

At it's best, when testing on leg hair, the good side causes the hairs to pretty much pop off right at the skin. Bad side doesn't cut at all, except oddly enough, at an angle greater than 30 degrees when it pretty much rips the hair out.
...
Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

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I'm having trouble divining the good and bad side of the razor... you are using the thin sharp edge both ways right? do you have any pictures of the razor in question?

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your input. I really appreciate it. And thank you SixGun for your generous offer.

I will need to re-read all the posts and digest things. But, for now, I better clear up a few points.

1) I do not have the 4k stone with me, only the 8k.

2) The strop I have is the paddle type, so maintaining tautness is not an issue. (I don't think.) In other words, it's mounted on a wood backing.

3) The 60 and 100 grit sandpaper was used for leveling the stone. Silicon carbide floor paper for sanding marble and granite. I figured a stone's a stone's, thought it was appropriate. I worked on it for quite some time, certainly more than couple of hundred strokes and was still unable to achieve a flat cross sectional area.

4) I'm currently in the Philippines, will be in Indonesia by the end of the week. Finding a barber who uses a straight razor is very easy. I get a great shave down the road, hot towels, full treatment, etc for about $1.50. Deeper in the provinces I can get the same thing for less than buck. No, folks, these are not typos, ha, ha, ha. Shave, haircut with straight razor touch up of the hairline and neck and shoulder massage all in air-conditioned comfort for about $3 including tip. Anyway, I digress. The thing is, most of the barbers in this part of the world use the disposable blade type of straight razor.

5) With regards to SixGun's offer, very generous and thanks again. Problem is, I do move around quite a lot. The only way to assure I'd get it back quickly and safely would be to Fedex it back and forth, the cost of which would likely be close to what I paid for the razor.

6) Ok, difficult to describe but here's the cutting situation. One side has the TI logo in the hollowed portion of the blade. When that side is against my skin, the razor cuts ok. When the other side is against my skin, it cuts hardly at all.

Thanks all for the warm welcome and advice. I'm far from being discouraged and still remain committed to mastering straight razor use and maintenance. Hopefully, the idea of using this ultra-modern medium to put heads together and solve problems associated with a centuries-old tradition will be interesting for all of us. I'm really getting a kick out of it.

Hope that clears things up a little. If any more info is needed, please let me know. I only get online once or twice a day and not for very long. It's all a lesson in patience for me. As I understand it, that's a good thing to develop.

ah, i see now so perhaps it is just the angles you are using and well as a slightly dulled razor. when you hone you very lightly stroke it with the edge leading then turn the razor over on the spine and then repeat with e the other side so that the sides and directions althernate? then you strop with the spine leading but rolling the blade on the spine at the end of each stroke... making sure to provide each side with equal passes?

Hello again.

I followed AFDavis11's instructions. Seem to be making some progress. Also, while browsing the honing forum I discovered that the other side of my yellow coticule may in fact be a blue sharpening stone. I ordered a set and got a separate blue stone too, so I had assumed that the back of my yellow was just backing. It seems to be fused though, not artificially attached.

If I do in fact have a coarser stone available on the back side, would you recommend doing anything differently?

Thanks all, for your time and advice.

Forgot to mention I've contacted the distributor to confirm what the backing of the coticule is. Hope to hear back. Really didn't get a lot of information from them. I guess most of their customers are familiar with these things already.

If it is fused, instead of glued, you have a natural combo, and the blue side would be a Belgian Blue Whetstone. It is slightly coarser than the yellow, but also A LOT slower. A yellow with slurry will still cut faster than a blue with slurry. People will disagree, but it is my strong opinion, that the blue is not much more than a cheaper alternative for those cases where buying a yellow is not all that cost-effective (like the final polish on a wood chisel). Since you already have a yellow, that blue won't do much for you. Don't make the mistake I made, when I was new to this: I saw the Blue as the 4000 side of a Norton and the Yellow as the 8000 side of a Norton. I translated everything I read about honing on a Norton to my Blue/Yellow combination stone, and was lost for a long time. A coticule is an entirely different beast than a Norton.

The fact that you can't get that stone flat, might be because it is rounded, and you might be rocking it while lapping. You could correct this with lapping the hump away on a smaller peace of sanding paper, before you move to the normal lapping routine again.

Here's my advice for your razor:
Look at the bevel. Are both sides approximately of equal width? If not, get a thick slurry on that coticule and hone, with circular motions and a bit of pressure on the side that is smaller. Check very often. A coticule cuts fast when used in this fashion.
When both bevel sides are even, start doing normal strokes. Least possible pressure, always turn the razor over the spine. Every 10 back and forth strokes, drag the razor, without pressure, in a cutting motion over your moistened thumbnail. It should sink just a bit into the nail (leaving a scratch), which causes some dragging resistance while doing this. You'll notice the difference as soon as you get there. (This is called the Thumbnail Test, abbreviated TNT)

Now, get rid of the slurry, wipe of your razor, get some clean water on that same coticule, and do 50 very light, even laps (preferably X-strokes, you might want to look that up on the forum).
Next, strop the razor about 60 laps on a leather strop. (Taut strop, just enough pressure to feel some drag from the razor on the strop)
Now it's time to shave and find out if you did well. :)

Kind Regards,

Bart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dave5225

Sounds like your razor has a wire edge , and the edge has been rolled . I would give it 6 passes on the coticule , strop and shave . If it still shaves the same way it was , give it 6 more . If that doesn't work , go back to the 4k .

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Great Advice! :tu