Thoughts on Honing and Restoration Services

When I see threads like this one: http://straightrazorpalace.com/newbi...rst-shave.html

it finally prompted me to write some thoughts down...

As a Restorer and Honemiester we actually take on a huge responsibility by offering our services, especially to the newbies on the forum.... It is up to us to try and make sure that your first experience with a straight razor is as good as we can possibly make it...
I know that I speak at least for all the reputable guys that offer these services, the last thing in the world we would ever want to happen is that you get a bad shave from one of our razors... As far as I know everyone of us test shaves every blade we put out there, albeit we do so with an experienced and confident hand, but we know that the razor shaves as good as it possibly can, for us, before we send it back to you... It is impossible for any of us to do more than that, since we are not there with you helping out as you do your prep, lather, and shaving strokes....
I don't think there is one of us that doesn't stand behind their services, fully...
Just keep this in mind, all it takes is a PM to any of us, and we are there to help, I think all of us are more concerned with you loving your new straight razor, than the money we might have made doing the work for you...

Just some rambling thoughts... with no offense meant to anyone!!

6gun,

I'm not sure if I understand the chronology of j03's sad events. He says he had the razor honed by a knife guy and then he says he had the razor honed by a honemeister and then he says he brought it to a knife guy to sharpen and wondered if that may have had anything to do with the sad/bad performance of his razor. It sounds to me that after the first bad experience shaving he brought it back to the "knife guy" for an edge upgrade.

I hope j03 becomes a good student of process and will learn both how to shave with a straight razor and how to touch up a blade once he becomes dissatisfied with its performance.

In the meanwhile, I suspect there are none here who doubt that those who repair, restore, and sharpen razors for others are not doing the best work possible for their customers.

Well, OK, there may be a few doubters, but they will probably always be among that number which blames others for their own faults and misadventures.:shrug:

On a lighter note: I got a really good shave this morning with a blade that I honed. Does this mean I have no one to blame but myself? :y

On a lighter note: I got a really good shave this morning with a blade that I honed. Does this mean I have no one to blame but myself?


Aye that it does Bruce...

I wasn't really singling out that thread, it was just the most recent, sorry if it looked that way....

I think that was well-said Glen. Very well-said.

I have noticed, over time, that honing and stone discussions have really increased on the boards. In terms of frequency, that is, and amongst newer members too. And that is natural. But it is also indicative of a mindset that focusses on the tool and its edge. Again, this is natural and we all know that a sharp and smooth edge gives the best shaves, other things being equal.

Unfortunately it is these "other things" that really are not equal. Not when you are a new straight user, anyway. Sharpness is easy when you are new - $30 or so and postage gets you sharp in what? 2-3 weeks? Learning to use that tool effectively is a much more demanding task because it involves the individual taking responsibility for their own actions and putting the many, many little things together to make a good shave. It is a difficult thing that only comes with time, patience, persistence and practice.

A sharp razor is a necessary, but not sufficient, condition for attaining good shaves. Moreover, it is only one of a plethora of conditions needed to get a good shave. And while I understand why people tend to gravitate toward the honing side of things, I really do think we need to weight the shaving technique stuff a little more heavily than we do.

Here endeth my rant :o

James.

And a very well stated rant it was my friend :)

Well.. Dear honemeisters and other very helpful people.

I do was one of those that on my first shave thought the razor wasnt sharp... then I thought.. that cant be because one of you guys honed it and that gave me enough confidence to go on and better my technique and I now have my best shaves ever..

When you start as a newbe there are numerous things you can do wrong and there are a lot of variables in a good shave.

Getting a razor honed by one of the guys over here takes one of those variables out of the equation.. Off course I can imagine you feel the responsibility and probably every now and then something goes wrong.. But I cant imagine faults are not corrected in a respectable way...I have only been positively surprised by the service and kindness of the people here on this forum.

So Thanks for taking the responsibility... you are all doing a great job helping us newbs avoiding cuts, red faces and frustration.

Maarten

The particular blade in question had a bevel close to 25 deg when the honemeister in question got it. It was corrected. The honemeister, who I will leave without mention throughout this post, doesn't shave test, but rather uses the arm hair test on every razor that leaves his hands.
My sources indicate the difference of opinion is being settled privately in a way that both parties can retain their dignity.

There is a great deal of trust given to honemeisters when a newbie sends a blade to them. The newbie may not have a clue what a shave ready razor feel like or how to treat it, and the honemeister can do nothing but provide the best possible edge. Asking someone new at straight shaving to evaluate an edge is comparable to asking a teenager to evaluate single malt scotch. They are more likely to do harm to themselves the first few times around than notice anything subtle or enjoyable. Still, they should not be put off by someone who slips them turpentine and says it's Glenfiddich.

On a more specific/personal level, I've actually been threatened before by "gentlemen" claiming I scammed them and that their face is raw from my poorly honed razor. They said they'd slander my name online and "expose" me. I told him to bring it and he did. His post lasted 7 minutes until it was deleted by a mod and he was banned (on another forum). Goes to show you, you make more friends with an open mind than with an open mouth.

</rant>

I couldn't agree more with what has been said above. People send their razors off to you guys because you are all experts at this, enough said. I have a lot of respect for what you honemeisters do, and I wish I could do it! Keep up the great work,

Dave

sharpness of a blade and the ability to utilize that sharpness are two different things. I have received 2 blades sharpened by Lynn. They are sharper than I can make a razor, but I don't enjoy the shave from them until they dull a bit. I suppose they are sharper than my ability to use them. When I hone a blade, it gets to an edge that I can use, and feel comfortable with which is quite a bit duller than Lynn's razors.
Just a thought.

Straight razor shave one: "Hey, that razor doesn't shave. It must be dull"
Straight razor shave two: "When I buy that expensive soap, the shave will be better"
Straight razor shave three: "There's something wrong with my strop, it must be defect"
Straight razor shave four: "I need a better Badger"
Straight razor shave five: "I need a hone"
Straight razor shave six: "My hone is defect :-("
Straight razor shave seven: "If I get my edge is sharper, my shaves will be closer"
Straight razor shave eight: "I need a razor that takes a keener edge"
Straight razor shave nine: "I need a Shapton"
Straight razor shave ten: "My Shapton is not hone-ready :-("
Straight razor shave eleven: "If I get a pricey lapping plate, my honing will be better"
Straight razor shave twelve: "I need a custom razor. It will be keener than a non-custom"
Straight razor shave thirteen: "I need a Nakayama"
Straight razor shave fourteen "That OldSchool guy is a crook" (;) only joking, OS)
Straight razor shave fifteen: "I need diamond paste"
Straight razor shave sixteen: "That diamond stuff is worthless"

Around this time, if you are lucky, the wife will decide it's time to enter the scene, and stop the vortex of expenses. For the first time, you will be truly focused on "shaving" instead of being distracted by your own C0ckiness.

Straight razor shave seventeen: "hm, this is getting closer, if I pay a bit more attention at my shaving angle, it might even be better next time"
Straight razor shave eighteen: "wow, it never occurred to me how nice that lather actually smells"
Straight razor shave twenty: "Honing on that Nakayama is like caressing a woman. That OldSchool guy must have been onto something after all."
Straight razor shave twenty-one: "Wow, straight razor shaving is all about slowing down, I never expected it to become such an assuasive activity."

Too true Bart...people seem to want to blame anything/anyone but themselves!

Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

Straight razor shave twenty: "Honing on that Nakayama is like caressing a woman. That OldSchool guy must have been onto something after all."

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Are your women normally so small, cold and covered in muddy water?
jks
Japanese naturals are the worst kind of HAD (from a financial POV)

I feel for you guys. How many other examples are there where you provide a expert, time-consuming service for a bargain price, knowing there's a high chance that the people who benefit most from what you do are unlikely to realise you've done a great job? I can't think of any.

But at the same time I have to feel sorry for j03. He ordered a nice razor - then saw what looked like a chip in the blade. Bought a strop - it had a cut in it. Took the blade to be sharpened - ended up at a knifesmith who knew nothing about razors. Now it looks like he has rust on his blade because he thought the "moisture trap" Dovo tin was suitable for storing it after use. He must feel like the only guy in a 100m race who has hurdles in his lane. :(

If you read all his posts it's obvious he is reading up and learning the info, and asking questions when he's unsure. If I'd been through what he has, I may not have been as patient as he is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bart

Straight razor shave one: "Hey, that razor doesn't shave. It must be dull"
Straight razor shave two: "When I buy that expensive soap, the shave will be better"
Straight razor shave three: "There's something wrong with my strop, it must be defect"
Straight razor shave four: "I need a better Badger"
Straight razor shave five: "I need a hone"
Straight razor shave six: "My hone is defect :-("
Straight razor shave seven: "If I get my edge is sharper, my shaves will be closer"
Straight razor shave eight: "I need a razor that takes a keener edge"
Straight razor shave nine: "I need a Shapton"
Straight razor shave ten: "My Shapton is not hone-ready :-("
Straight razor shave eleven: "If I get a pricey lapping plate, my honing will be better"
Straight razor shave twelve: "I need a custom razor. It will be keener than a non-custom"
Straight razor shave thirteen: "I need a Nakayama"
Straight razor shave fourteen "That OldSchool guy is a crook" (;) only joking, OS)
Straight razor shave fifteen: "I need diamond paste"
Straight razor shave sixteen: "That diamond stuff is worthless"

Around this time, if you are lucky, the wife will decide it's time to enter the scene, and stop the vortex of expenses. For the first time, you will be truly focused on "shaving" instead of being distracted by your own C0ckiness.

Straight razor shave seventeen: "hm, this is getting closer, if I pay a bit more attention at my shaving angle, it might even be better next time"
Straight razor shave eighteen: "wow, it never occurred to me how nice that lather actually smells"
Straight razor shave twenty: "Honing on that Nakayama is like caressing a woman. That OldSchool guy must have been onto something after all."
Straight razor shave twenty-one: "Wow, straight razor shaving is all about slowing down, I never expected it to become such an assuasive activity."

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Ummmmmm.... Bart? Would you mind telling me where in my bathroom you have hidden the microphone??

Quote:

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Originally Posted by floppyshoes

Are your women normally so small, cold and covered in muddy water?
jks
Japanese naturals are the worst kind of HAD (from a financial POV)

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Women can be honed. But the stones are differently lapped...
YouTube - Hot Stone Massage Therapy : Benefits of Hot Stone Massage Therapy

:cool:
Bart.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FloorPizza

Ummmmmm.... Bart? Would you mind telling me where in my bathroom you have hidden the microphone??

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It's installed, together with a mini-camera, in the spacer and pin of the first razor I honed for you...
:roflmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

When I see threads like this one: http://straightrazorpalace.com/newbi...rst-shave.html

it finally prompted me to write some thoughts down...

As a Restorer and Honemiester we actually take on a huge responsibility by offering our services, especially to the newbies on the forum.... It is up to us to try and make sure that your first experience with a straight razor is as good as we can possibly make it...
I know that I speak at least for all the reputable guys that offer these services, the last thing in the world we would ever want to happen is that you get a bad shave from one of our razors... As far as I know everyone of us test shave every blade we put out there, albeit we do so with an experienced and confident hand, but we know that the razor shaves as good as it possibly can, for us, before we send it back to you... It is impossible for any of us to do more than that, since we are not there with you helping out as you do your prep, lather, and shaving strokes....
I don't think there is one of us that doesn't stand behind their services, fully...
Just keep this in mind, all it takes is a PM to any of us, and we are there to help, I think all of us are more concerned with you loving your new straight razor, than the money we might have made doing the work for you...

Just some rambling thoughts... with no offense meant to anyone!!

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You're right in pointing out that there is a lot more involved than owning a sharp razor to achieve a good shave. IMO the honemeister's "responsibility"; since you're using that word, is to get the blade shave ready (assuming there is no serious defect or damage rendering this impossible). Whether or not the owner is subsequently able to get a good shave is as much the honemeister's responsibility as it is the car dealer's responsibility how well you drive: there's a few things you've got to know before you can start shaving, driving or doing other things in life that you can only do under the assumption that you're a responsible, reasonable and well-informed adult.

After having had several razors sharpened by several honemeisters, I'm pretty sure about 2 things:
- they did exactly what I wanted: make the razors extremely sharp and shave ready in the sense that you open the razor and can shave with it right away (within the limits imposed by the blades characteristics such as condition, steel quality, age, structural integrity, etc. or within the limits they considered best to stay within for the particular blade for various reasons that they explain to you)
- they did not do it for the money (one did it for free, the other did several blades at a substantial discount). Nobody who isnt passionate about straight razors would go through the time and trouble of setting bevels, honing, stropping, test shaving, doing more honing and stropping, answering countless PMs, wrapping and sending the razors to make a few bucks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cornelius

Nobody who isnt passionate about straight razors would go through the time and trouble of setting bevels, honing, stropping, test shaving, doing more honing and stropping, answering countless PMs, wrapping and sending the razors to make a few bucks.

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Finally, someone who understands.

i posted that wondering about human error...my mistakes, not commenting on the service which i found fast, and exceptional as i later put.

If you could close that thread it would be appreciated.

Please understand, Jo3 no one here on this thread I can assure you is singling you out or jumping on you. Just as Glen clarified.

I've said this before multiple times. I give great props to you "Honemeisters" who offer your services to the public. I feel is does say more about your dedication than it does about money. There's no such thing as a full time Honemeister who gains all of his income strictly from honing razors.

You could call me Mr. Analogy. Most men shave. Most men drive an automobile. I drive a manual transmission vehicle. I can virtually guarantee that if I was given the opportunity to drive a finely tuned professional high speed race car, if I could make the thing even go at all the first few times, I'm sure I'd be disappointed or at the least, I know that I would not be able to master that machine without learning how to drive it (shave with a straight vs. shaving with other methods I was used to) and I would be wrong if I blamed the car or the mechanics for my disappointment.

That's a HUGE challenge that a honemeister has: Honemeisters are up against inexperience. I tip my hat to you guys because as every one of you that I've ever known have said repeatedly, you're more than willing to work with someone new/inexperienced to help them along. Lynn was the Honemeister that provided my only Honemeister honed razors (2 of them at different times) and he gladly touched up the edge of my first one that I screwed up out of the gate with improper stropping.

Heck, I've been shaving this way daily for about 1 1/2 years and I still have subtle shaving discoveries and still do not consider myself a Shavemeister with absolute perfect mastery. Don't get me wrong, shaving this way is second nature, comfortable and relaxing. I even find myself totally in tune to shaving during the shave and yet find myself so deep in thought about something non-shaving related that I was in tune to shaving on a deeper level. That's a form of mastery to some degree.

Chris L

Chris L

That's what I was trying to say, Chris. You just went in a different direction to say it. Some say I'm an ass, I just say I'm direct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris L

Please understand, Jo3 no one here on this thread I can assure you is singling you out or jumping on you. Just as Glen clarified.

I've said this before multiple times. I give great props to you "Honemeisters" who offer your services to the public. I feel is does say more about your dedication than it does about money. There's no such thing as a full time Honemeister who gains all of his income strictly from honing razors.

You could call me Mr. Analogy. Most men shave. Most men drive an automobile. I drive a manual transmission vehicle. I can virtually guarantee that if I was given the opportunity to drive a finely tuned professional high speed race car, if I could make the thing even go at all the first few times, I'm sure I'd be disappointed or at the least, I know that I would not be able to master that machine without learning how to drive it (shave with a straight vs. shaving with other methods I was used to) and I would be wrong if I blamed the car or the mechanics for my disappointment.

That's a HUGE challenge that a honemeister has: Honemeisters are up against inexperience. I tip my hat to you guys because as every one of you that I've ever known have said repeatedly, you're more than willing to work with someone new/inexperienced to help them along. Lynn was the Honemeister that provided my only Honemeister honed razors (2 of them at different times) and he gladly touched up the edge of my first one that I screwed up out of the gate with improper stropping.

Heck, I've been shaving this way daily for about 1 1/2 years and I still have subtle shaving discoveries and still do not consider myself a Shavemeister with absolute perfect mastery. Don't get me wrong, shaving this way is second nature, comfortable and relaxing. I even find myself totally in tune to shaving during the shave and yet find myself so deep in thought about something non-shaving related that I was in tune to shaving on a deeper level. That's a form of mastery to some degree.

Chris L

Chris L

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I know, but i was just clarifying in case there was any misunderstanding. i am happy with the reply and correspondence i have had with the honemeister i sent my blade to. i wasn't in anyway critiquing his services, which so far seems top-notch!. I highly doubt any other one would have the understanding and humility he has had to re-assess. i would imagine most would just say something in the regards of "you did something wrong", etc.,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ditch Doc

That's what I was trying to say, Chris. You just went in a different direction to say it. Some say I'm an ass, I just say I'm direct.

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Direct is better, my friend. I just yap too much.:D

Chris L

If I may chime in on this topic. I am getting ready to send a razor out to a honemeister in the next few days. My first straight. I am very confident in my sharpening skills of anything but a straight. I have even had former employers bring me knives into work to sharpen on their time because they couldn't get the same edge on a knife that I can. That being said, I have never held a properly honed straight so I don't know what one should feel like. I have a very good idea, but, I would still prefer my first razor be done by someone that knows what they are doing.

I will definitely attempt honing after I know what one should feel like. That I can be sure of. I like my knives to shave the hair off my arm going with the grain before I consider them sharp enough.

Personally, I think it is a excellent idea to have your first razor honed by someone that knows what they are doing. Whether you buy it shave ready from one of the sites that offer the service, or send an eBay find off to one of our honemeisters on this site, a person would get the best razor to begin the transition from a multi blade cartridge razor to shaving the way it should be done.

Thanks to all the ones that offer the service. :bow:bow

I think you're going to love honing your own razors, Revs. Glad to have you here.

Chris L

I saw this set of Boker instructions on an ebay auction and snagged the photo. Apparently complaints from new straight shavers happened in the good old days too. :) This is what Boker and Torrey included with their razors way back when.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

When I see threads like this one: http://straightrazorpalace.com/newbi...rst-shave.html

it finally prompted me to write some thoughts down...

As a Restorer and Honemiester we actually take on a huge responsibility by offering our services, especially to the newbies on the forum.... It is up to us to try and make sure that your first experience with a straight razor is as good as we can possibly make it...
I know that I speak at least for all the reputable guys that offer these services, the last thing in the world we would ever want to happen is that you get a bad shave from one of our razors... As far as I know everyone of us test shaves every blade we put out there, albeit we do so with an experienced and confident hand, but we know that the razor shaves as good as it possibly can, for us, before we send it back to you... It is impossible for any of us to do more than that, since we are not there with you helping out as you do your prep, lather, and shaving strokes....
I don't think there is one of us that doesn't stand behind their services, fully...
Just keep this in mind, all it takes is a PM to any of us, and we are there to help, I think all of us are more concerned with you loving your new straight razor, than the money we might have made doing the work for you...

Just some rambling thoughts... with no offense meant to anyone!!

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I was reading this post . I couldn't believe how valuable this post was Even it has been posted long time ago.
Thank you Glen

One thing I know that happened to me was that I was too eager. I got a couple razors, new then hand-honed. I wanted to be doing all the stuff that goes with straight shaving. I wanted to strop, hone, sharpen, fidget and mess with the razor. So I did, and I think I significantly dulled several otherwise nice razors. I was just 2 weeks in and already have the Norton 4/8, barber hones, etc. when my razors were really fine, just needing normal stropping.

But the enthusiasm for a new personal hobby can lead a person to do damaging stuff!

I now have a more conservative approach, a much lighter hand on the strop, a much LATER hand on the stone...and better shaves!

This thread goes back a bit, it seems to still be as relevant today as back then, in fact we have even more people that have joined the ranks of doing Honing and Restoring for others, whether for money or not, the feeling of responsibility is always there....

I have always been amazed at how gentlemanly most everyone is on SRP...
It seems to me that the newer guys that are offering services now have stepped right up and excepted that responsibility also...

Good to see SRP hasn't changed too much over the last few years, other than the number of members keeps growing everyday :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I have always been amazed at how gentlemanly most everyone is on SRP...
It seems to me that the newer guys that are offering services now have stepped right up and excepted that responsibility also...

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They probably know that they have some pretty darn big shoes to fill Glen!