Complete Newbie is lost

Hello.
I'm new to both this site and using a straight razor and as such, I'm a bit overwhelmed and would appreciate it you help could be provided.
I think a little intro would be in order first considering this is my first post here. I'm a guy, I'm 19 and I live in Australia. I was attracted to start using a straight razor for several reasons. One I like the tradition behind it, and would like to be apart of that history and tradition. Two I like the idea of a crafted object, that I take care of and cherish that lasts me a long time. I don't mind taking longer to shave because I feel slowing down, and taking your care with something whatever it may be, is almost therapeutic, like a meditation. Obviously the inherant benefit of not contributing to the waste that comes with disposing of safety razor heads if attractive too, as is the closest shave possible.

So I went to a shaver shop in my vicinity an inquired about a straight razor, and everything I'd need. The man there sold me a Dovo 5/8t" straight razor with a plastic tortoise shell handle. I also got a leather strop, this one to be precise Black Beauty Leather Razor Strop - Men's Biz

So with the introduction aside, I have some questions I would greatly appreciate being answered. Now be warned, some of these questions are probably annoyingly stupid to some of you.

I gather from what I've taken in so far reading some posts, I need to hone my razor, even though it's new.
I don't plan I buying old razors that need extensive restoration for the interim, so these questions just apply to the razor I have at the moment.

What sort/type of stone do I need to get? Will I need more than one? This is where I'm most clueless as lost of the conversations about hones seem to be about old second hand razors, unless I'm mistaken (which is most likely)

When and how often will I need to hone the razor? I gather when it's blunt, but if I do everything correctly and strop before every use, etc, how often should I be between needing to be honed?

So I've gathered I should be stopping before every shave. Do I do the Hanging Hair Test after stropping to see if I've stropped correctly or for long enough?
(Currently the razor cannot pass the Hanging Hair Test)

The strop I have I'm fairly certain if leather both sides, do I need a canvas or linen side?
When and how often do you use the canvas or linen side if you have one?

Do I strop after shaving too?

Finally the guy at the store mentioned something about needing pastes or oils or something for the strop although he didn't have any in at the time.
What are pastes or oils? What do they do, and do I need them?

Sorry for so many questions and sorry if this stuff has been asked before or if it's infuriatingly stupid, as I said I'm lost and clueless.
I can see now I may have jumped the gun on actually procuring the straight razor, although to be positive my enthusiasm hasn't waned.

Thank-you in advance to anyone who has the patience to put up and answer my questions.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

I gather from what I've taken in so far reading some posts, I need to hone my razor, even though it's new. I don't plan I buying old razors that need extensive restoration for the interim, so these questions just apply to the razor I have at the moment.

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A warm welcome. Just managed a BBS shave with a EUR 5 ePay piece of junk that is up to speed again, courtesy of gugi's Escher and a pair of scales generously donated by gssixgun, as well as endless hours of spoon feeding by the guys from the #srp IRC channel.

Now then, while the Wiki is still a bit of a moving target due to its being new and material being added all the time, you most certainly want to peruse this article at the very minimum: What Every Beginner Should Know - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

What sort/type of stone do I need to get? Will I need more than one? This is where I'm most clueless as lost of the conversations about hones seem to be about old second hand razors, unless I'm mistaken (which is most likely)

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You will not necessarily need a polishing stone at this stage, provided that your razor is indeed shave ready. Which it most likely is not. To answer your question: The Shave Ready Razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

When and how often will I need to hone the razor? I gather when it's blunt, but if I do everything correctly and strop before every use, etc, how often should I be between needing to be honed?

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Honing for Dummies - Straight Razor Place Wiki should have answers to most of your questions.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

So I've gathered I should be stopping before every shave. Do I do the Hanging Hair Test after stropping to see if I've stropped correctly or for long enough?

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The hanging hair test (explained in more detail here: Sharpness tests explained - Straight Razor Place Wiki) can be misleading.

Common consensus seems to be that a razor that passes the HHT is by all means shave ready. The reverse, however, need not necessarily be true.The ultimate test is the shave test, also explained in that article.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

The strop I have I'm fairly certain if leather both sides, do I need a canvas or linen side? When and how often do you use the canvas or linen side if you have one?

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Opinions vary wildly. Personally, I have applied Dovo black paste to the canvas side of my strop, and it helps maintain a sharp edge. You may find the information found in this article helpful, too: Razor stropping - Straight Razor Place Wiki

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Do I strop after shaving too?

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Not necessarily, but at least it is a good way to dry the blade.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Finally the guy at the store mentioned something about needing pastes or oils or something for the strop although he didn't have any in at the time. What are pastes or oils? What do they do, and do I need them?

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Take a look at this: Finishing Pastes - Straight Razor Place Wiki While the guy at the store is not necessarily wrong, he is not necessarily right, either.

Well, BeBerlin's just about covered it!
Unless you're asking questions that can be easily answered by a search the guys here are always very ready to share knowledge & encourage new blood into straight shaving (Pun intended!)
Your razor is good quality & once shave ready will be great.
Enjoy the experience & keep at it.

Thank you, Ben. The following tips and tools might make life on SRP a bit easier, too: http://straightrazorpalace.com/gener...ful-stuff.html

The google search tip has helped me a lot, as the forum's search function is, well, a bit spotty at times.

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

You will not necessarily need a polishing stone at this stage, provided that your razor is indeed shave ready. Which it most likely is not.

Opinions vary wildly. Personally, I have applied Dovo black paste to the canvas side of my strop, and it helps maintain a sharp edge.

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Okay having read those things I feel a bit silly for the some of the question I bombarded you with. :gaah:
Just few things I still need clearing up.

The razor I have isn't really shave ready, but it isn't very unsharp either. So what sort of hone would I need? With you info about paste, so do paste work to sharpen a blade that needs more than a strop, but probably doesn't need to honed, is this thinking correct?
I'm still a bit confused about canvas, does that sharpen the blade a bit more than just leather?
Considering I don't have a canvas side, would adding a paste to a leather work to sharpen?
Do you think I could just do with a paste in the mean time instead of a hone, considering the blade is fairly sharp?
Finally, with the strop, just to sure, I can just strop with it like I got it from the store?

Thank you once again.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Okay having read those things I feel a bit silly for the some of the question I bombarded you with. :gaah:
Just few things I still need clearing up.

The razor I have isn't really shave ready, but it isn't very unsharp either. So what sort of hone would I need? With you info about paste, so do paste work to sharpen a blade that needs more than a strop, but probably doesn't need to honed, is this thinking correct?
I'm still a bit confused about canvas, does that sharpen the blade a bit more than just leather?
Considering I don't have a canvas side, would adding a paste to a leather work to sharpen?
Do you think I could just do with a paste in the mean time instead of a hone, considering the blade is fairly sharp?
Finally, with the strop, just to sure, I can just strop with it like I got it from the store?

Thank you once again.

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I will add my welcome to the SRP. Learning to use a str8 and learning to hone at the same time is a very daunting objective. It can be done, however, it is a very common opinion that is better to have your razor professionally honed first, learn to use it then learn to hone. Honing is not like knife sharpening at all. I often have beginners send me razors to hone that they first attempted to hone themselves. Some razors were even "sharpened" on kitchen knife electric sharpeners. If a razor is improperly sharpened at first. It may require extensive corrective measures to fix the edge. This can mean taking a lot of steal from the razor. Have somebody here hone your first razor. If you are determined to do the honing, I recommend researching the honing threads on the forum. Be prepared to spend a lot more money to get yourself setup to do the honing correctly.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Okay having read those things I feel a bit silly for the some of the question I bombarded you with. :gaah:

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We all started out with those exact same questions. That's why they make good WIKI articles everyone will need the answers. I hope they helped out.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

The razor I have isn't really shave ready, but it isn't very unsharp either. So what sort of hone would I need?

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Heres the rub, how sharp is it if it won't shave? Around here that's dull, it still might be the sharpest thing in your house but if it doesn't cut hair its dull. If you think of it as a dull razor that might help you in deciding wht the next step to take is.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

With you info about paste, so do paste work to sharpen a blade that needs more than a strop, but probably doesn't need to honed, is this thinking correct?

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There are many pastes, some of them do essentially the same job as a hone, some of them are much finer and compliment the work the hone does.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

I'm still a bit confused about canvas, does that sharpen the blade a bit more than just leather?

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This question I wouldn't worry about to much. We all still have it,, there hasn't been a conclusive answer yet.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Considering I don't have a canvas side, would adding a paste to a leather work to sharpen?

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Then you wouldn't have a daily use plain leather strop, and the one you have seems pretty nice. With your dull razor you will need more than one grit anyway.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Do you think I could just do with a paste in the mean time instead of a hone, considering the blade is fairly sharp?

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You can sharpen it using pastes, but I would recommend a progression of three different pastes to do it. So yes, you could use pastes instead of a hone, but you can't skip steps in the honing process by doing so.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Finally, with the strop, just to sure, I can just strop with it like I got it from the store?

Thank you once again.

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As long as it didn't sit on the store shelf for a huge amount of time and isn't cracked, or curled, and all dried out, yes you can use it as it is. Once the leather begins to dry out your strop will need a little care but until then you are good to go. For that care there are dozens of good leather care products out there you might already have a suitable one in the house.


Welcome to the world of the Straight Razor;) There is a ton of stuff to pick up along the way as far as knowledge and well... stuff, but its a lot of fun:)

The next thin to do is get your razor sharpened. As you might have already guessed there are many different ways for you to do that but this being your first blade it would be my recommendation that you send it out. By sending it out for sharpening you will get it back knowing that the edge is good and ready for use. When just starting out you have honestly never seen a piece of steel as sharp as a straight razor ought to be, so it can be pretty hard to get something to that level without anything to compare it to. Not to say a lot of guys haven't done it but I think it makes life a little harder than it has to be. As far as where to send it, there I can't help to much Other than to say there are several members from down under on here and one of them can point you in the right direction.

Good luck!!:cool:

+1 on Kenrup. If you are not planning on buying any older razors and take care not to roll the edgepr damage the edge in any way a barber hone may be all you will need and probably no sooner than 2 months after starting daily shaves w/ your straight. As many here may suggest more expensive hone which will perform better you should consider the price of the hone to the usage you will get from it. When your collection of str8s expands consideration of the more expensive hones would be more appropriate. Of course if your budget allows buy what appeals to you based on your learnings here at SRP. If you are really anxious to learn honing get at least one professionally honed and buy another razor just to practice your honng skills on and compare your results to the Honemister's edge. :gl:

As I have recently found out, there is usually a *big* difference between what a new guy (like you or me) thinks is sharp, and what truly *is* sharp. I would find a honemeister there in Australia to sharpen that blade for you. Then all you really need is stuff to *maintain* the edge, instead of actually sharpening it. There are always multiple solutions to every situation, but here's a pretty good one for maintaining a sharp blade: get a four sided paddle strop. Paste it with 3.0, 1.0, and .75 diamond pastes, then CrOx on the fourth side. When stropping no longer provides you with a comfortably sharp edge, try a few laps on the CrOx, then strop it again. If that doesn't work, go to the .75 for a few laps, then strop it again. You get the idea. :) The nice thing about a pasted paddle strop is it's easier to use than a stone, and you can still get very good results with it. The hardest thing about a pasted paddle strop is making sure you don't apply too much paste. Other than that, it's easy enough for a ham fisted guy like me to use.

If you are using correct technique, using a straight WTG should be every bit as comfortable and irritation free as any other non-straight razor. If it's not, you probably haven't hit sharp yet. :)

Thanks for all the help.

I think I may try and find someone to hone it for me.
If I can't I'll try and get a hone.
I'm been looking at some videos around the place on how to hone, although I'm still lost on the kind on the kind of hone I'd need. I don't mind spending a bit of money if that helps for anyone who can offer advice on what hone(s) I should get. I'm thinking I might try and send it off to get honed, and then get another razor to try myself, so I have a comparison.
To be a bit more clear about the blade, I try a little patch on my hand, and it cuts the hairs, but not very proficiently.
Still confused about what hones to get? Other than that you guys have really helped me out.

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Originally Posted by GuybrushThreewood

Thanks for all the help.

I think I may try and find someone to hone it for me.
If I can't I'll try and get a hone.
I'm been looking at some videos around the place on how to hone, although I'm still lost on the kind on the kind of hone I'd need. I don't mind spending a bit of money if that helps for anyone who can offer advice on what hone(s) I should get. I'm thinking I might try and send it off to get honed, and then get another razor to try myself, so I have a comparison.
To be a bit more clear about the blade, I try a little patch on my hand, and it cuts the hairs, but not very proficiently.
Still confused about what hones to get? Other than that you guys have really helped me out.

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I think you are going down the right path to have someone hone your razor.
Again, welcome to SRP!

Enjoy the journey!!!

Even though I'm going to try and find someone to hone it for me, can someone please still tell me what is a good hone to get, one to sharpen a blade that isn't in bad condition, such as a new straight razor.

The best newbie hone is a Norton 4000/8000 combination grit. One side is 4000 grit and the other is 8000.

VintageBladesLLC::...

You'll also need a flattening stone before you use the hone.

VintageBladesLLC::...

This is absolutely essential. The first time I honed my razor, I didn't realize the hone needed to be flattened, and I nearly shaved my face off afterwards.

I know this does not help you, but... Guybrush Threewood!!! I am 23 but I recognize that name... I loved that game!

Be berlin covered it.
you can get a norton 4000/8000 hone from lie nielsen in S.A., it's $129 plus $9 postage, i found that cheaper than anywhere else once you get it shipped and convert the dollar.
Have fun.

G'day G.T. & welcome mate.
I think it's been mostly covered answer wise but I'l tell you what I was told 26 years ago when I bought my Black Beauty strop.
Any leather conditioner you use goes on the rough side of the leather not the stropping side. The supplier also recommend that lard was the best conditioner. I've done that over the years and the strop is still in use and as supple as can be.
Stiff as a board and hard as glass when it was new btw... And don't put any abrasive paste on the "Finish" side of your strop.
Cheers

Great post, guybrush - I have often wondered exactly what you asked

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Originally Posted by onimaru55

G'day G.T. & welcome mate.
I think it's been mostly covered answer wise but I'l tell you what I was told 26 years ago when I bought my Black Beauty strop.
Any leather conditioner you use goes on the rough side of the leather not the stropping side. The supplier also recommend that lard was the best conditioner. I've done that over the years and the strop is still in use and as supple as can be.
Stiff as a board and hard as glass when it was new btw... And don't put any abrasive paste on the "Finish" side of your strop.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by KingHarvest

The best newbie hone is a Norton 4000/8000 combination grit. One side is 4000 grit and the other is 8000.

Vintage Blades LLC ::...

You'll also need a flattening stone before you use the hone.

Vintage Blades LLC ::...

This is absolutely essential. The first time I honed my razor, I didn't realize the hone needed to be flattened, and I nearly shaved my face off afterwards.

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Thanks for all the help guys. I don't feel so lost anymore.

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Originally Posted by mziter

I know this does not help you, but... Guybrush Threewood!!! I am 23 but I recognize that name... I loved that game!

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Oh it's the best game ever.

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Originally Posted by GhostRida

Be berlin covered it.
you can get a norton 4000/8000 hone from lie nielsen in S.A., it's $129 plus $9 postage, i found that cheaper than anywhere else once you get it shipped and convert the dollar.
Have fun.

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Thanks heaps for this, their near where I live so that works out perfectly.

At the risk of offending some on the forum, I am going to have to jump in here and try and bring some sanity. Over the past several months, I have become increasingly concerned with tendency to make the use and care of straight razors some type of esoteric art. This is simply not the case and is my opinion counter productive to the stated goal of this forum, which is to encourage growth of straight razor shaving.

In truth, straight razor shaving, honing, stroping etc. are nothing more than skills that can be learned by anyone with average, or even below average manual dexterity. Really, consider the fact that back in my father's day, almost everyone who did not want to go about with a full beard used a straight razor, including honing and stropping. For the most part they were average men, and they managed quite well without the needing to learn at the foot of a master. If they had any training at all it was from their father, but for most, they were simply given a razor with some brief instruction and sent on their way.

I fail to see why anything more is necessary today. Certainly we are not less capable than these earlier generations, and the information available here and on other sites greatly exceeds the information usually passed on from father to son in the past.

With respect to your new razor: Yes, it will probably need some additional honing. Any one of a number of stones will work fine in this regard, but the Norton 4000/8000 waterstone probably gives the best combination of quality, consistency and price. As far as honing itself, there are a number of sites on the internet explaining how this is done. The worked for me and they should work for you as well.

If you want to know what a truely sharp blade feels like, use a new DE blade as a reference. It is unlikely that any straight razor, no matter how expertly honed, will be sharper than this. But, in truth the only real test is to shave with the blade. If it is sharp enough, there will be no pulling.

Stropping is the same, the main issue is to not put pressure on the edge of the blade as this will tend to roll the edge. Other than that, the real skill, which will come with practice, learning how not to nick the strop.

If you have ever used a DE razor, you already know the importance of blade angle and stretching, if not, then once again there are plenty of materials on the internet on these issues.

My advise would be:

Buy a 4000/8000 Norton waterstone and use this to hone your razor until it feels about as sharp as a new DE blade.

After honing, strop using your leather strop 50 passes should be more than enough

Try a shave, start with your cheeks, pay attention to blade angle and stretching. If the blade pulls, it is not sharp enough, back to honing. If the blade feels smooth but does not cut, you are over honed (I have never had this happen, but I suppose it is possible). Go back to the hone. back hone a few strokes (back honing means to pass the blade across the hone in reverse - spine leading), then hone a few strokes to sharpen.

That's all there is to it as far as I am concerned. I honed my own razors from the start and managed a perfectly good shave (with a few small nicks) the first time. I'm not a genius, I'm just not intimidated by those who want to make this something more than it is.

I don't think anyone is trying to make this more than what it is, but to be honest, being brand new and shaving with an expertly honed razor is difficulty enough for most. Learning how to strop, shave, and hone all at once isn't impossible, but is it really preferable? Learning how to shave was so much easier for me after I got mine honed by a honemeister.

As for your hone, the 4k/8k Norton works. Depending on how your skin reacts, you may want some sort of finishing stone or a pasted strop to take it beyond 8k. I highly suggest getting your razor honed by a pro so that you know what to shoot for when you hone it yourself. It's not that you aren't capable of honing your razor, but to have a benchmark can be invaluable. SRP member Jimbo could likely point you in the right direction for some Australian honing resources.

Don't worry about your questions. We all asked them at some point, which is why searching can be handy. Let us know how everything goes!

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

Buy a 4000/8000 Norton waterstone and use this to hone your razor until it feels about as sharp as a new DE blade.

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With all due respect, and judging from my very limited personal experience, I would beg to differ. A finishing stone will increase the quality of the shave. In addition to a Norton 4k and 8k, I have a Belgian yellow (blue combo, very pretty, very expensive, yadda yadda), and an Escher (for which many thanks to gugi), and both do just that.

Maybe I am paranoid, but I think I am not. Your mileage may vary.

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

At the risk of offending some on the forum, I am going to have to jump in here and try and bring some sanity. Over the past several months, I have become increasingly concerned with tendency to make the use and care of straight razors some type of esoteric art. This is simply not the case and is my opinion counter productive to the stated goal of this forum, which is to encourage growth of straight razor shaving.

In truth, straight razor shaving, honing, stroping etc. are nothing more than skills that can be learned by anyone with average, or even below average manual dexterity.

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Very true, it just takes patience and practice.

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

Really, consider the fact that back in my father's day, almost everyone who did not want to go about with a full beard used a straight razor, including honing and stropping. For the most part they were average men, and they managed quite well without the needing to learn at the foot of a master. If they had any training at all it was from their father, but for most, they were simply given a razor with some brief instruction and sent on their way.

I fail to see why anything more is necessary today. Certainly we are not less capable than these earlier generations, and the information available here and on other sites greatly exceeds the information usually passed on from father to son in the past.

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Not quite so true. In the Ol'en days when every man shaved with a straight they all did learn at the feet of a master, their father's. That and if you wanted a razor sharpened you could just ks your barber and he would whip it off while you read the evening news.

Frankly I think a lot of men are far less mechanically capable today. Just look at the proliferation of the instant oil change place. The "average guy" today can't change his own oil.

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Originally Posted by fccexpert

If you want to know what a truely sharp blade feels like, use a new DE blade as a reference. It is unlikely that any straight razor, no matter how expertly honed, will be sharper than this. But, in truth the only real test is to shave with the blade. If it is sharp enough, there will be no pulling.

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Your right no honemeister ever gets a blade as sharp as a DE but a DE is a bad comparison. No DE shave I've ever had can match the feel of a real straight on your face (even when used in a shavette device). I want the OP to have that great experience with a expertly honed blade before he discovers the frustrations of trying to get steel finely edged enough to do the job. Once you have had a real straight shave, as you know, you will never want to substitute the lessor experiences again. THis really helps get through the times when you just aren't getting that blade to cooperate.

Excellent thread!

Thanks Guybrush, for asking the questions. I have learned a lot just by reading this thread. And I have already read everything in the Wiki as well as lurking on the site for a while now. I still haven't shaved with a straight yet, just anxiously waiting the arrival of a "demo" strop from Damon so I can strop the razor that was so generously PIF'd to me from "professorchaos" at B&B. Should be any day now. :)

Welcome to SRP and to Straight Razor shaving Guybrush.

It seems like you have the best of advice already but I would just like to say...... your username is BRILLIANT.:bow

Monkey Island rocks my world. :rock: :D