Is my razor sharp enough or is it me?

Good evening gents,

I just purchased a pre honed Dovo and I am having some problems. I took it for the maiden voyage tonight and it felt like it was doing more scraping then it was cutting. I stropped it like I learned in both Lynn's video, and from other sources on line but I am at a loss.

I have been using a Feather DX non folding for the past 2 months and that thing cuts like butter for a good 7 shaves on my beard. Prior to the Feather I used a DE loaded with a Feather for over a year. Suffice to say, I believe by now that my prep is good as I long gotten over the learning curve of bad prep and irritated skin. Also being that I have extremely sensitive skin, and I get BBS with no irritation from the Feather I would think that I have the correct blade angle down.

I have read that a real straight usually isn't as sharp as a Feather straight, but it cant be that far off can it?

Does any body think I could have worn the edge by improper stropping? (15 on canvas, 20 on leather on a brand new TM no pressure except the weight of the blade)

I am thoroughly confused and my face is on fire not to mention that I am bummed because this was my birthday present from the wife. Unfortunately, the Norton, DMT, and Shapton 16k are still on their way in the mail. Cheers

I've never shaved with a feather, but I can tell you that a properly honed and stropped straight razor will NOT be uncomfortable in the least. On the contrary, it's been the most comfortable and gentle shave I've ever gotten. And I have very sensitive skin as well.

Are you sure the razor was pre-honed? I think stropping technique is really something you have to experiment with and develop on your own, because I know I strop my razors differently than how some have told me to do on here (in order for me to get the best shave out of any particular razor I'm using).

I also have one of TM's strops. When I use it, I don't normally do as many passes on the linen -- especially on a newly-honed razor. You might try to clean up the edge by doing a few passes on the linen/canvas again, then start stropping on the leather a few laps at a time. Keep testing it on your arm hair and go back to the strop again. When the hair pops, you will likely get a good shave out of it.

Also, I think a pasted strop was probably one of my best purchases as a newbie. It's far easier than learning the stones, though the stones are important as well.

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Originally Posted by G Q

Good evening gents,

I just purchased a pre honed Dovo and I am having some problems. I took it for the maiden voyage tonight and it felt like it was doing more scraping then it was cutting. I stropped it like I learned in both Lynn's video, and from other sources on line but I am at a loss.

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I've had the same experience just recently. I bought a pre honed Dovo but was surprised by the sharpness, or, the lack of sharpness. It's my first straight and I still have some learning to do but anyway. First I thought that it was lack of experience but more and more I realized it wasn't sharp enough. Now I have honed it myself and the blade is sharper than when I got it. I'm still not fully satisfied and sometimes it still feels like scraping more than cutting. My honing tecnique will improve as well as my shaving tecnique and stropping tecnique, so I'm not worried at all. My present shaves are decent and my best shaves are still to come.

It would seem that some razors offered as "shave ready" really are not. That was the case with my first razor purchase.

I don't know if it's that fact that these places that offer "shave ready" have to do so many razors that they don't spend the time to get it done right, or that they perhaps think that a newbie won't know the difference anyhow, so they don't bother putting a really nice smooth edge on there.

When I recieved my first razor it would begrudgingly pop a hair off the back of my hand, and I mean POP. It would slide along the edge, then catch, and then pop it off. I took a look at the edge under a microscope, and the edge was none too smooth. From my estimation it was no better finished than with a 8000 grit stone.

I immediately honed it myself and the results were markedly improved.

Sounds like your razor just needs to be honed by someone who cares.

I too shave with a Feather AC and have experienced similar problems. What I found is that my razors were simply not sharp enough or well enough polished. Even when a razor has been prehoned, the edge is sometimes lacks a bit of polish. At a minimum, I would recommend using some cromium oxide on the razor to smooth out the edge.
Another tip that has helped my razors is to use about a hundred passes on the leather strop the first time. Before subsequent shaves, I typically use about 60 passes.

I started out shaving with a straight about 3 months ago, the first two months I obtained various razors with some being honed by various reputable honemeisters and although the shaves were good, they never cut through my stubble very smoothly, I always thought this had more to do with me needing to learning a better technique and more practice.

Then I got hold of one of the Feather DXs and I had the best shave ever, it really did cut through my stubble like butter with absolutely no pressure. None of my other straights come anywhere close, even the professionally honed ones. The wedges I find slightly better, full hollows seem to not cut very smoothly at all.

I guess I'm going to spend my 2 cents on this thread today....
I firmly believe there is a slight difference between Pre-Honed and Shave Ready.....IMHO
"Pre-Honed" means the blade has been sharpened on various stones to a nice sharp edge, they will shave, but it is up to you and your stropping ability to take that edge to a keen shaving edge...
"Shave Ready" means just that, the blade has been honed and polished to a shaving keen edge and stropped, so that you should get an idea of what shaving sharp really is...
The "Honemiester" (god I hate that word) should tell you what you should expect and what if, anything you should do before yer first shave....
Keep in mind that the guy honing the blade only has one beard to test his edges on, so the edge he sends you will be set up for his face and beard, he can't possibly tweak it to yours....
We try and send out the best edges to the best of our ability, and I know I try and learn off of any criticism of my edges that I might get, anybody can make a mistake, and send a not quite shave ready edge, for your beard, after all we are only human.... As soon as sombody invents a honing and stropping machine life will be all better :D
So that was my 2 cents...

I guess I'm just echoing what's been said, but I went from a Dovo shavette with DE blades to a Dovo Special (+ honed option) and was discouraged at first by the 'dullness'. I even wondered if someone forgot to do the honing. I soon got used to it, though, and also touched it up myself on a 8k Henckels stone and chrom-ox powder on paper. Now I get comfortable, close shaves and never cut myself the way I did with that supersharp shavette.

Glen, that honing machine should be adjustable... from fine to course, once you pull out the whisker calipers and determine the type of beard.Hmmm.:hmmm: The whiskometer?

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I guess I'm going to spend my 2 cents on this thread today....
I firmly believe there is a slight difference between Pre-Honed and Shave Ready.....IMHO
"Pre-Honed" means the blade has been sharpened on various stones to a nice sharp edge, they will shave, but it is up to you and your stropping ability to take that edge to a keen shaving edge...
"Shave Ready" means just that, the blade has been honed and polished to a shaving keen edge and stropped, so that you should get an idea of what shaving sharp really is...
The "Honemiester" (god I hate that word) should tell you what you should expect and what if, anything you should do before yer first shave....
Keep in mind that the guy honing the blade only has one beard to test his edges on, so the edge he sends you will be set up for his face and beard, he can't possibly tweak it to yours....
We try and send out the best edges to the best of our ability, and I know I try and learn off of any criticism of my edges that I might get, anybody can make a mistake, and send a not quite shave ready edge, for your beard, after all we are only human.... As soon as sombody invents a honing and stropping machine life will be all better :D
So that was my 2 cents...

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Nicely said Glen!
I don't normally hone for others because I am so darn slow. It is all I can do to keep up with my herd. In addition, I continue to refine the edges on my razors as I learn.
However, I have had exactly the same experience with prehoned vice "shave ready" razors.
On the more rare occasion, I have had the prehoned razor that does not have a good bevel established. One razor that I received recently, I ended up taking down to a DMT8C because the bevel was really poorly set. There was effectively no bevel on one side of the blade at the heel.
The heavyduty series on honing is very good if you are looking for a tutorial.

i agree chromium oxide makes a big differance to my razors. all i do is shave and if i think it could shave better i just take my razors to a 4k/8k 12k and then oxide and try again and if still not happy just keep repeating untill i feel a differance you just have to be patient.We all have differant strenghts in stubble you have to tune your razor to your beard. Switching from feathers to a straight will sound differant which can be quite decieving as a straight can sound like it scraping when in actualfact it is actualy shaving it takes a thew shaves to adapt.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

Glen, that honing machine should be adjustable... from fine to course, once you pull out the whisker calipers and determine the type of beard.Hmmm.:hmmm: The whiskometer?

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Ha!!!!!! Ok could you please send a whisker sample along with the razor you want honed :roflmao:roflmao:roflmao I'll run the through the whiskerometer and get that ready for ya!!!!!....

I'll take one when you get it up and running Glen!

James.

Actually Glen I have a stropping machine! Seriously. You insert the razor and then pull the handles and it will strop each side for you. It takes 4 times longer to do but it works. If you really want I will take a picture of it for you. In any case I sometimes get messages after sending out a razor that I know was super comfortable on my face asking if it could be not sharp enough. I know I take my blades down to at least chromium oxide and often .25 diamond and they feel a bit like a feather blade as a result. But often when I inquire as to what they are doing I find stropping problems. And the razor is dull as a butter knife when I get it back.

Even though alot of this has been covered I will post it all in one spot anyways cause I have time to kill.

So before even looking at that. Where did you get it "pre-honed?" It is possible that something slipped through the cracks but there are people who I would be more likely to accept a hone from than others.

Next definatly up your stropping. There was a study somewhere on there that said that for the longevity of the hone its best to strop around 50 or 60 laps... as in there and back. I usually do 70 or so for a first stropping. So you might want to VERY SLOWLY and CAREFULLY strop it 25 or 30 on the linnen just to try to give it some extra sharp and then do 60 or 70 on the leather.

Also with a feather I find the key is a light touch. With a straight a light touch is important but I think angle and technique become more important. You probably already have alot of technique but it is a different animal.

A bit of paste can help if it only needs refinement or to be kept up later but if you find it is not sharp then by all means save yourself the pain and sent it to someone like GSSXGUN up there who can get it really sharp. That way you will definately know.

What he said...
And don't forget to send the whisker sample... :D


My question: was the razor pulling hair?
A straight will pull a little compared to a feather, but it should not be an uncomfortable pulling.
I'm afraid there is a little adjusting required when switching from a feather to a traditional straight, but once you get past the curve, you will rarely use your feather. Stropping, skin stretching, and blade angle are where you need to concentrate (assuming your razor really is shave ready).
If the Topher's stropping suggestion helps, but it still isn't enough, you can strop on newspaper. The carbon in the print is mildly abrasive, and should help to get your edge closer to what you are used to.

Also look at your angles carefully. start with the blade almost flat against your face, making sure to apply no pressure, and play with the blade angle. I find myself getting the best shaves at a very shallow angle.

Good evening gents,

Thank you to all for the assistance. To answer a couple questions, I know for certain the razor was honed by a reputable source which is why I question myself and my technique first.

Second, the razor did feel like it was pulling hair to the point where in spots it did hurt, but it did cut slightly. I wanted so bad to grab my Feather, but I wanted to see what would happen if I carried out the shave. I played with the angles a starting flat and working out, but not much difference. I did 3 passes on my face like usual, but reduction was very slow and there was no way I was getting anywhere close to doing an ATG pass.

I will definitely try more stropping and see what happens. Can anyone suggest more links on stropping technique so I can insure that I am on the right path?

Thank you all for your time and insight. Cheers

OK so if it was reputable then i would be looking at 3 possibilities. 1. You have not stropped enough. Stropping is easy. Basicaly pull the strop tight but not to the point that its like a bow string. It needs to be flat but not distorting. You can mess up a razor if the strop cups. Then you run the blade down the length of the strop spine first with the toe of the razor slightly off the strop and make an X shape with the strokes. When you reach the end roll the razor between your fingers like a pencil while keeping the spine in contact with the strop. As its flipping begin your return stroke so that it is moving when you put it down it is already on the way back. That way you won't cut the strop. Also you will have a finger holding the blade down to the strop. It is OK to place a slight amount of pressure here to hold it down. It does not need to be literally 0 Pressure but less pressure is better. Do it very slowly and you might want to use a butter knife to practice so you don't damage either the strop or the razor. The strop can be allowed to deflect very slightly... say a 1/2" which is not much but holding it more taught can cause cupping and less can dull and edge or becomes a more advanced technique. As you get better go faster but for now it will seem odd and uncomfortable so go slow.

2 You are used to a feather which is super sharp and therefore the duller but potentially gentler straight razor feels harsh. This might be the case combined with not enough stropping but it shouldn't feel that bad in comparison. To me a coticule edge feels harsh and uncomfortable so it is posible.

3 a bad hone slipped through which can and does happen. Contact the honer and he should make it right.

I noticed the same thing between my feather and my dovo but I have never sent mine out. Yet. As a matter of fact it is going in the mail tomorrow.I am going to have to put my hones to the side for now and let a master do it.

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Originally Posted by Calle-81

I'm still not fully satisfied and sometimes it still feels like scraping more than cutting.

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One thing to keep in mind, a good stroke consists of lateral motion as well as the downward motion. By adding the lateral motion you're using the microscopic teeth on your razor and actually cutting through the hair rather than pressing the hair down against the skin until either A) you force it to cut through and potentially cause irritation or B) the edge just slides over the hair.

It's tricky and takes practice, but if mastered you may be surprised at how close a WTG pass can get.

By using the teeth and cutting through you're beard, you'll also get more longevity from your edge!

Hopefully this helps, and if not atleast it's something to consider!

Good Luck