Stropping question/issue...

So I am very impatient, and today I was trying to start stropping my first razor! This way its ready for when I shave. I watched the videos and everything and I'm doing it like they say. When i pass the razor on my arm it takes the hairs out with ease. But when I try to do the HHT the hair doesnt split but just passing it over the blade. I have to grab it with both hands and pull down a little bit. I dont have to pull hard at all. Only thing I noticed is that I was able to take 1 piece of hair and slide it all the way down the razor and it didnt cut it...but it slices the **** out of my arm hair. So i wonder if its messed up because I stropped incorrectly? i did 10 laps on linen and 25 laps on leather.

Was the razor "shave ready" before you started stropping? And then there is the thing about the HHT not being deterministic. It seems that the HHT test passes most easily on an "aggressive" edge -- one that might still cause irritation or not be that comfortable to shave with. I think if you get the edge even smoother the HHT is likely not to pass as easily or not at all. Assuming the razor was shave ready to begin with, carefully strop it and try shaving with it. Also, 25 laps on a strop would probably be the bare minimum between shaves.

There is only one true test of the razor, putting it to your whiskers on your face. I wouldn't get hung up over the HHT. If it shave ready, shave with it...:D

for a razor to pass the hht the edge has to be a little rough to grab the hair the only real test is the shave test you could probally skip the linen also it is really only needed to bring back an edge i would do at least 50 laps on the leather and no more than 75 also make sure the spine and the blade are touching the strop at the same time so you dont roll your edge and of course use no to very little pressure :gl:

you might want to check out the wiki on stropping also

Yes my razor was shave ready, done by Lynn Abram. I guess I'm going to just go ahead and shave, because after I saw it slice the hair on my arm I was slightly convinced that it was fine to shave. So I guess I'll do 50 laps on the leather strap.

Too late now, but it is suggested that you shave before stropping on a Lyn honed razor. Reason being that he already stropped it and wants you to know how it felt when it was perfect out of his hands. But life goes on, you’d need to strop it for sure for the second shave. HHT means nothing, shave with that puppy. If your blade is plowing up effortless piles of hair on your arm, it’s pretty close no matter what. Look at 50 up/down full laps on the strop before each shave. Be careful not to lift the spine as you stroke, that is where “rolling the edge” happens. This can kill a perfect blade, at least until re-honing or many, many. many stropping laps.

I was going to suggest more, or more better, stropping. HHT, take it or leave it. I know some of the guys here don't count on it, but I find that the HHT is, in addition to the thumb pad test, a great indicator that your razor is properly stropped.

You didn't mention if you had actually tried to shave with the razor. I'll admit that if the razor shaves to your satisfaction, regardless of HHT, then you are good to go. What I don't get is, if a razor is truly keen, why wouldn't it pass the HHT? All of mine do and the edges are definitely not rough.

Makes me wonder if those who say that their razors are good shavers, but don't pass the HHT are actually settling. I don't know. I've never used their razors, and I've never shaved with a razor that didn't pass HHT (and not just pass, but pass acording to my standards).


Scott

Watch how you hold the hair. If I recall its 1/2 from the root. I have thin hair so I'll raid my kids or wife's brush to confirm.
To me the HHT keeps me in check vs. the razor. If I have a not great shave but pop the HHT in (3) places, then it was my technique.
Newbie here so YMMV... Love that ping sound!

Boyd

This is perhaps going to sound crazy, but I also think that the one reason for the disagreements regarding the HHT depends somewhat on one's hair -- in particular, on its thickness (and perhaps other factors).

At a recent gathering, we noticed that my hair (which is medium thin in its thickness) didn't work very well compared to other folks' hair at the HHT (on the same spot on the same razor).

Perhaps this is why different folks have different results with the HHT. Arm hair is also different than head hair, and may explain your different results.

Just a thought,

cass

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Originally Posted by cassady

This is perhaps going to sound crazy, but I also think that the one reason for the disagreements regarding the HHT depends somewhat on one's hair -- in particular, on its thickness (and perhaps other factors).

At a recent gathering, we noticed that my hair (which is medium thin in its thickness) didn't work very well compared to other folks' hair at the HHT (on the same spot on the same razor).

Perhaps this is why different folks have different results with the HHT. Arm hair is also different than head hair, and may explain your different results.

Just a thought,

cass

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Possibly. But I've noticed that during the process of stropping, my razors edge goes through different stages. Initially the hair will glide over the edge without being cut. Then more stropping. The edge will aggressively grab at the hair and pop the hair off. More stropping. The edge will gently grab at the hair and slice the hair up the middle. More stropping. The edge will ever so slightly grab the hair and the hair falls in two. At that point I'm usually done and can be assured of a good shave. The thumb pad test at this point usually reveals a very "sticky" edge.

But, often I will try the same with my wife's much finer hair (blondish red - finer than mine). If the edge will cut her fine hair I'm very satisfied. If not, again more stropping (usually this "more stropping" involves alternating between the canvas and the leather side of the strop). Usually I'll find one of her finest blondish, almost invisible hairs, and continue the process until that hair can be cut while hanging. Not a "popping off", but falling away. Once again, a good shave and "sticky" TPT.

Now it might sound as though I spend all day going through this procedure, but generally it takes no more than 10 minutes, if even that long, at most.

I contend that a hair's a hair and that if a razor is keen enough it will cut a hanging hair regardless of hair type. I'd love to be proved wrong (in other words I love a good challenge).


Scott

BTW - "good shave" = one pass, WTG, BBS shave.

The hanging hair test has never been a reliable method, for me, indicating that a razor is ready to shave. As with most guys who hone razors, we do shave test them to make sure they are right before they leave us. My problem with so much discussion on the hanging hair test, the thumb pad test and the thumb nail test is that new people make up their minds about the shave before they shave based on these tests. The biggest problem we have seen with the newer folks is that they need to obtain a proper angle on the razor for shaving along with good beard prep and stropping techniques. Most rather than just try a section of the face at a time until they really learn the proper technique, take on the whole face and many times have an uncomfortable result.

We have only one goal here and that is for people to learn this sport and enjoy it for the rest of their lives the same as we do.

Have fun,

Lynn

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Originally Posted by honedright

I'd love to be proved wrong (in other words I love a good challenge).

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pm sent :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cassady

This is perhaps going to sound crazy, but I also think that the one reason for the disagreements regarding the HHT depends somewhat on one's hair -- in particular, on its thickness (and perhaps other factors).

At a recent gathering, we noticed that my hair (which is medium thin in its thickness) didn't work very well compared to other folks' hair at the HHT (on the same spot on the same razor).

Perhaps this is why different folks have different results with the HHT. Arm hair is also different than head hair, and may explain your different results.

Just a thought,

cass

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Yep, I remember that. I have two labs that shed like crazy no matter how much I brush them so just for kicks and grins I use their fur. Actually I use the fur I brush off the Chocolate Lab, it's hard to see the fur off the Yellow Lab. I pick out the thicker 'hairs' and use them for a test/play. Like all here are saying, the true test is in the actual shave. I just get a kick out of the expressions CarrieM and JrJoeD make when the hairs just POP. Even if the straight is popping hairs, once in a while it goes back to the hone because it is a little course shaving. Just use the HHT as a game and let the actual shave be your measure. It you need to see if it is sharp enough shave a few hairs on your arm. That's a slightly better test before you go to your face if you don't like the TPT.

I am going to weigh in on this also:

First, if you send your razor out to be honed, don't do tests before you shave with it, the shave is the test....

Tests are for people to use while they hone a razor, they don't mean a thing to anyone else...

In other words TNT: hey it's "my" thumbnail and I use the same one, the same way, every time, so I know the bevel is correct....

TPT: I do it the same way, on "my" thumb, every time, to make sure the razor is ready to go on to the next stage of honing...

The Armhair test: That's why I have no hair on "my" left arm, I just finished honing 10 razors, and every one of them cut "my" armhair "my" way...

The HHT: Yeah I did it just to make "myself" smile, and I used my wife's superfine hair because it's the hardest to cut... doesn't mean anything to anyone else, it just makes me happy to see the hair silently fall away..

After all that, we test shave, the edge, and then re-strop the edge for you.... After that first shave, then check out the edge so you can get a benchmark for your own future honing endevors....

So.............

I was thinkin'......................:hmmm:

And I thunk I would try something to see what might effect the Hanging Hair Test. I thought I would try the HHT with some razors I just restored and had set up to test shave with and then I would put oil on them and wipe it off and try the HHT again to see if the oil had any impact. Sounded logical...........:tu

So I pulled a hair from the ol' noggin and commenced...........

Not a damn one of those razors passed the HHT............:td

So.............

I did a little test shave with each of them and am delighted to say that my face is sooooooo smooooooth that the light in the room is reflecting off it. This was a pretty good mix of razors too, including a DD, couple Bokers, Kinfolks, Christensen and a nice JA Henckels along with a Dovo SS and Dovo Carbon.

So.............

For me, I will continue to NOT rely on the HHT. I wish it was not promoted so much that a new person judges a razor by it before even shaving.

Have fun guys,

Lynn

Im still learning but Im finding that the better I do with my stroping the better my shave. I just use the leather strop and do 20 st.rokes. I try to make them 20 good strokes. My test is my shave nice smooth and I did good rough and grabby I need to try bettter tomorrow

As a very raw nube I'll weigh in on the HHT. I spent several months learning to hone my various razors and the shaves were always a little on the rough side during this process. Once I got to the point where my blades would pass the HHT (with my hair which is super fine) I knew that my honing was at least on the right track. The shaves improved tremendously, as did my confidence in the whole process of straight razor shaving.
The HHT is the closest thing to an objective test standard that I could find, and it did show me that I was finally on the way to properly honed blades. Having said that, I agree that what really matters in the end is the shave, which is the object of the excersize.

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Originally Posted by Scububbs

As a very raw nube I'll weigh in on the HHT. I spent several months learning to hone my various razors and the shaves were always a little on the rough side during this process. Once I got to the point where my blades would pass the HHT (with my hair which is super fine) I knew that my honing was at least on the right track. The shaves improved tremendously, as did my confidence in the whole process of straight razor shaving.

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The point is that you would have gotten the same information if you had skipped the HHT. Your shaves would have improved as they did and given you the same information. The problem with the HHT test is that passing it only means that the edge is sharp in some fashion. It could be saw toothed and sharp or a number of other "sharp" conditions which would give a terrible shave. On the other hand, you can completely fail the HHT and get the very best shave.

I believe this: if a razor passes the HHT, but gives a crappy shave....well the purpose of honing and stropping a razor is NOT to pass tests (I'm preaching to the choir) but of course to give outstanding shaves. And if you are getting good shaves without going through these "tests" then groovy man.

BUT, what if you are not so lucky, and you are honing and stropping, and honing and stropping, then shaving and the shave sucks. And then you hone and strop, and hone and strop some more... shave sucks....(and maybe somewhere down the line, finally you get a good shave, but why? What happened different? At what point did things change? Is this scenario familiar?)

Isn't it nice to have a few indicator tests in your pocket that could tell you why your honing and stropping results in a sucky shave? Or a good shave?

I dunno, I always thought so.

Just my opinion. (hey, it's all good :rock:)


Scott

let me clear myself lol I did not strop the razor before shaving with it for the first time. I READ THE DIRECTIONS!!! lol
and it gave me a GREAT SHAVE!

Yes, I think it would have value to tell you when something changed. (could be from passing to failing on your way to a good shave). I think people are saying the problem is that it is misused and misunderstood. Especially newbies, tend to take it as a pass=good, fail=bad. Black and white and deterministic. The regret is over the countless post of "I don't understand what's wrong because it passes the HHT but I still get a lousy shave".

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Originally Posted by Quick

Yes, I think it would have value to tell you when something changed. (could be from passing to failing on your way to a good shave). I think people are saying the problem is that it is misused and misunderstood. Especially newbies, tend to take it as a pass=good, fail=bad. Black and white and deterministic. The regret is over the countless post of "I don't understand what's wrong because it passes the HHT but I still get a lousy shave".

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Some truth in that.
I find the HHT is passed because the shave test is passed but not vice versa.

Just for fun. Has anybody tried the HHT straight after a successful shave test ?

Well after it popping the hairs on my arm I went ahead and shaved today for the second time,. I only did wtg and xtg and it went fine. My beard is sensitive so I can't go ATg unless my hair has grown for a week. But the shave is awesome. I stropped it 50 laps and 50 again after I shaved. I tested with my arm hair and it just sliced them like air.