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Hello all,
I'm totally new to all this... I've placed my order (except for a blade) and am waiting for everything to arrive. I just have one question. How do you know when it is time to hone/send it out to a professional vs just re-stropping it? I've seen somewhere where it said you can go anywhere from 2 months to 12 months before another honing will be needed. That's a big gap for guessing!
Thanks,
Andrew
The simple answer is that, after you learn how to give yourself a good shave, you will notice the quality of your shaves starting to degrade and will bring the edge back with stropping. When stropping stops working, you will hone it or send it out for honing. There are several steps involved in giving yourself a good shave that take some time to master. It requires some patience as you gain confidence with each step, one at a time.
Be sure to strop before each and every shave for 30-60 roundtrip laps. Your face will thank you for it!:)
It sure is a big gap! Some people only shave once a week, have thin or sparse hair, and have great shaving and strapping technique. Others shave daily, have thick and course hair, terrible shaving and strapping technique. Their blades don't generally last as long before needing rehoning. Razors are made of different steels too!Quote:
Originally Posted by admeasel
Like Chimensch said, you'll know its time when strapping is no longer enough
I might not be in the right place here, but I am interested in opinions on 1. Flexible strops v paddle strop, 2. Leading with the spine on the last 10 strokes on your finishing hone. I have been informed by a bloke professionally sharpens industrial blades, and is a genuine authority on sharpening steel. He tends to use the 'japanese method' ie, pusing back and forth on the same side, alternating the two. His final 10 strokes on a blade are 10 spine leading strokes. He gave a me a technical interpretation as to why, I don't get all of it. Flexible strops, in his opinion is that they 'dub' the blades, ie rounds the blades edge. He added that this dub can work as the absolute finest edge from various pastes etc, to 'smooth out' and 'refine' and edge to it's maximum, tend to last one shave, they by their delcateness, do not hold an edge, whereas the slightly heavier edge, which tends to shave OK will stay at an acceptable level for 8 weeks. So a magnificent super fine microscopic edge, is not generally what shavers need. Sure it's nice to look great magnified, split hairs etc TPT TNT et al, don't mean a thing. How it shaves is the issue. sure you will have a fine shave off a super fine, diamond pasted, felt strop or crox, but by making it super sharp you are shortening the effective life of that particular hone period. So, the finer the edge the less it lasts. This guy sharpens and sells his services in a retail setup. He doesn't do cut throats, but has reviewed what I asked him, right up to enormous magnification, only useful for determining how long the edge will last,,,,true story. Tell me I'm wrong....we can get better use from a 'robust' true edge than a wafer thin super sharp edge., so relax and put the 30 k stone in the bottom drawer, as I'm convinced that 3 months of acceptable shaving beats two weeks of super shaving if that exists.
Once you can shave well(and I add that because at the start you wont and your technique will be at fault if you started with a shave ready razor) when you strop at every shave the edge will be maintained but after a while it will start to tug or/and pull a bit no matter the stropping and that is when a touch up is required. The quicker you are to do this the less work it will take.
Sharpening straights is very different than just about any other instrument sharpening maybe with the exception of surgical scalpels and most of those are disposable these days anyway. Most knife experts have big problems with straights until they understand them. The fact your expert doesn't sharpen straights tells me all I need to know.
Straights should be as sharp as possible. if you're worried about how long they last and don't want them sharp shave with a butter knife it will last forever. Honing is part of the game and degrading an edge to lengthen the time required between honing is unwise and foolish. Besides, I doubt you are actually prolonging the time. To do that you would have to alter the edge geometry which would compromise the shaving ability.
Heh, there's no need to re-fight old battles. This sort of thing comes up often, especially from knife, plane iron, and chisel people. Bottom line is that a razor sharp knife isn't and a razor needs to be both sharp and smooth. Tool and razor care methods have been refined over several thousand years and they are simply different animals.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski
If you are willing to put up with "OK" shaves for eight weeks, go for it. OTOH, if you want the most comfortable shave that you can get with your skill set and equipment, try a light maintenance honing every five or six shaves. There is no requirement that you do things "his way" or my way.. find what works for you.
rs,
Tack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tack
Agreed. I have been keeping my razors in as tip top shape as my equipment will allow. I've been referring to it as a triple 5 regimen:
5 shaves on a particular razor gets
5 strokes on my barber's hone followed by
5 laps on a CrOx pasted strop to smooth out the edge
I then strop and shave as normal. This has been working for me since somewhere in this past June, I believe. I had two razors professionally honed by Glen to have a benchmark, and while I have my Norton set up to 8k and the barber's hone, I'm coming relatively close to his fine workmanship (though his equipment, skill and experience are far superior to mine).
I may not be a master of the stones, but I've been able to keep any razor I own (except those not yet initially honed to shave ready) giving me smooth and comfortable shaves.
My point here is that with minimal equipment and skill, you can maintain a properly honed straight razor for a long, long time.
Such a controversial field. My 'information' comes from a professional metalurgist who directs methods of metal plasticity, to get bevel meeting consistently, every time, no mucking around, he develops a method and his company provides consistent saleable products, Specified. No snake oil, and other imaginary fonts of info. hand made products, using natural stones, make things variable, but in the business world replication is required. Dovo are the perfect example, when they arrive the are the same, close, but need 15 mins attention, no more. All I'm saying, is like Dovo, there is no magical solution. 8 strokes on a 12 k naniwa, and have a shave.....No more, or use a dozen stones to dull everything and start again to reach the same result. Super sharp is great no doubt, but a comfortable smooth shave neeed not be micrsopically perfect, it needs some useability, repeatable useability, not back on the 16k every four shaves. Do it by all means, but I don't need it. cheers
What you say is right, I think all of us have fiddled with our hones and gave razors a rub on a stone after 10 days, sometimes sooner. Wy do we do it? The unknown. It's also fun, and lets have a pentrating glimpse of the obvious and admit we have an obsessive hobby. It' good fun. I know I'll never get a superstone + naturals wonder blade.....but we try. Go hard boys
I find restropping after every shave works well. Further, I find that a quick session on a pasted strop with chromium oxide allows far longer between hones.
Eventually, the 'v' shape, the bevel, is going to need to be repaired and the strop won't do it. Providing there isn't any damage, I've found that an 8k synthetic hone suffices to repair the bevel and doesn't take overly much work to achieve. With this said, I imagine that due to damage to the razor either obvious or minute, a touch up hone will no longer suffice and its probably worth investing in somebody who has a selection of gradient hones who will be able to help out.
Between an 8k synthetic stone and a pasted strop, I've kept my razor shave-ready but likely there will come a time when that wont suffice.
The great thing about this sport is that it's so customizable to the individual. From soaps to blade geometry to strops to brushes to aftershave to prep.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski
If you've found something that works for you specifically that meets all your needs, then by all means keep using it.
But I'll throw out one thought: I think you're short changing yourself in the comfort department, especially over something so trivial as 5 or so strokes on a hone every so often.
But, again, it's what works for you...
Good luck!
Please take no offense but if this is your first instinct then you're right you should start a new thread so as not to hijack the OP's question.:beer1:Quote:
Originally Posted by bobski
Andrew, Keep in mind stropping and honing are 2 different things. Stropping (non pasted) should be done before each shave as a normal prep to shaving. Honing is only done once the edge dulls to the point where you experience excessive pulling or poor shave results (assuming you have good technique) and pasted stropping does not improve it. This is when you will know it's time to hone. As for the length of time between honing well that depends on many things but frequency of use is the main determining factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by admeasel