Just can't get the hang of it.

Hi guys,

I have a problem and wander if you can offer some advice (constructive :)

I have a Stainless steel 5/8 Dovo Inox that was properly honed by a pro. A Tony Miller Latigo strop, pasted strops with red dovo, black dovo and CRo. I have a yellow coticle, and a blue and some diamond pastes on glass sheets and newspaper. I have some great soaps, brushes and creams etc.

I really enjoy my shaving with the DE and get great results and have tried shaving with a straight for nearly a year. I can get my razor to cut the bristles, but its still not silky smooth and I always end up with some irritation particularly if I try to go against the grain. I cannot tell you how long I spend trying to hone the razor to a smooth finish, or how long I spend reading this and Badger Blade forums.

Is is possible to get a BBS shave that is the same as I get from my DE with minimal irritation.

Secondly, do you think a different razor is the answer.

I am sure others have found themselves in the same predicament, how did you deal with it. Was there a time when you held up your hands in defeat and said "enough is enough" or how did you overcome it.

I am nearly at the defeat stage and need some inspiration.................... this is like a driving test that I just can't pass.

regards

sorry to hear your not having a good experience with your straight i would send the razor to lynn to have it honed just to take that out of the equation then i would consider the angle and pressure i am using i am new to this myself and have had a wonderful experience the main thing that helped me was taking my time and a lot of practice you might want to buy lynns dvd i have heard wonderful things about it at the time i did not have money for the dvd but i did watch lynn shave on a video he has on google if you want to get better dont give up im sure there will be a lot of posts on this thread to help you out :gl:

Dave12345,

I would actually suggest putting out the feelers to see if there is someone close by who can watch you shave and give you a hands on clinic. If you're in Atlanta, I will be happy to help. If not, you can use the map to find someone close by:

http://straightrazorpalace.com/vbgooglemapme.php

Sometimes, it just takes someone to show you what's going on. Being a DE shaver, you are likely to have plenty of experience on playing with angle and making lather etc. I am sure it is a little technique issue somewhere... Good luck!


-Rob

First and foremost-Don't Give Up! Honing a razor is an art-not a science. We could never be able to give a honing "recipe" that will work for all razors-plus honing takes practice-ALOT of practice.

I would strongly suggest that you get a pre-honed razor, by a known "honemeister" that you can use as a "Standard" to compare you honing efforts to.

Things like magnification-to observe the edge as you hone can be a great help. Every razor is different and its these very slight differences that can make or break getting a good,comfortable shave.

Personally, I prefer a Carbon Steel razor-stainless can be problematic to hone-especially for novices. That said, your technique could still be an issue as well. I cannot go against the grain in certain areas of my face-even with a SCARY SHARP blade.

It sounds like you have a good foundation, the Tony Miller strop is ESSENTIAL. Diamond pastes can be a wonderful tool-but can also create VERY irritating edges.

To answer your question-YES, you can and should be able to get the best BBS shave with a Str8 that will rival your DE. Don't give up-honing isn't an easy skill- and a razor that isn't READY won't give you a good shave.

Hey there Dave,
I think everyone who shaves with a straight at some point in time said, “bugger this, I’m going to buy a Gillette Mach 3” – I know I have.

A couple of years ago I went to Rome. I found this little back street barber shop and had my first ‘proper’ shave. It was great: really smooth with minimal irritation. I decided that shaving with a straight was for me and bought one on the spot. The next day in my hotel room: “Oww, holly . . . Oww”. I’m sure the majority of people walking past thought I was being tortured (or having a really good time, depending on how you interpret screaming). I tried this for a couple of days and hated every second of it, so I gave up.

The last day of the holiday comes around, my friend decided to go and get a shave at the barbers. I went and told the barber about my experience. Nice old guy sat me down and spent a couple of hours showing me how to actually use the razor. Turned out I had been holding it like a meat cleaver, hence my face looking like a side of raw bacon.

I agree with the previous poster. You can read all the books on shaving, etc; however, it doesn’t compare to actually being shown by someone who can use a straight well. You can’t see the faults that you are probably making; they will be a habit by now.

Forget fancy razors, creams, balms – it’s not about what you use, it’s how you use it.

My advice: don’t give up! I nearly gave up after a couple of days, but then I wouldn’t have found something that I love to do. Shaving takes my mind off my problems – it’s that little bit of me time in an otherwise hectic day. Find someone who can help you, don’t give up on something that you obviously want to succeed at.

Happy Shaving,

Paddington. :gl:

I agree with the advice you've gotten so far. I would add that for some of us, it simply takes a long time to get really good shaves with a straight. That can be a year or more of consistent practice. I don't mean that we can't get great shaves and enjoy the shaving, but to "master" straight shaving the way you might master a DE in a few weeks, isn't going to happen.

I've been using straights for about 2.5 years and while I can get excellent shaves, I'm still learning. If your standard for a good shave is what you can do with a DE, you're going to get irritation from the straight. Try going for a comfy shave and let the closeness come on its own. I think of it the same as they tell boxers: work the jab, the knockout will follow....:gl:

Jordan

Thanks for the good advice gents. I think I might look for a antique, carbon, shave ready razor. I cannot tell you how much I enjoy the whole straight razor experience, especially when you add the strop, brush, mirrors etc but its so damn frustrating. I have two small shaving scars on my face that have healed but have still left two dents in my face, I see them every day and am determined to reach the stage where the straight is my daily shaver, its becoming a bit of a pilgrimage :rofl2:

+1 with the above advice. If you can find someone in your area that knows what they are doing who is willing to show you one on one that would make all the difference in the world. I was lucky that forum member The Topher filled that bill for me. He not only showed me honing and shaving techniques but lather as well. I had a couple of years of shaving with DEs under my belt but wasn't using the lather to the full potential.

As Lt.Arclight said a good carbon steel razor is more easily honed as well. One of the old Solingens especially. The current TI and Dovo can be tough in my experience. Until you get a truly sharp razor it is hard to practice good technique. Blade angle and manipulating the razor smoothly and correctly takes practice. Keep on keeping on, it is worth it once you get there.

I know a guy who struggled for months with a Dovo Micarta SS razor. I honed it three times for him and he was never able to get a decent shave. We ended up having him try an old Genco razor with very flat scales and within a couple days, he was getting the best shaves ever. The problem was that the round handle of the Micarta was simply not comfortable for him and for some reason the flatter Genco scales were. This really made me realize what an individual sport this art is. We had another member who was ready to give up and he came to the NC get together and we were able to watch what he was doing. When he left, he was able to shave with his straight razor.

It really would be great for you to be able to spend some time with a member close by who would be willing to help you. We really have a great support group in the members here as you have already noticed.

Let us know how it goes and I'll be happy to re-hone your razor if needed on me.

:gl:

Lynn

5 years shving with straights, then happened on SRP and now still learning new things. I think you are right in trying a good carbon blade first, stainless as a starter , I believe is not a good idea, ts hard enuf for a newbie to learn honing on a carbon steel blade , if honing anything is completely new to them.

The first straight I bought was the one you own. I had a heck of a time until I tried another razor. I have worked with around a dozen or so and have found after about 7 months that that particular blade is very very good, however it takes a completely different technique to use it compared to the other vintage blades I also own. It really isn't that the blade can't get sharp enough, it does. I am convinced that the blade has a certain flexibility to the edge combined with my particular tough whiskers makes it difficult to get a good shave unless I pay particular attention to how I approach the angle and the right amount of light pressure. Strange thing to say but I highly recommend using an older wedge or perhaps get your hands on a wapi because until you have enough experience with a straight the hurdles with this blade will make your experience miserable.

Good luck,

Sean

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Paddington

[SIZE="3"]Hey there Dave,
I think everyone who shaves with a straight at some point in time said, “bugger this, I’m going to buy a Gillette Mach 3” – I know I have.

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+1

I shaved for years with a shavette, finally tried a real straight without anyone to teach me anything, and then gave up after a couple of months, saying 'this is crap'

I found it a couple of years later, and decided that this time I was going to succeed.
My first shave (no stropping, canned soap and bad technique) was fun because I enjoyed doing it, but a disaster vis-a-vis the effect on my face. I am pretty sure that my neighbors heard me scream when I splashed on the aftershave. :D

Then I decided to search the net, and after half a day I found SRP.
I asked a lot of newbie questions, had to learn the most basic things, and discovered that pretty much EVERYTHING I did was wrong: angle, lather, technique, stropping, ...

It took me about 6 months to get to the point where a shave was enjoyable. I changed 1 thing at a time, and tried it a couple of times to see if it was an improvement or not.

I have taught several people how to shave in person, and if you can, try to find an SRP member in your general area to show you how to shave in person. That will save you months of trial and error.

I know from experience that at this moment, you are probably wondering if straight razors can really shave you as good as something else. From my persoanl experience, I can guarantee you it can.

Hey, It sound's like your getting some great advice. I'm in to my second week of straight razor shaving & I'v had great results even on the first shave. My newbie advice that worked for me is slow down, let the blade do the work. The most important thing I'm always a ware of is my angel of the blade.
Don't give up, educating your self will save you-!!!!

I had problems with THREE brand new Dovo stainless razors. Thay all had warped baldes as shown in post #51 of this thread.

I eventually was able to purchase a Dovo stainless that was not warped (I bought it off Ebay, it was manufactured back in 2001) and it shaves great.

The fact that I had three different Dovos (2 were the pearlex, one was the ebony handled one) with exactly the same curvature, on exactly the same side makes me quite concerned about recently manufactured Dovos.

Check to see if your blade is perhaps warped like this?

I have given a severalf shave demos to individuals as well as small groups. I'll show them different styles and sizes of blades everything from W&B choppers, smileys, wedges and hollows, I will talk them thru the various aspects of the razors as well as shaving itself, blade prep, shave prep, how to stretch, angles and how to break the countours of the face into smaller planes. Then out of the razors I have brought(20-30) I will have them pick one out of the bunch and that is the one I will use for the actual demo. I will show them stropping, beard prep, lathering, stretching, angles and strokes and then when Im done I will let them choose a razor to use and talk them thru it. To get to the point, having someone to show you makes all the difference in the world!

I’ve found the process of shaving with a straight to require a feel and tactile understanding of what you’re attempting to do. Shaving with a modern razor involves whipping the thing over your face any which way you like but with a straight, time spent getting a real feel for the different directions the hair grows on the different areas of your face is time well invested. Also, when you begin, start very slowly with the grain and keep an angle of around 30 degrees on the blade to face – just think about the angle they put all those blades at in a modern razor. Pick a time when you have nothing pressing to do, shut the door on your bathroom (or wherever you shave) and after softening your whiskers in your desired manner, lather up with some well whipped soap and begin shaving while thinking about each and every stroke – move the razor in light but sure strokes. You need to hold the blade sturdily but stroke it against your skin lightly, and slowly don’t be afraid of repeating a stroke straight after your initial stroke of you think it’s not close enough – listen to the scratching sound of all those hairs severing under the blade. You won’t get a BBS shave with the grain although you will get closer with time and practise which is absolutely essential to mastering this. When it comes to against the grain shaving start off safe – stick to broad flat areas like your cheeks and the underside of your jaw as you get better. The most valuable thing to remember is STRETCH YOUR SKIN – it makes your hairs sit more rigid and essentially forces them to offer themselves up to the blade, of course doing so provides smoother surfaces for your blade even if you’re not quite at wrinkle age yet you’ll still be surprised how much closer you’ll get.

Most importantly though stick with it. As time goes on you will irritate your skin less, you will shave closer, you’ll knick yourself less if you remember not to take the process for granted - never forget that you’re holding a blade in your hand that has the potential to cut you faster, deeper and easier than any other blade you’re ever likely to own (unless you’re a samurai) so respect it as such. Simply enjoy the learning curve – the fact that you can’t just do it when you’ve never picked up a straight before is at the core of why people get hooked to the point of joining internet forums ;)

P.S. A nice aftershave soothing balm is not a bad investment for those rougher than usual days ;)

:tuA big thank you to everyone for their excellent advice. I am going to try and find a new razor, a carbon from days gone by with a professionally honed edge. After that I will persevere until I crack this.

Keep up the good work guys, I have met such nice people on this forum, it is refreshing when the news around us nowadays is full of such doom and gloom.


regards
London

I'm even newer to this than you so by all means value my advice accordingly but I wondered whether you've considered going to a reputable barber for a shaving consultation/lesson? It's by no means a cheap option but I know that Trumper's in London do it and I'm sure if you shopped/googled around you might find other barbers offering the same service, or just willing to show you the ropes for the cost of a shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guildofghostwriters

I'm even newer to this than you so by all means value my advice accordingly but I wondered whether you've considered going to a reputable barber for a shaving consultation/lesson? It's by no means a cheap option but I know that Trumper's in London do it and I'm sure if you shopped/googled around you might find other barbers offering the same service, or just willing to show you the ropes for the cost of a shave.

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Great idea, but unfortunately from all of the recently posted trips to a local barber, the experiences have been pretty lousey. Due to health concerns they pretty much universally use Shavettes, not real straights for the shave, so it essentially a hopped up DE shave at best.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seraphim

Great idea, but unfortunately from all of the recently posted trips to a local barber, the experiences have been pretty lousey. Due to health concerns they pretty much universally use Shavettes, not real straights for the shave, so it essentially a hopped up DE shave at best.

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Obviously you know whereof you speak (and I don't because nobody near me offers shaving schools and I bet most shaves are with a shavette as you say) but I would hope that Trumper's at least is an exception and there will be others. According to the Trumper's website,

Quote:

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A session of one to one tuition with one of our barbers, lasting approximately one and a half hours and covering all aspects of the technique of wet shaving with an open razor.

Designed to enable clients of all ages to get the best from their shaving, the instruction period will include the selection and use of the most suitable products and help with special shaving needs.

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It costs £75 so it's not at all cheap. Can a Shavette be reasonably described as an open razor? I reckon even if they use a Shavette, they'd probably be okay with you taking your own blade down there for the lesson - the customer is always right after all!

May be you should try another razor.

May be do not go against the grain, try a little angle.

May be it is not the right soup/cream for you skin.
In my experience, right shaving cream can make a huge difference. I have a highly regarded one from Castle Forbes which smells like haven and lathers like it too, but using it even with 1-2 passes I usually get irritation. I found that the best shaving cream ever, for my face, is Kiehl's cream for the brush, it does not smell that good, lathering is also leaves much to be desired, but when I use it, I can 'scrape' my face with as many passes as needed, and even without any aftershave I get no irritation whatsoever.

Experimentation & patience are you friends.

Dave 12345.
Hang in there
There are a few things in life that are worth persisting with. For me Str8 shaving is one of them. I gave up several times in the last 26 years but I always came back & now I wouldn't bother with any other style of shaving. I strongly agree with the advice to get some one on one help. It will make the learning curve way less steep.

BTW speaking of driver's tests I failed mine 5X. but later became a mechanic & test drove exotics from Astons to Panteras. Never bent one . :D

Hi

I wouldnt pay 75 for a shave and consultation, I think some people are jumping on the band waggon, remember the economy is going down not up !!

I will pay 30, I think thats ok for sitting in a chair for 20 mins and having a chat :)

I spoke to Trufitt and Hill and they will shave you with your own straight if you pre arrange it. I always get a great service from them, so will give it a go.

Regards
London

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave12345

Hi

I wouldnt pay 75 for a shave and consultation, I think some people are jumping on the band waggon, remember the economy is going down not up !!

I will pay 30, I think thats ok for sitting in a chair for 20 mins and having a chat :)

I spoke to Trufitt and Hill and they will shave you with your own straight if you pre arrange it. I always get a great service from them, so will give it a go.

Regards
London

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I agree that £75 is very steep and I can't afford but Trumper's have been around for more than a hundred years so they've sat on the bandwagon while it's disappeared and been rebuilt beneath them rather than jumped on it. Also, the nearest barber to me charges £25 just for a straight shave which I guess takes no more than 30 mins so in some ways £75 for 90 mins of a top barber's time isn't terrible vfm but it's still a lot to lay out in one go. Trumper's soap, scent and skinfood are top notch and worth the high prices - there's an episode of Poirot where everyone is astonished because Poirot has paid Trumper five guineas for a bottle of scent - but that's not to say their barber consultations are worth £75.