Best or Good stones

Hi,
I have this thing about only buying the best when I purchase any item. So as I set out in my new straight blade venture I purchased a quality DOVO razor and found the best (for me) shaving cream/soap/whatever you call it, plus a good aftershave lotion.

When I purchased my straight blade I purchased a quality strop and a quality brush. I even conscripted my favorite wide mouth Donald Duck cup into service as my lathering cup.
I've used razors to shave with since I first started shaving. Electric razors felt "weird" and chaffed my baby butt soft face so after one time with the electric I gave it away. That was well over thirty five years ago.

The first time I used a straight razor to shave with I was very impressed with the results. I actually "enjoyed" the experience!
So now I come to purchasing honing stones. I done some research on water stones "Norton" and oil stones. As I stated above, I only buy the best, or what best suites me (like my beer, the darker the better!).

I welcome any advice about which stones are better and why. Thanks!

The best? Don is selling two Eschers in the classifieds... Not sure about the grit on those two. Anyway...

You'll have plenty of choices and everyone will tell you something different. The differences between synthetic stones and naturals et al is really personal in terms of your own experience and honing style/s. I think others should be along to give you better answers and/or opinions. You'll probably want to at least check out Nortons, Shaptons, Natural Japanese stones, Eschers, Coticules, Belgians, etc.

As Alex noted, best is very subjective. For example, I am most certain that I cannot attach 'best' to your Dovo - I have many razors that I like a lot better than it.

Norton is a good stone, but many people feel that the Shaptons are better. You also need to understand that most hones are good for a very specific task and not good for another. For example the best finishing stone is completely useless to get a razor sharp - it can only get an extremely sharp razor even sharper.

Personally I like natural hones better than man-made ones, but that doesn't mean they are better. They are better for me and I have spent a lot more on coticules, eschers and japanese than I would have spent had I preferred man-made hones.

The "best" is a matter of personal preferences. What is the best car or the best Scotch?
That said I have DMT, Norton, Spiderco, Shapton, and other natural and synthetic hones and use them all.

With out being Zen like... "The Razor Chooses The Hone"

If I had to start over I would start with the Shapton Glasstones 1000, 4000, 8000, 1600. I use them 75% of the time.

Other Opinions May Vary

Welcome to the forum and congrats on your first experience. "The best"-well, that'll definitely open a can-o-worms. I too have many Dovo's- it is a GOOD razor, I don't think you'll get anyone to disagree with that statement. Best....:hmmm: Look up my post and view the pics of my Joe Chandler Damascus or other members Livi's,Zowada's....you might realize there is quite difference of opinion here. That said, there is a Dovo in my current rotation that gives a great shave.

Hones and their acquisition, are a passionate subject. Many of us have started with the Norton 4/8 and then progressed to natural stones,DMT's and Shapton's. The escher's are coveted and can literally cost $1000's of dollars.

In short, buying the BEST hone or razor is like buying the BEST automobile, the BEST wristwatch etc.,etc..IMO, you would be better served by WHAT would SERVE YOU-at YOUR current SKILL level.

One thing I can say with absolute conviction- you could literally spend $2500,give the UPS guy a sore back-and turn a "good" razor into junk. Buying the BEST is at BEST- a pie in the sky. Good Luck.:w

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Originally Posted by Lt.Arclight

In short, buying the BEST hone or razor is like buying the BEST automobile, the BEST wristwatch etc.,etc..IMO, you would be better served by WHAT would SERVE YOU-at YOUR current SKILL level.

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+1 on this one.

The Norton 4K/8K is probably the most used "beginner" hone due to the length of time it's been around, so it should be the easy to get help on it, but the Shapton GS series is quickly gaining popularity and it seems to be quit a lot of members using those also, so it should be easy to get support on the GS stones.

Choose a hone that will match your skill level, after all the result will be the same, a shave ready razor.

What ever hone setup you decide upon, be sure the spend enough time on learning to use each hone to it's full potential instead of "rushing" through the grit's in search of a decent edge.

In my opinion the best are Brunette's with green eyes, although a Blonde with blue eyes is right up there on my list too.... Oh were talking hones???
same difference :w



BTW here is an interesting link http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...torations.html

I recommend the Norton 4/8 and the Chinese 12K . Reason being they work well and they are cheaper then the Shapton Glasstones, Coticules, Eschers etcetera. If you stick with this you can move on to the more expensive options. Bottom line is that the only way to find our which hone you will like the best among the many available is to try them. That can get expensive so I would say dip your foot in the water before you dive in.

You will need a progression of hones depending on what you want to do. Only you can decide whether you want diamond coated plates like the DMT series, manufactured hones like the Shapton hones or natural stones like the yellow coticules, Eschers, and Japanese hones. ...or some combination of the above. Everyone has their preferences. If you just need to maintain your razors you could get by with a yellow coticule and a Nakayama Japanese hone and the Nakayama is really optional.

gugi at the risk of hi-jacking this thread. What natural stones do you use in your honing progression?

Thanks

best? one of each is best.
edit:
perhaps this interest in straight razors will help you grow as a person. The word best is philosophical once you leave the sweat shops.

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Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

best? one of each is best.
edit:
perhaps this interest in straight razors will help you grow as a person. The word best is philosophical once you leave the sweat shops.

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Great comments, Ditch Doc. I could never have said it that well and agree with everything you've said.

I'll muddy the waters even more by saying that you'll never own "the best" stones. It's true certain stones perform certain functions. Even within each category, most specifically within the natural stones, there is subtle but oftentimes significant variation. Some Japanese natural stones can cost thousands of dollars. Some, by Mr. Yama.s.h.i.t.a and his son So, who own the largest collection of J Nats in the world, aren't for sale at any price.

If you do go down the path of collecting and using hones/stones, along the way you WILL most likely come across a few stones that you wouldn't sell (I have a few coticule combos that I'll never sell and a Tam O' Shanter). But with naturals will you ever have the best of a particular breed?

If you DON'T think you're interested in collecting hones/stones, you have a big budget and you just want a full setup you'd be happy with (after practicing and practicing and practicing) and would keep it's resale value if you don't like it, then the Shapton ceramic on glass stones are it for a full line of manufactured stones. No other manufactured line can touch it in the number of grits available (500 grit to 30,000 grit) and with that broad range, I'd say full performance (from bevel set through final polish) wise as well. A complete set along with the Glass Diamond Lapping Plate will cost you around or over a grand.

Welcome to our world.

Chris L

Oh, and I actually have TWO Tam O' Shanters. Someday, not now, but someday I may let the second one go. If I do sell it, at some point I'd probably throw it on the Bay and let it find it's new owner that way.

My humble opinion is that the most versatile stone (by far) is the coticule - as you can put a really nice edge on just about anything with it, you can use it with a slurry to cut fast, you can use it with water to polish, or you can even use it dry to refine the edge even more. Overall it's a great stone.

Beyond that though I agree with what most of the others have said - Japanese stones are the way to go, but big $$ for incremental gains above 16k.

my thoughts? a coticule + sharpton 16k and 30k should be enough for anyone to put a wicked edge on anything. But you can do it with a coticule alone.

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Originally Posted by Adventurer627

gugi at the risk of hi-jacking this thread. What natural stones do you use in your honing progression?

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For setting the bevel and honing out chips I use DMT Extra Fine, then I have belgians (blues and coticules), eschers (one is thuringian w/o a label) and a nakayama. I also have a norton and few barber hones that I almost never use.

The one thing you will need is advice on honing from the guys here. If you use either a Norton 4000/8000, or a Begian blue and belgian coticule, or a set of Shapton glass hones, then you will have a bunch of guys who have experience with those hones who can help you.

Belgians, blue is about 4000 grit, yellow is 8000-10,000 grit. Can be used with a slurry, water only, lather or dry. Slow cutters. Not good for restoring a damaged edge.
Easy to keep in working shape.

Norton 4000/8000 combo hone. Inexpensive, faster cutting than the Belgians. Has been used by many people on this forum.Lots of help available. Requires a lot more upkeep (soaking, cleaning, flattening) than the Belgians or Shapton glass hones.

Shapton glass hones. New kid on the block but getting some rave reviews. Easy to use like the Belgians ( no soaking required) but still require cleaning ( like the Nortons) and flattening. All hones require flattening from time to time but the Shapton needs a more expensive hone for flattening.
The durability of the hones has yet to be determined.

The basic hones are a 4000 grit and a 8000 grit.
A 1000 grit is necessary to remove visible nicks and old oxidised edges. Many of us use 1000 grit wet/dry sandpaper for this.
A 10,000 grit and finer is a luxury, not a necessity.
Get the basics first.

Just my $.02,:)

Thanks for the advice. It sounds strange, but I love shaving with a straight razor instead of a regular razor. Straight razor shaving gives me a whhole lot of control to get the look I want.

Best Regards,
Robert

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Originally Posted by keljian

My humble opinion is that the most versatile stone (by far) is the coticule - as you can put a really nice edge on just about anything with it, you can use it with a slurry to cut fast, you can use it with water to polish, or you can even use it dry to refine the edge even more. Overall it's a great stone.

Beyond that though I agree with what most of the others have said - Japanese stones are the way to go, but big $$ for incremental gains above 16k.

my thoughts? a coticule + sharpton 16k and 30k should be enough for anyone to put a wicked edge on anything. But you can do it with a coticule alone.

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I couldn't agree more. I don't own the shaptons mentioned, but I recently purchased a Nakayama from Old_school. It surely lives up to its top notch reputation, but after two weeks of testing, it does not leave my best coticule finished edges far behind.

Bottom line:
-hands down, best and most versatile hone: a quality coticule.
-most fun to use & doing yourself a treat hone: a quality Nakayama from Old_School.

Of course, owning both, this is a highly biassed opinion. :w

Best regards,
Bart.

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Originally Posted by riversalmon

Thanks for the advice. It sounds strange, but I love shaving with a straight razor instead of a regular razor. Straight razor shaving gives me a whhole lot of control to get the look I want.

Best Regards,
Robert

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That doesn't sound strange to me at all. Quite normal actually. :nj

The best! As everyone that replied stated that is subjective. As my late Uncle Mel once said “Buy the best of what ever you are going to buy so you are not wanting something better later. If you can’t afford it, don’t buy it until you can buy the ‘best’ wait until you can.” To me, the best is what meets my needs better that anything else I know of. To fine the “Best” hone you have to specify what you want it to do, how fast you want it to cut, what kind of effort to results you are looking for and the cost to result ratio that makes you happy. As Gugi stated, “most hones are good for a very specific task and not good for another”. Do a lot of research and decide what you want your hones and razors to do and how you want them to perform. Your post here is a good step in the right direction, but it should not end here. In the end, the better research you do in what ever you buy the happier you will be in your purchase and the closer to the ‘best’ (for you) you will come realizing that some time in the future you may find other information or you experience with the item changes your criteria and you item will no longer be the ‘Best”. Good luck on your quest.