Strop mid-shave?

Does anyone else feel like they need to strop mid-shave?
Today I did my FIRST solely straight razor shave, with no DE touchups. For the past week, i have been slowly shaving more and more of my face withthe straight, as I get comfortable with it. Today, I did three full passes. W-X-A.
It's pretty good, nowhere near as good as I can get with a DE (though I know it will get there with practice). No blood, almost no irritation.

However, by the third pass, the blade was cutting noticeably less well. I had stropped thoroughly before the shave. My beard is pretty tough, but not fully wire-like. I was shaving with a Rup- sharpened DA. (Which started off the shave feeling much sharper and smoother than my first 'starter" razor that I got last week).
So, do I need a mid-shave strop?
Is my lather getting "old" maybe? Or perhaps the time out of the shower is letting my beard dry out and get tough again.

Occasionally I strop midshave when I realize I didn't strop enough before my shave

Never feel like the blade is dulling mid shave?

Yes, but that's when I figure I just didn't strop enough beforehand. It happens to me fairly often though... Maybe I need to experiment

AH, got it..."enough." That was a big word I missed when I read your post the first time. I thought you meant you forgot to strop before hand. Seemed like an odd step to forget. Makes much more sense now. No more posting before I've had a second cup of coffee in the morning.

if it keeps happening, I'll have to experiment with stainless steel 9holds an edge better). There is one custom maker (maybe more?) using S30V...assuming it can take a good shaving edge...it should be able to handle a six pass shave without dulling!

I just figured it out, the razor I have been using to shave, almost exclusively (there are days where I just don't have time and grab the triple blade disposable) for about 3.5 months. at first I didn't strop half-way, now there are days that I do, I'll do one side of the my handsome face then on the other it isn't feeling as sharp and I'll strop it. but this was only after it started to dull.

Red

I usually strop between passes. Not that I've ever really felt the need to...I do it just, well because I can :) Why not?

Jordan

I will strop occasionally mid shave. It is generally,at least IMO, an indication that the blade probably wasn't shave ready to begin with.It is a P.I.T.A.-but I keep a spare razor-stropped and ready to go.

I'd rather change razors than strop while wet and lathered up.:hmmm::roflmao

I strop between the first and second pass, I re-lather and let the lather soak in again while I go 20 laps... More for something to pass the time while the second lather does it's job... But hey remember that it is your face, your razor, and your strop so do what ya want!!!!!

When I am doing a test shave on a newly honed and stropped razor I may strop after the first pass if I feel it needs it. Alternatively I may hit it on Chrom ox on a loom strop. I only do it if the I feel it will improve the second pass. If that is the case I go back to the hones to further refine the edge as it hasn't passed the shave test for me.

I have tried it off and on: unless the razor is in a bad way, I don't get much out of it. Then again, I haven't been very systematic about it.

I do my initial WTG shave, then lather up immediately so the beard is still hydrating as I almost always do some touch up stropping. Generally only about 20 back and forth passes, if it takes more I probably started from a less than properly stropped edge. Then I reapply lather once more as the time to re-strop probably dried the lather a bit. Carry on from there, ATG, redo areas, and nit picking on my upper lip. I may do some more stropping here but in all honesty if I am that far without desired results, it generally does not make much difference at that point.

Thanks everyone for all the great feedback.
I tried this morning, after teh ATG pass, when I felt the razor was losig its edge a bit. 20 passes while the third lather sat on my face. WOW. What a difference!

It might mean that I am not stropping enough, or perhaps not WELL enough. This razor is by far my best shaver to date (says the man who only has three razors and a half dozen straight shaves under his belt.) It startes off much smoother than any other, but felt pretty dull by the end. Not today.

I think I will strop and prepare two razors from now on, so I don'thave to strop between passes. Hey...who DOESN'T want to get to use TWO of their razors every day!!!

Have never tried this but I am intrigued now and may have to experiment just for the heck of it.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, I NEVER strop between passes. If a razor feels like it's starting to go during the shave, I'll earmark it for 50 linen and 50 leather before the next and final shave before ending up in the "needs honing" pile. On the other hand I can't normally go more that a couple weeks with a razor between honings but the honings are light.... maybe 50/60 round trips on my coticule or 20 to 30 passes on a Shapton 16k and about 50 on my pasted benchstrop and it's back to normal for another 2 weeks of shaving.

Regards

Christian

Sometimes I strop while shaving, but not often. Sometimes I'll strop before my ATG pass; sometimes I'll strop before more difficult areas (like the chin, or around the upper lip). I do find that it helps a bit, especially if I'm doing three passes, but I've never found it to be necessary.

I also don't particularly enjoy stropping, and I don't usually wait for lather to soak into my face/beard (I shave after I shower), so there is no real incentive for me to strop while shaving.

Do you all think this might be highly dependent on technique? I think there is general agreement that one can significantly round/dull an edge stropping by lifting the spine. and stropping is spine first. When you're shaving you're going edge first. Your skin may not be quite as agressive as a strop but it's got to be similar (and then there are those pesky whiskers too). So let's say you shave with a 40* angle. Wouldn't there be a significantly different effect on the blade between shaving at a 15* angle?

Quick,

Check out this article: WONDER PHOTOS REVEAL UNSUSPECTED FACTS ABOUT Razor Blades and Shaving

Yes, I've read that. That addresses the damage done to an edge by shaving and the effectiveness in repairing that damage by stropping. ...and then I forgot about it in the context of this thread (what can I say :) I'm old with a weak mind).

No doubt that shaving damages/dulls the edge. No doubt that a strop can repair that damage to some extent (or damage it). But the thread is about stropping mid shave. Some people seem to experience a marked effect and others don't feel it's significant enough to strop mid shave. In the article I believe they showed damage (and the subsequent repair by stropping) after 4 shaves of a "tough" beard.

The implication was that they shaved 4 times and then stropped once. Surely the opinions in this thread are subjective and different razors in different states of prep with different abilities to hold an edge were used, but I'm guessing most here use decent razors all in a decent state. Everyone agrees that stropping between shaves is necessary and most feel it's sufficient. Surely there is some damage from a single shaving stroke but probably not enough to warrant stropping by anyone's measure.

So... I was speculating that shaving technique/angle may be the next most significant factor in explaining why some feel the need to strop mid shave and others don't. Maybe 2 or 3 (or more) times the damage is done when shaving at a 40* angle than shaving the same beard at a 15* angle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quick

No doubt that shaving damages/dulls the edge

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I posted that only because the article indicates that the the reason a blade needs to be sharpened is apparently because of the corrosion that develops along the edge due to moisture, and not because the beard hair mis-shapes the edge of the razor therefore requiring restraightening on the strop (please correct me if I misunderstood what I skimmed in the article...) So if you were to believe the article, the damage done by the shaving itself is only due to the moisture on your face, and I wonder if any significant amount of rust is actually accumulating on the razor edge before your second or third passes during the shave. (Which it must, if corrosion is the primary factor in dulling the razor. It also makes me wonder how many faces one could shave before needing to strop again - what do the barbers say?)

I've also thought that a more efficient shaving stroke would probably prolong the trueness of the razor's edge, but I don't have any direct evidence to support my fledgling theory. Does anyone find it necessary to strop midshave with a stainless steel razor? Do really soft steels require more frequent stropping than hard steels or is it only a matter of rust resistance? I don't know but I'm sure someone can help us find out

Then again there are those who will say a mach 3 lasts 30 shaves, and others who say it only lasts 3 shaves. :shrug:

I did the 2 razor technique today. Very nice.

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Originally Posted by hoglahoo

I posted that only because the article indicates that the the reason a blade needs to be sharpened is apparently because of the corrosion that develops along the edge due to moisture, and not because the beard hair mis-shapes the edge of the razor therefore requiring restraightening on the strop (please correct me if I misunderstood what I skimmed in the article...) So if you were to believe the article, the damage done by the shaving itself is only due to the moisture on your face, and I wonder if any significant amount of rust is actually accumulating on the razor edge before your second or third passes during the shave. (Which it must, if corrosion is the primary factor in dulling the razor. It also makes me wonder how many faces one could shave before needing to strop again - what do the barbers say?)

I've also thought that a more efficient shaving stroke would probably prolong the trueness of the razor's edge, but I don't have any direct evidence to support my fledgling theory. Does anyone find it necessary to strop midshave with a stainless steel razor? Do really soft steels require more frequent stropping than hard steels or is it only a matter of rust resistance? I don't know but I'm sure someone can help us find out

Then again there are those who will say a mach 3 lasts 30 shaves, and others who say it only lasts 3 shaves. :shrug:

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I disagree somewhat with the corrosion theory. Case in point. When skinning a deer, it goes much more smoothly and efficiently if you have several sharp knives. If you only have one, it will dull and require resharpening. Look at an abbatoir. They resharpen their knives several times per day. Even when preparing a meal, I notice a significant dulling in the edge of my chef's knife.

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Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

I disagree somewhat with the corrosion theory.

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It could be that cutting dry hair, skin, or at a high angle with greater pressure will dull the edge faster than corrosion could. Quick was quick to note that, and maybe the photographs from that article are not enough to tell the whole story!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quick

Yes, I've read that. That addresses the damage done to an edge by shaving and the effectiveness in repairing that damage by stropping. ...and then I forgot about it in the context of this thread (what can I say :) I'm old with a weak mind).

No doubt that shaving damages/dulls the edge. No doubt that a strop can repair that damage to some extent (or damage it). But the thread is about stropping mid shave. Some people seem to experience a marked effect and others don't feel it's significant enough to strop mid shave. In the article I believe they showed damage (and the subsequent repair by stropping) after 4 shaves of a "tough" beard.

The implication was that they shaved 4 times and then stropped once. Surely the opinions in this thread are subjective and different razors in different states of prep with different abilities to hold an edge were used, but I'm guessing most here use decent razors all in a decent state. Everyone agrees that stropping between shaves is necessary and most feel it's sufficient. Surely there is some damage from a single shaving stroke but probably not enough to warrant stropping by anyone's measure.

So... I was speculating that shaving technique/angle may be the next most significant factor in explaining why some feel the need to strop mid shave and others don't. Maybe 2 or 3 (or more) times the damage is done when shaving at a 40* angle than shaving the same beard at a 15* angle.

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An interesting point. Let's look at it like this: Skinning an animal versus cutting meat and separating joints. The knife used to skin an animal should be very keen, and it is used at a very low angle, let's say 10-20 degrees. The knife used to cut meat and dejoint is also very sharp, but uses a higher angle of grind, so that it will not get quite as keen, but still be very sharp. Sacrificing that extra fine edge for durability because it is used at a 90 degree angle. Now, that being said, let's look at shaving. What is the angle of a straight? I know I shave at about a 30 degree angle. This should lead to having a very low grind angle. That grind angle is very keen, but also very thin. That means it is susceptible to damage much easier than a razor with a higher grind angle, but it also provides a superior shave. The strop will correct these defects in a raor with a very low grind angle, because there isn't as much metal to turn. Does this make sense?

Well, they said something to the effect that "it's known" that the main cause of edge degradation is due to corrosion when compared to shaving but they (apparently) didn't look at that for the study.

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Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

An interesting point. Let's look at it like this: Skinning an animal versus cutting meat and separating joints. The knife used to skin an animal should be very keen, and it is used at a very low angle, let's say 10-20 degrees. The knife used to cut meat and dejoint is also very sharp, but uses a higher angle of grind, so that it will not get quite as keen, but still be very sharp. Sacrificing that extra fine edge for durability because it is used at a 90 degree angle. Now, that being said, let's look at shaving. What is the angle of a straight? I know I shave at about a 30 degree angle. This should lead to having a very low grind angle. That grind angle is very keen, but also very thin. That means it is susceptible to damage much easier than a razor with a higher grind angle, but it also provides a superior shave. The strop will correct these defects in a raor with a very low grind angle, because there isn't as much metal to turn. Does this make sense?

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Ummm, I think that would be a separate issue altogether but may account for some of the difference in degradation during a shave between people/razors/etc. It would seem that one edge angle could be better suited to a particular shaving angle than a different edge angle. Different variable and maybe different issue.

Let's assume that everyone sets their bevel with the spine flat on the stone and lets also assume that spines are designed to create a specific bevel (roughly the same for every razor). Haha, yet another subject but just to control the variables...

Some people on this thread commented that stropping mid shave made a significant difference for them and others commented that it didn't make so much of a difference. To discuss that without a controlled experiment we'll have to make assumptions on the other variables.

My speculation is that shave angle (given everything else is constant) would be a major contributor (if not THE major contributor) to increased edge degradation during a shave.

Other related issues (in the context of a single shave, and correction to the extent achievable by stropping):
* Is there a significant difference between regular carbon and stainless steel?
* Can bevel angle be optimized to a particular shave angle for a significant effect?
* Are spine widths specifically designed to effect a specific bevel angle when honing?

For everything you'd need some constraints (many subjective) like shave comfort, closeness, etc.

This would be a really good study for an engineering student. I did the two razor technique today, and I found it to be more comfortable than the usual. I believe it is the shaving that dulls the razor, and corrosion is a distant second. Certainly, a blade dulls by cutting things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

This would be a really good study for an engineering student. I did the two razor technique today, and I found it to be more comfortable than the usual. I believe it is the shaving that dulls the razor, and corrosion is a distant second. Certainly, a blade dulls by cutting things.

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That may well be true for the population here. Many/most meticulously dry and clean/oil tiheir blades regularly. I suspect that back when shaving with a straight was more prevalent the majority of people stropped, shaved, and tossed the razor in the medicine cabinet after running it under the tap and maybe shaking it.

What I get from the article is the edge is damaged: By corrosion and distortion. The strop cleans the corrosion and realigns the the bent edge. I feel that the razor has let me down if it cannot complete a shave without needing to be stropped.

On the few occasions I have tried mid shave strop. it helped. I assume it is misalignment via first pass. Could be angle, face wire, edge too thin...

Realistically I bet all my shaves would be improved by doing it. I just don't want too, manage without it. It can be nice but not necessary. I also shave directly off the hone and sometimes skip a stropping to get a better feel for whats happening in the invisible world of sharp. But I have never stopped stropping all together to see how long a given razor will go.

if you're thinking you may need to grow a gotee and stropping helps_ god speed