Pasted strop: too rough?

.5 micron chromium oxide came prepasted on the back of my leather strop. I only strop on it occasionally, for about 20 round trips, to freshen the edge of my razor. The past couple of times I've done it, my razor has seemed rougher when I shave and has ripped up my face pretty good. After str8 shaving for nearly 3 months, I feel pretty confident that it's not my stropping technique that's too blame. I strop with a very light touch and am careful to not roll the edge. Also, I don't think it's my shaving technique, as I've been getting very comfortable, close shaves lately.

Anyway, I'm wondering whether the surface that the paste is on is too rough and uneven and is actually dulling the blade. Check out the photos here and let me know what you think. As you can see, quite a few nubs have been raised on it. It still feels fairly soft and suede-like, but is uneven.

Also, from some threads I've seen here by JoshEarl, it seems that there may be too much paste on the strop.

Any input you have would be greatly appreciated. :tu

Going soley on what I have read on the forums because I don't use a pasted strop. That is looking like far too much paste, enough for a few dozen strops. The back of that strop also looks far too rough to use. Personally I think you be doing more harm than good to your razor using that.

Just my 0.02, we'll have to wait see what the experienced, paste users think.

I think you're shave experience supports your suspicions. Have a look at your edge under a microscope to confirm.
I would make a pasted paddle or hanger & use the smooth side of the hide. No offence but that strop looks like 9 miles of bad road.

To me your strop looks way too rough. The CrO2 looks heavy too. And what I find with the nap that heavy it tends to dull the edge. There is a possibility you can fix your strop by using a pumice stone to remove the heavy nap creating and leaving a finer nap. It will be a little messy because its pasted, but should work. A note when you do it don't press hard. Work the stone across the strop lightly till the nap becomes finer, also be sure not to work a spot to long you will leave the strops thickness uneven.

Good luck

If I am not totally wrong, that is a Kenrup strop isn't it?
The strop looks just like mine, and I have the same green stuff on the backside of mine :D

Unlike you, I have good experiences using the backside every couple of shaves. As soon as I feel the blade not being as sharp as it previously was ,I do a couple of laps (around 5) on the backside before my next shave. Every time I have done it the razor has been better the next time.

By the way, you do strop on the leather side (after you have cleaned your razor) before you shave after having used the pasted side?

Arlendius

I had a similar problem, and on the great advice of another forum member, skipped the paste altogether to see if it made a difference. Now after honing on the 8K Norton, I just strop and shave. I think that the rough side of the strop plus the paste, and my inexperience was causing the dulling of the edge. I'll probably give pasted strops another go, but at the moment im quite happy.
Stu

i use chr02 but i think your problem is strop.use paddle strop +better leather side not the back side.on my paddle it has alot more chro2 then yours but blade just slides very smooth on the surface

People ask me all the time about pasting the back of my Apprentice strops. My answer is yes and no. Yes it can be done but the texture of the back of a piece of leather can vary widely. I'm sure Ken concentrates on giving you the best front side he can just as I do and the back is secondary. Sometimes it can be used, sometines it is just too rough. I'd worry more about the long, soft fibers rounding an edge more than creating a ragged edge.

If I had to offer a basic strop that must be good on both sides it would need to cost a good deal more as I would either need to discard many to find one good on both sides or would need to sand and buff the back adding time and labor.

I'm still not a fan of pasting the back of a flexible strop anyway for beginners. Most have problems keeping a razor flat to the strop and with tension and a soft. flexible pasted surface is more likely to round an edge than a more rigid paddle.

The same goes for what leather is on a paddle. The harder the surface of the leather the less likely you will have rounding. A smooth, reasonably firm surface and light pressure should be fine. heavy pressure, soft temper leather, sueded or rough side leathers are all more likely to create rounding as well.


Tony

Thanks, guys, for all the input. I think I'll skip stropping on the paste until I can get a smoother strop to paste up.

Arlendius: yes and yes. I strop on the bare leather side before every shave, 60 laps, and in between passes, 20 laps. The bare leather side seems to work great; it's very smooth, but with a bit of draw. I have only done the pasted side after every five shaves or so.

Do you all think my razor will need to be honed due to the damage done by the paste, or will a bunch of laps on the bare leather fix it up? The razor still seems pretty sharp, easily cutting hairs on the HHT; however, at the same time, it feels ragged on my face. I didn't know a razor could be sharp and ragged at the same time.:shrug:

Let me know what you think.

Payne

To be honest, I think 20 strokes on pasted .5 CrO might be TOO many strokes - in other words, you're creating a wire edge that you are then removing with your face. That's just my opinion, and I could of course be wrong.

Why not try only five or so strokes?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ByronTodd

To be honest, I think 20 strokes on pasted .5 CrO might be TOO many strokes - in other words, you're creating a wire edge that you are then removing with your face. That's just my opinion, and I could of course be wrong.

Why not try only five or so strokes?

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I think exactly the same.. or strop your blade until you reach the HHT test (or better shave some hair on your arm or leg.. you are seaching for the smoother sensation at the contact with your skin..)

Your razor was shaving just fine and now it is raggedy on your face? That sounds like a wire edge. It has to be removed.

I agree with the others that the strop looks like it has to much paste on it but if it has been working then....?:shrug: I would be concerned that you are using the chrome ox every 5 shaves or so. That sounds like a bit to frequent but you may have a heavy beard.

Tell us about your razor. A Double Arrow?

Randy:

Yes---a double arrow. However, not too long ago I got an old Solingen razor off Ebay for the purpose of practicing honing on my Norton 4K/8K. However, much to my surprise, the old blade seemed sharp, passed the HHT test, and indeed, after much stropping on the bare leather, actually seemed to shave better than my expertly honed DA---quite a shock.

Any way, I have been getting better and better shaves from both razors lately, presumably because my shaving technique has improved substantially. Then, I thought I noticed the DA not shaving quite as closely, so I took it to the chromium oxide. I think I might have actually done like 30 laps. :o I know, I know---that was probably too much. It was sharp, alright, but when I shaved with it, it really nicked up my face something fierce. So, I switched to my Solingen for a while. When I thought I noticed it not shaving as closely, I took it to the chromium oxide, this time about 20 laps. Same thing---the razor seemed pretty darn sharp, but again nicked up my face.

At this point, I'm guessing:

1. too much chromium oxide on the strop to begin with
2. the backside of the strop is too rough in texture
3. I have been stropping for too many strokes on the paste
4. some combination of all of the above

Even if some of the other factors are to blame, is it worth just not bothering to strop on this particular strop again, because of the roughness (and excess paste)?

Oh---and if it is a wire edge, how do I get rid of it? Back honing on the 8K Norton? Will stropping on the bare leather take care of it?

One more bit of info---when I sent my DA in to Ken to have rehoned after having stropped it on the paste for those 30 laps, he said the edge looked like a hack saw blade under the microscope. Perhaps that could have been the wire edge you mention?

We can speculate all day long about what went wrong but we do know that 2 razors have met the same fate after being stropped on the chrome ox strop. So... lets stop using that particular pasted strop.
Replace it with a 0.5 micron chrome ox pasted PADDLE STROP with the chrome ox coming from ChrisL or Handamerican. Do not use the green compound bars from Woodcraft or Leevalley or the green compound from DOVO.

Removing a wire edge... oh boy... I try to follow the approach of using the least aggressive method first.

1. Strop on a plain leather hanging strop for 200 laps, test shave
2. Run the edge thru a wooden match stick or cork or balsa wood, strop for 60 laps & test shave.
3. Backhone on a 8K for 10-15laps, then hone normally for 7 laps, strop and test shave.
4. Back hone on the 4K for 10 laps then 10 normal laps then to the 8K for 7 laps, strop and test shave.
5. Send the razors out to be re honed.

This would all be much easier if you had a 30X handheld microscope. Then you coul see the results from each step instead of test shaving so much but we have to work with what we got.:)

The fact that you have been shaving successfully says that you know how to properly strop a razor and shave with it. So lets just say that this is an odd event, get the razors back in shape and a different paddle strop and move on.

Sometime back Papabull ( Robert Williams) suggested using a cotton ball to detect a defective edge. Instead of using the TPT and running your thumb along the edge he used a cotton ball and was pleased with the result. Maybe you can try that first to see if it snags anywhere along the edge?

Hope this helps,:)

Randy:

Wow---thanks for the wealth of info! :tu Most helpful. I'll try some of the things you mention.

Payne