straight vs feather or shavette

Question for anyone who used both. So I started with shavette and has been getting really good shaves and a few months ago decided to go with a real straight. Somehow I was under impression that straight blade would give me an even better shave ( smoother, closer...whatever better means) after getting my straights ( a few) some honed and some I decided to hone myself I still haven't been able to get a shave comparable in comfort to that of feather or shavette. Is it a relatively common experience? Are my razors just not sharp enough? I can shave but to get a close shave my face hurts with the straight significantly more than disposable. will I ever be able to get a shave from my straight parallel to that of the shavette or the feather?

I'm in the exact same boat as you are, so it would be great to read the comments that come up on this thread.

yeah... so it seemed strange to spend so much money : razor, strop, hone and spend so much time honing stroping just to get a shave inferior to what you would get from a $30 shavette. So what is the secret?

The secret is that when you use a feather or disposable type you are getting a manufactured blade which should be at its best possible state. With a straight YOU have to do that. A straight shave should never hurt. if it does there is an unresolved issue with stropping, honing or your shaving technique. Thats why guys use these things. Its easy. No muss no fuss.

Even if your straight is at its best though I'm not sure I would be willing to say you will ever get a better shave than with a disposable.This issue has been debated here many times and each devotee has their opinions. With either instrument you should be able to get a super shave when properly used.

although my razor hasn't been honed by Lynn, I paid to get it honed and when it arrived it failed HHT...is it normal?

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Originally Posted by logorus

although my razor hasn't been honed by Lynn, I paid to get it honed and when it arrived it failed HHT...is it normal?

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HHT is both a blessing and a curse to straight razor shaving. Blessing because it can often be used as a sharpness test, a curse because too much emphasis is placed on the HHT. I use it all the time, but it's dependent on too many variables but be a litmus test which can be applied to all razors, hair type, sharpness, etc.

I've never used a Feather blade, but I've certainly bought my share of various DE blades through the years. MParker, a longtime member recently said using his own hair, Feather blades DO NOT pass the HHT. After I heard that, I threw the HHT relating to ultimate sharpness out the window.

Stropping can make or break you when you start more than anything can. Someone really needs to make a DETAILED instructional video on nothing other than stropping. Keep asking questions, keep reading the forum and keep practicing a light touch, skin stretching and keep at it.

Chris L

Yes it's normal. A Feather can fail an HHT if you aren't doing it properly. Similarly, you don't automatically (or even necessarily quickly) develop shaving technique.

In 7 out of 10 hypothetical post-apocalyptic scenarios, shaving will be a luxury afforded only those who have tools that survived, and disposable blades will not be available.

It seems a little illogical to expect that just because a traditional straight costs more money than a cheap shavette that it must result in better shaves. Price and performance are not always directly related.

I spent 100usd on a Feather and 20usd on a Sanguine disposable. The Sanguine can give me as good a shave as the Feather can, but I prefer the Feather because it is better made and has more class. Some people, particularly traditionalists, find that classic razors have more elegance and character than any disposable, including the Feathers. The sad part is that because we spend money, we want to justify spending money. They all have blades sharp enough to cut hair. You can somewhat control the edge of the traditional straight, whereas you get what you get with disposable blades. Other than that, there's little reason to assume a straight would somehow get magically better results than a Feather or a shavette.

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although my razor hasn't been honed by Lynn, I paid to get it honed and when it arrived it failed HHT...is it normal?

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That would depend on who's hair we're talking about... The hanging hair test is only useful to the honer who *might* use it as an indication of where he's at with the edge. The problem with this test is that it all depends on the hair being used and ultimately does not tell you if the razor is sharp or not. The shave test is the only test that matters. Razors coming off hones such as the yellow coticule many times won't pass an HHT but shave wonderfully. On the other hand, many razors that pass the HHT with flying colors won't shave worth sh*t because they are overhoned with a wire edge. The wire edge would clip that single hair without issues but the minute it hits your beard, the edge folds over and well.... crappy shave! I got my Joe Chandler custom razor last week.... Customs officials had opened the box and wrapping..... I have no idea if they played with it but I wouldn't be surprised if a bored agent didn't play around cutting paper with it for a while to see how sharp it was. End result was that the razor did NOT meet *MY* calibrated HHT out of the package. So, I headed for my strops and gave it a good stropping on my Illinois 827 and finished on my TM Latigo... it now passed my HHT but not as well as some razors. On the other hand, I've had some of the best shaves ever from this very razor with no further attention to the edge, other than daily stropping.

Moral of the story is that the shave test is king, the other tests are only useful to you once you've learned to use them while honing your blades. They are not useful in evaluating someone elses honing job as you don't know what hones and methods the honer used. Some gents on this board have shaved comfortably for years and rarely ever seem to get one of their razors to pass the so called hanging hair test, others find they can do so at will so in the end they all get great shaves.

As for the traditional vs disposable blade straight issue.... a traditional straight can be honed to something equivalent to a Feather AC sharpness level by a dedicated honemeister but isn't normally done as most gents aren't willing to go to that length and it quite frankly isn't necessary. Most find such razors too sharp to deal with on a daily basis. I came from the Feather AC and the tugging was uncomfortable for the first bit... this tugging was a result of a less than perfect edge but once I shaved with a properly honed straight, the minor tugging I felt was neither uncomfortable nor bothersome to me. It takes a while to get used to the sensation of a trad straight and some like myself find that we prefer to touch up our blades more frequent than others. I generally have to resort to a pasted bench strop maybe once a week or so if I'm using the same razor each day... Others can seemingly go on for weeks and weeks with nothing but a hanging strop and maybe a linen strop. I can't but I also rarely visit my hones, just the CrO2 pasted strop, once every weeks worth of shaves seems to keep my edges where I like them.

Regards

Kaptain "Make mine sharp.... but not TOO sharp!" Zero

I use both a dovo straight razor as well as a feather. I have spent years refining my honing and stropping trying different methods and products as well as different beard preparation and shaving technique. I am not an expert , however due to the fact that I am a mechanical engineer ( specializing in metals) and I have an extremely tough beard I can share what I have learned. Basically it is very difficult to get a straight razor as sharp as a feather for several reasons, but the biggest difference is honing and stropping technique. I have done comparative sharpness tests and found that even if a similar level of sharpness is achieved it turns out to be too sharp and quite a rough shave. Just stick to the basics, use quality products 4000/8000 grit hone (being careful to maintain proper balance of the edge ( Not honing more on one side than the other)) , fine grit stropping paste being sure to not overdue it ( less is more) . For extra polish and sharpness a couple dozen passes on newspaper followed by your leather and you should be as good as you ever need to be. If you want a nerdy Engineers way of comparing the sharpness just buy a package of feather blades and alternate doing hanging hair tests between the feather blade and your straight razor. (did it) Don`t shoot to get it equally sharp. The feather is just a baseline for how sharp a blade could be. Try hanging hair tests on both blades ( with varying lengths of hair) and find the sharpness level which suits your beard and face. Once your blade will cut a hair with equal ease across the entire length of the blade, and it shaves your face comfortably you will then have your routine maintanance figured out.

My basic routine is 3 strokes at #4000 5 strokes #8000 , 3 strokes dovo strop paste (aprox #10,000) , 3 strokes 1 micron diamond paste (#16,000) 20 strokes on newspaper , finally 30 strokes on leather.



That is what I do to achieve near feather sharpness. But it may or may not be right for you.

That all being said , that is only in comparison with a feather, truth be told the preparation you put into your beard makes a bigger difference.

Does that answer any questions?

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Originally Posted by logorus

although my razor hasn't been honed by Lynn, I paid to get it honed and when it arrived it failed HHT...is it normal?

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I've never had a razor pass the HHT, well not with my hair anyway. I sent an ebite special out to be restored and honed, and when I got it back it wouldn't even cut the hair on my arm, I still decided to strop it and try it out. The best shave I have had from a razor honed on a coticule. Moral of the story? The best way to know if your razor is shave ready, is to shave with it, forget the HHT and TPT and all the othertests unless you are learning to hone yourself. Also keep in mind that its shave ready to the honers standards, which may not be shave ready to your standards, meaning your beard might be coarser than theirs etc. ;)

EDIT: I started with a feather and experienced some difficulties when switching to real straights. IMO a feather is more for when your in a hurry, almost equivalent to picking up a mock3 only you get a much cleaner smoother shave. I now prefer real straights but occasionally still reach for the feather, even though I retired it a month or so ago.

Thank you all for answering. I guess I suspected everything you guys mentioned in your responses but I just wanted to hear it from people who have been dointhis for a while. I was so concentrated on HHT that I wouldn't eve attempt to shave with a razor untill it passed HHT and that is probably why my shaves are not comfortable. what I experience is my first few strokes are great but deteriorate rapidly as I shave. By the time I get to the chin it is pretty rough and so I go to feather cause I can shave with it applying very little pressure.
To unswer the question about prevously honed razor. It didn't pass hht, nor did it shave well.
again thatk you for your responses.

So if your razor starts out shaving good and quickly deteriorates what its saying to you is it is not sharp enough and runs out of steam midway through the shave. Also the chin is one of the more demanding areas for the razor so it may not be sharp enough to shave that area from the get-go. Have you tried starting with the chin area first? When I hone up my razors I just do my chin and I can tell immediately if I need to go back to the hone.

going to try just that , thanks

Is a disposable razor suitable for practicing stropping?

a straight with disp blades that is

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Originally Posted by Chris L

I've never used a Feather blade, but I've certainly bought my share of various DE blades through the years. MParker, a longtime member recently said using his own hair, Feather blades DO NOT pass the HHT. After I heard that, I threw the HHT relating to ultimate sharpness out the window.

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Fresh feather super pro blades generally fail the HHT for me, but after a few days of use they start passing pretty well even though they're noticeably duller. Which I think was part of my original point - the HHT isn't a pass/fail test of shave-readiness, though it is frequently treated as one by newbies because it's the easiest test to perform. Where it is useful is during honing where you can use it to track the progress the blade is making. But even there it's not unusual for my blades to start failing the HHT once I get up to the 16k or 30k Shapton. But even then the various ways they fail the HHT still tells me a lot about what the edge is doing.

Isn't there something to be said for the satisifaction and therapeutic value of maintaining and shaving with a finely crafted work of art? The accessories and the ritual?

You don't have to be an engineer to realize that disposable blades are sharper than any str8.
With the disposables, you get a consistent shave as long as the blade is withing it's life expectancy.
Straights, there're no two alike, different steels, grinds, honing/stropping, etc. Some of them are warped, reground, who knows what else.
You may get a good shave on Monday and a crappy shave on Tuesday.
If you don't enjoy straights from the hobby point of view, then you're better off going a different route.

I have used both of the throwaway blade straights you asked about. Neither of them worked for me.
I didn't like the feel of the blade or the balance of the shaving instrument. Everything about that type of razor struck me as a compromise. But if they work for you, be happy and enjoy.

The reason I use a full straight razor is because it gives me the best most consistent shave that I have found after many years of shaving.

Every time I test a new razor or new strop or hone, it usually leaves me with a slightly raw face.

The skill in using a razor is to fully understand it. How does it shave and what are its abilities and limits.

When you find the perfect combination for you, the shave is unbeatable. Day in day out, a smooth comfortable shave. You feel clean and your skin is as healthy as you could ever hope for.

What is true about straight razors is that the learning curve to achieve perfection is quite long and many on this forum are always striving for that miniscule improvement.

But for me at least there is never going to be a mass market product that will even approximate the shaving comfort and effectiveness that I can obtain from a straight razor that I have selected and sharpened to my own personal standards.

I generally use a straight .But I do use a Focus blade razor when the mood takes me & If i am staying overnight somwhere the focus gives very good shaves when I use wilkinson sword blades in it & its the same razor that quite a few Barbers will use on you if you opt for a straight shave. It was useful to me to help me learn to use a light touch ,so less irritation after the shave. I did post a review on this as I feel it a very handy piece of Kit.Paul

Not one to shy away from stuff that works,
I'll give it ago. I hate carrying stuff on trips and holidays etc.
Thanks for the tip.

I started str8 razor shaving with a Feather. I believe it gave me a head start in regard to learning to have good shaving techniques. - The Feather is extremely sharp and is like shaving with a surgical instrument. Yes, they are dangerously sharp, and you have to learn shaving skills or the Feather will win the war. Shaving with a Feather and using a very light, light touch you can get a good shave with them. There's a BUT to this:

There is nothing like a shave with a real straight razor. The edge is more forgiving, and when done correctly, the shave is like heaven. There is nothing like it! Your skin is smooth, none irritated; there is nothing like it. Of course, though......you have to learn to strop and take care of this razor. I guess you could get away without learning to hone it yourself, but that's part of the rush you get, because you did it yourself. The reward of shaving with the real straight over a Feather is ten fold. There is no comparison in regard to the super quality of your shaves.

Yes, its' more work and you need to become skilled in your techniques: Shaving, Stropping, Honing (if you choose), etc., etc...

* That's what we're all doing here

Steve

I use both a Sanguine shavette with disposable Wilkinsons and a Dovo straight. They're very different in feel and the Dovo is definitely more "stable". The shavette is more difficult to control (= you can cut yourself easily) and may get clogged with hair which is quite annoying, plus it doesn't deliver the close shave of a straight, even though disposable blades are sharper than a straight's edge (something I can't explain to myself).

You can strop the straight on paper (I use red-pasted notebook paper for stropping, plus black paste on a leather strop and it works just fine), you don't need a strop for it. Just bring your strop paste and brush/soap.