troubles with blade sharpness

I'm getting discouraged here, so I need some advice. I've been using a straight for a couple of months now.

My equipment: I have two blades I got from Lynn, both carbon steel, a Tony Miller latigo/horsehide strop, and a practice strop I put some chromium oxide on.

My beard: The hair on my face is, maybe, average density, meaning I can grow a decent beard with a couple of thin spots on the cheeks (but I'm not here to grow a beard, ya know). My facial hair is very coarse, and grows fast, so each individual whisker is thick and there is a good deal of length to shave off each day.

My current technique: I strop 50 times on the latigo, 25 times on the horsehide. I do have Lynn's video so I think I'm stropping correctly (who knows?). I do three standard passes: WTG, XTG, ATG. My chin is the toughest part to get close, enough so that I often cheat and touch that up with an electric. :o

My first pass is always the most painful and the razor feels like it's pulling. There's no easy slicing of the blade through the whiskers here. The second and third passes are better, though not the ease I have been expecting. I usually end up with a pretty decent shave. My post-shave irritation comes and goes, but it is certainly better than when I started.

I want shaves to be comfortable. I want shaves like I see on all the videos! All the videos I've watched seem to show people who looked like they shaved 4 hours before.

So, should the first pass feel different than the rest? Does thecoarseness of my beard make a difference? Is there more resistance because the hair is longer? Where's the glide?

I recently fixed up my chromium oxide strop since my blades weren't performing. I only did 5 passes. Afterwards, my blades seemed worse, harsh.

I'm missing that magic. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Ray

If the razors came from Lynn, they were probably as sharp as they get. However, you can easily round, and thereby dull, the edge with improper stropping technique. Do you razors still pass all the sharpness tests as detailled here: Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Wiki ?

Furthermore, preparation is essential, especially if you have a coarse beard. Lynn's DVD explains that well (although I personally find that the towel part is a bit over the top, but that is a personal preference). I found out that for me, Castle Forbes pre shave and shaving cream make a huge difference. The whiskers are noticeably easier to cut, particularly during the first (i.e. WTG) pass. I got far inferior results from other, equally well respected brands, which only goes to show that skin and whiskers will vary wildly, and there is no simple solution to a problem as complex as shaving.

Last thing that comes to mind is your shaving technique itself. I have found that a combination of scything and slicing motions helps a lot, but it took me months to get there. Mapping your beard growth meticulously, and then outlining the route of least resistance helped me a lot.

You have the right equipment. Your razors "should" be up to the task. After you get the razor ready to shave all stropped up-do you touch the blade? At all? Short of a hanging hair test -nothing should touch that edge but your face.

I too use Castle Forbes "The Pre-Shave" and even after a hot shower I use hot towels. My beard is very coarse and like wire-the hot towels really do perform a function. If I skip that stage even the sharpest razor pulls alittle. I think the most important step is to pre-lather and then use a hot towel, this seems to really soften the whisker, at least in my experience.

If for some reason I don't shower prior to shaving- I MUST absolutely,positively perform a thorough pre-shave prep with a LOT of HOT water or the shave isn't comfortable.

Basically, I'd suggest that after you strop your razor-DON'T TOUCH IT. DO use HOT TOWELS even after a HOT shower. Make sure you lather then allow a hot towel to let the shaving soap get into and soften the whiskers. And make sure you S-T-R-E-T-C-H the skin during the first pass. GOOD LUCK.

Hi, I know exactly where you are at, I'm only just breaking beyond the same stage myself.

I found that the key for me was an extremely sharp adge, a very sharp edge just wasn't good enough.:chop:

It wasn't until I finally got a Belgian Yellow coticule stone (only a 4"x1.5" bout direct from Ardenne) and started using Cro OX on the linen side of my strop (don't copy me here, leather would be better) that I really got that edge, and only on one of my razors, I'm currently practising wiht about 8.

My first one came pre-sharpened by Lynn, but I couldn't get a good shave with it, can't say why but I don't blame him for a second. I spent 2 months rehoning on a Norton 4/8k and just stropping with linen and leather but couldn't cut it, it pulled painfully every time, only the Dovo (bevel set by Lynn) got close but still hurt, the hairs were being pulled before cutting, despite good lather and prep.

I think the key for me was the good finishing stone, the coticule is creamy to use and really leaves a good edge. Also I am now careful not to overhone and leave a an edge too thin that is brittle and quickly degrades. I did that for a long time. First pass great, second not so good, third pass had to stop.

I have found that with my ebay cheapies I re-set the bevel on 800 wet and dry paper laid flat on glass, do about 6-10 passes on the 4k, about 5-10 on the 8k, then onto the coticule for 10 or more. Always check with the thumb for an edge that bites about every 5 passes, once you have that edge stop!

:nono:

Then move on to a finer hone and just do a few passes.

If the razor has a warped edge or any kind of slight deformation then I use a 1"x5" Tam O'Shanter hone (about 6k grit) and straight from teh 8ook paper this will smooth up nicely, then the coticule.

It is this constant practice on many razors that has developed my technique and made me learn the many subtleties of sharpening a straight.

I'd say go straight to the top and get a Coticule to finish on, buy an ebay cheapy to practice on and understand that this is an art to be mastered, it will take time.

But once you get that first smooth shave with no pulling and a shiny chin from a razor you sharpened yourself it will be worth all the time and effort.

:y



:gl:

I'll concur with most everything that you've been told thus far. I've been shaving with a straight for 31 years and I can tell you unequivocally that stropping can make or break your shaving experience depending on how well you perform this important procedure. I'm willing to wager that you have rolled your edge. Sometimes folks get to scientific on honing and stropping thus adding to your confusion. A straight razor is nothing more than steel that you sharpen to a fine cutting edge. Stropping is nothing more than aligning the sharpened blade. Don't think about it so technically. My advice is to touch up your blade on a fine hone...perhaps 10-12 laps on 8000 should do. Then perhaps 50 laps on a very fine polishing hone. Then 10-12 passes on green CroOx followed by 40-5- passes on leather strop should give you the shave of your life. None of this however is any good to you if you've never felt what it's like to shave with a really sharp, shave ready razor. If you do not feel comfortable honing yourself you can PM me and I'll hone it for you for free. I will only require that you pay the shipping both ways. This is also assuming you have no chips or nicks in your blade.

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Originally Posted by Dean65

I'll concur with most everything that you've been told thus far. I've been shaving with a straight for 31 years and I can tell you unequivically that stropping can make or break your shaving experience depending on how well you perform this important procedure. I'm willing to wager that you have rolled your edge. Sometimes folks get to scientific on honing and stropping thus adding to your confusion. A straight razor is nothing more than steel that you sharpen to a fine cutting edge. Stropping is nothing more than aligning the sharpened blade. Don't think about it so technically. My advice is to touch up your blade on a fine hone...perhaps 10-12 laps on 8000 should do. Then perhaps 50 laps on a very fine polishing hone. Then 10-12 passes on green CroOx followed by 40-5- passes on leather strop should give you the shave of your life. None of this however is any good to you if you've never felt what it's like to shave with a really sharp, shave ready razor. If you do not feel comfortable honing yourself you can PM me and I'll hone it for you for free. I will only require that you pay the shipping both ways. This is also assuming you have no chips or nicks in you blade.

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+1 Excellent advise here. I would be willing to bet that you rolled the edge too. This is personal experience speaking; did it on more than one of my blades that was honed by a honemeister when I first started. Keep the strop very taunt and apply no pressure on the blade; let the weight of the blade do the work.

Thanks, all, for the advice. I didn't mention my prep, and some of the responses I got have to do with that, so here goes. I take a hot shower before I shave, mainly focusing on getting lots of flowing hot water on my beard. After, I keep my face wet while preparing my lather, and usually use Forbes pre-shave. I lather with Forbes creams. They are amazing.

Lt.ArcLight, I don't pre-lather, but I'll try that. I think I'm more in the wire-for-whickers category, too. I never touch the blade with anything but water after I strop and before I shave. I assume water is okay. :D

(Pause)

BeBerlin, I just performed the sharpness tests and the results seem mixed. For the TPT, both razors felt more like a sharp knife. On the HHT, I could get the hair to cut in some places on the razor and not others, but I think in all places, I was moving a little too fast.

I've been holding off on being diagnosed with HAD. I was hoping to really enjoy shaving for X days so I would know I'm spending my money wisely by buying hones. I guess I'll get advice just as good for honing as I have for shaving.

But before I start down that road, I'll take Dean65 up on his offer for one more chance at that gliding feeling with a like-new shave-ready razor.

Thanks All,
Ray

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hermeticpiper

Thanks, all, for the advice. I didn't mention my prep, and some of the responses I got have to do with that, so here goes. I take a hot shower before I shave, mainly focusing on getting lots of flowing hot water on my beard. After, I keep my face wet while preparing my lather, and usually use Forbes pre-shave. I lather with Forbes creams. They are amazing.

Lt.ArcLight, I don't pre-lather, but I'll try that. I think I'm more in the wire-for-whickers category, too. I never touch the blade with anything but water after I strop and before I shave. I assume water is okay. :D

(Pause)

BeBerlin, I just performed the sharpness tests and the results seem mixed. For the TPT, both razors felt more like a sharp knife. On the HHT, I could get the hair to cut in some places on the razor and not others, but I think in all places, I was moving a little too fast.

I've been holding off on being diagnosed with HAD. I was hoping to really enjoy shaving for X days so I would know I'm spending my money wisely by buying hones. I guess I'll get advice just as good for honing as I have for shaving.

But before I start down that road, I'll take Dean65 up on his offer for one more chance at that gliding feeling with a like-new shave-ready razor.

Thanks All,
Ray

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Hello Ray. From what you have said if you have pulling on the first pass or any pass your razor is not sharp and smooth enough. It's time to invest in some decent hones and start learning the honing process. A good place to start would be the Norton 4K X 8K plus a finishing hone like the Chinese 12K or for a few more bucks get the Shapton 16K. After that you have the excellent CrO on leather to bring it to its final smoothness. I would use 25 or 30 strokes on the CrO. I would also ease up a bit on the leather strop before shaving. I like to go about 20 on each side and make sure you are using light pressure on the strop.

bj

If you shower before your shave, at the beginning of your shower put some hair conditioner on your beard. It helps smooth out the first pass very well too.

Plus one on what everyone else has said.

I would stress the part about mapping your growth pattern. It won't help you with why the blades are pulling but once you solve that part it will really help in getting that BBS shave. I find that even now after months of shaving I am still finding areas that grow in odd directions. You'll notice these areas because they are the first spots of growth you notice after your shave because you thought you were going ATG there but in reality it was really XTG.

Hi Lemon! :nj

I am actually providing stropping paste on SRP and I already have a block of my RED paste in USA waiting... (A problem with the post-office made me ship twice the product...)

If you're quick enough, I may offer it to you for at a reduced price.

For further info, just click on my signature...

Take care!:tu

BBS yours,

Valentin

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

Mapping your beard growth meticulously, and then outlining the route of least resistance helped me a lot.

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Me too, and I'm still mapping mine out and getting better shaves as my map improves.

Also, stretch your skin as necessary to help the whiskers meet the blade at an easy cutting angle. Stretching will also help flatten those small folds in your skin where stubble likes to hide and razors like to hang up on (which can give me grief around my chin and all over my neck)