Hones, What's the Diff?

I was reading Lynn's Tipp's on Honing. What's the difference between a Norton 8k and a Coticule.
And Escher for that matter. Is all that really needed or necessary. I have a couple of Dovo's, a really nice russian strop and a set of Norton water hones, 8k 4k, 1k and 220. I normally strop prior to each shave, although I read it's not really necessary. I"ve read some guys get 6 or 7 shaves without stroping. I guess it depends on your beard for one, and personal preference.

Before I get far off base here, Are the Coticule and Escher for really anal shaver's. How far are you supposed to go. How many stones do I need? Of course I want my blades razor sharp. I don't mean to insult anyone but, If the Norton 8k is really a final polishing, why would I need anything else after that.
Any help would be appreciated.

Welcome. I can only say that the Norton 8K is plenty, but it took me years to learn how to hone well enough to discover it. Some guys buy different hones because the speed of them cutting is more in line with their skill/patience/temperment/technique, and then they think that is the best hone on the planet.

You'll get more comments although I don't think anyone will admit to being anal. Some guys will just talk about the quality of edge.

I'm sure that hones are all way different, but I find them all to be very similar but require way different number of passes to achieve the same quality, others will strongly disagree. You'll have to think about your responses, your budget, and a few other factors, when you consider what you'll purchase.

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Originally Posted by zib

Are the Coticule and Escher for really anal shaver's.

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I resemble that remark. :D Kidding aside and only speaking for myself. For me honing is sort of a passion. I have a lot of different hones as well as a hell of a lot of razors so that I have something to use the many rocks I have. It started out with my really loving razors and the hones were something I needed to keep them in shaving condition.

Before too long I found that I was more into the hones then the razors. The important thing is that I am enjoying it. As Lynn is always saying, "Have fun". As far as what you need, the Nortons are plenty IMHO but it wouldn't hurt to have a Shapton 16K or for a more reasonably priced alternative a Chinese 12K. Another just IMHO, your razor and your shave will benefit from your stropping before and after every shave.

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Originally Posted by zib

Are the Coticule and Escher for really anal shaver's.

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I have coticules and eschers, but I only shave my face!
:w

I don't know where you read that some guys go 6 or 7 shaves between stropping, but I believe most people strop before every shave. I think most would agree that gives you the best shaves.

Regarding the hones, you certainly can shave off of an 8K. Going to higher grits generally allows for finer polishing for sharper edges that most consider to be more comfortable. If you are happy with your edge of off the 8K, you can consider yourself done. The advantage of the coticule is its versatility. Used with a slurry, it's a fast cutter. Used with water, it's a polisher. Used dry, it's a finer polisher. The Escher also can be used with or without a slurry.

The lower grits really are the workhorses, while the higher grits are where the aficionados spend most of their money. You can take it as far as you want, and maybe, just maybe, you can stop at any time!

Don't get me wrong. I've researched this, I'm not making it up. I actually read that on the internet about the 6 or 7 shaves. it was on a Str8 site. Thankfully, we have the internet with all kinds of info at our fingertips. As I said, I strop prior to shaving.

I haven't had to hone my razor yet. Lynn took care of that for me when I bought them. I enjoy using the str8's. It's just that the more I read, I'm thinking I'm going to need a workshop for the amount of stones I'll need. I thought from what I read the 4/8k combo was good enough, I guess not, I guess I'll be buying more stuff.

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Originally Posted by zib

It's just that the more I read, I'm thinking I'm going to need a workshop for the amount of stones I'll need. I thought from what I read the 4/8k combo was good enough, I guess not, I guess I'll be buying more stuff.

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You can really do very well with the 4/8 combo, a finer polishing stone like a Shapton 16, Coticule or a Chinese 12K plus a pasted strop or flatbed hone.

Reading the honing section here, especially the advanced honing section, you need to bear in mind that a lot of the discussion only applies to a small portion of the straight razor using population. Guys who are either pro/semi-pro honemeisters or have taken on honing as sort of a separate activity from simply using a straight razor successfully. Believe me, you can get a fantastic shave even if you haven't invested in various vintage Coticules, Shapton 30k's, or worse yet, Eschers and Japanese naturals.

So, while you are no doubt correct that there is more "stuff" in your future it won't take too much more to get where you need to be for a great shave. The problem (and a lot of the fun) starts when the AD's get a hold of you........:w

I have maintained a Dubl Duck Wonderedge for about 30 years with a Moravian and a swaty stone purchased from American Hone Company - they are no longer in the hone business. These are barber hones
Until I joined this site i had never heard of most of the stones discussed on this forum.
I have never put any paste on a strop.
I have two strops and I usually go on the lenin about 20 strokes, then a sueded finnished stop and last a scotch shell for about 40 to sixty strokes.
I get great shaves, very little razor burn
About every four weeks I go on the swaty for about 4 to six strokes and about twice a years I use the
moravian on the rough side for about 4 strokes, then the smooth side for the same.
I also stop 12 to 20 times on the shell strop to dry the edge after shaving.
This system has worked for me. That is not to say it is for everyone.

I am planning on purchasing several hones just to see if I am missing anything and increase my knowledge.

Besides its fun.

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Originally Posted by zib

Before I get far off base here, Are the Coticule and Escher for really anal shaver's. How far are you supposed to go. ...
Any help would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I have coticules and eschers, but I only shave my face!
... You can take it as far as you want, and maybe, just maybe, you can stop at any time!

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:roflmaoUtopian, you made my day.:roflmao

Zib, yes, you can shave with an edge created on an 8K Norton.

Rest assured though, I would seriously doubt it would perform and feel like the razor did when you received it from Lynn.:w

No, you don't need to buy every single hone discussed on this forum-but you will soon discover-once you start honing- why "Anal Shaver's" are so fond of Escher's, Coticules and very fine grit Shapton's:roflmao

Seriously,:gl:

as alan said the hone doesn't matter all that much, the skill to use it does.

You know what "gugi" I think that's the smartest advice I've heard on this forum so far. I may buy a 12 or 16k, maybe a DMT. Will I benefit, I don't know. If I get a great shave off the Norton 8k, I'll be happy.

and maybe, just maybe, you can stop at any time![/quote]

So, what's that supposed to mean, Is that humor from the midwest?

Well it's been suggested that a few people in this forum have a problem with buying too many hones! I don't know any of them myself, but I suppose it might be true.:D

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Well it's been suggested that a few people in this forum have a problem with buying too many hones! I don't know any of them myself, but I suppose it might be true.:D

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I may wind up being one of them.

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Originally Posted by Bill S

You can really do very well with the 4/8 combo, a finer polishing stone like a Shapton 16, Coticule or a Chinese 12K plus a pasted strop or flatbed hone.

Reading the honing section here, especially the advanced honing section, you need to bear in mind that a lot of the discussion only applies to a small portion of the straight razor using population. Guys who are either pro/semi-pro honemeisters or have taken on honing as sort of a separate activity from simply using a straight razor successfully. Believe me, you can get a fantastic shave even if you haven't invested in various vintage Coticules, Shapton 30k's, or worse yet, Eschers and Japanese naturals.

So, while you are no doubt correct that there is more "stuff" in your future it won't take too much more to get where you need to be for a great shave. The problem (and a lot of the fun) starts when the AD's get a hold of you........:w

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What's the "AD's"?

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Originally Posted by Utopian

Well it's been suggested that a few people in this forum have a problem with buying too many hones! I don't know any of them myself, but I suppose it might be true.:D

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Some society dame of many years ago said,"You can't be too thin or too rich". I would add or have too many hones. :cool:

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Originally Posted by zib

What's the "AD's"?

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Acquisition disorder. RAD= razor acquisition disorder, HAD = hones etc. A hazard of this hobby for some of us. :shrug:

The Escher and the Coticule are natural hones that have been used in Europe for centuries.

Nortons are quite a modern synthetically manufactured hones. They are readily available in the Americas and have recently become a popular choice for honing razors, although price and availability make them less of an attractive proposition if you live outside of the Americas.

So no it isn't anal, folk use what they can get hold of easily, locally.

Now buying and trying them all to find which one may be best is anal.

I'm guilty of trying one or two. It's a hobby. A bit like trying different beers and chasing women.

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Originally Posted by English

The Escher and the Coticule are natural hones that have been used in Europe for centuries.

Nortons are quite a modern synthetically manufactured hones. They are readily available in the Americas and have recently become a popular choice for honing razors, although price and availability make them less of an attractive proposition if you live outside of the Americas.

So no it isn't anal, folk use what they can get hold of easily, locally.

Now buying and trying them all to find which one may be best is anal.

I'm guilty of trying one or two. It's a hobby. A bit like trying different beers and chasing women.

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Ahhh, Now I understand.

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Originally Posted by zib

I was reading Lynn's Tipp's on Honing. What's the difference between a Norton 8k and a Coticule.

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Here is some information about the Norton 8k
Here is some information about Coticules

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Originally Posted by zib

And Escher for that matter.

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Escher Water Hone - Thuringian Sharpening Stone

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Originally Posted by zib

Is all that really needed or necessary.

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No, there are many different methods you can use to sharpen your straight razors.

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Originally Posted by zib

I have a couple of Dovo's, a really nice russian strop and a set of Norton water hones, 8k 4k, 1k and 220. I normally strop prior to each shave, although I read it's not really necessary. I"ve read some guys get 6 or 7 shaves without stroping. I guess it depends on your beard for one, and personal preference.

Before I get far off base here, Are the Coticule and Escher for really anal shaver's.

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They are for anyone

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Originally Posted by zib

How far are you supposed to go.

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Until you like the result. The Coticule and the Escher give many straight razor shavers a satisfactory result.

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Originally Posted by zib

How many stones do I need?

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You don't need any, really. You can send your razor out periodically for sharpening, damage repair, touchups, or whatever. If you want to sharpen your razors yourself, the number of stones you need depends on how involved you want to be when the razor needs attention. If you only have one razor and only want to touch it up when it just starts to dull, and if you never damage your razor, you will only need one hone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zib

Of course I want my blades razor sharp. I don't mean to insult anyone but, If the Norton 8k is really a final polishing, why would I need anything else after that.
Any help would be appreciated.

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You may not need anything else after that. Hone until you like the result. And be aware (as you are by now) that no hone substitutes for lack of skill. It will take practice to get it right.

Good luck!

And I thought my wife was the only one that thought I was anal about shaving!

While I can shave off of an 8K Norton (after using some CrO paste) I normally use at least a yellow coticule to get a slightly more comfortable shave. But then there are the days that I am feeling particularly anal and I may use an Thuringen followed by a Japanese Nakiyama.

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Originally Posted by d. m. ellington

I am planning on purchasing several hones just to see if I am missing anything and increase my knowledge.

Besides its fun.

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I for one think it's absolutely wonderful to have another extremely experienced and therefore wise straight razor shaver; three decades of experience? I love it!

I sir, will be dying to hear how you report your experiences with a finishing stone of any kind in comparison with your barber hones that you're clearly adept at using.

If you pay shipping both ways, I'd be more than happy to loan you a Chinese 12000 grit stone and a Belgian Coticule to try for a month.

In case I get slammed with PMs from others asking for this offer, I'm extending D.M. this offer because of his mastery of the barber hone with decades of exclusive use, the fact that he's not used other types of hones/stones and ultimately because I'd love to have HIS opinion on what he thinks finishing stones like I mentioned do in relation to his time tested honing methods.

Chris L

Thank you so much for the offer. I have it on good authority that Santa Claus has a Chinese 1200 and a Shapton 1600 in his sled with my name on it.

I owe a lot to the old barbers I met years ago and they were fine men, willing to share their knowledge.

I have learned so much since joining this group. It has opened up a whole new world for me.

The people I have corresponded with have been great and I am all for trying new methods.

I don't know that I have that much knowledge, I was just following instructions from old wiser experts.
Wish I had listened to more old wiser men in my youth, it would have smoothed out a lot of crooked road.

Again thanks for the offer.

You guys are great! !

dewayne

No problem, Dewayne. I'm still excited to hear from you in regard to how you think the finer grit stones relate in comparison to your long used barber hone. Keep us posted!

Chris L

This is not a threadjack, but to add to the discussion of different hones. I have finally gotten a razor to what I believe is the equivalent sharpness of the two razors I bought from Lynn. Needless to say, I was ecstatic. So hopefully it's all good from here on out. (yeah, right) I used Norton 1K, 4K, 8K, and the Chinese 12K with slurry. I did not use paste. I recently dropped my Norton 4/8 on the concrete and broke it. I cut it up and made several small hones with it. Then ordered A yellow and blue coticule from Ardennes. So I guess, as you buy and experiment with hones and shaving, you'll really want to see what it's like to use other stones. Then, you'll feel more comfortable, and you'll know a little more about honing.