Intro & need advice re shaving for theater--Sweeney Todd

Hi All,

I am the (female) assistant director of a professional production of Sweeney Todd, and while theater is entertainment first and foremost--I want to make sure that the shaving is as credible as possible! I'm hoping the folks of SRP may be able to give me a hand, since I have not spent much time in barbershops.

I have been researching and watching videos, so we won't make the Depp stropping mistake, but I'm looking for any tips you all might have.

In particular:

1) Is a strop always attached to a chair or a wall? Any other options I haven't considered?

2) All the shaves in Sweeney Todd are done by a barber. Most of the videos I've found are for self-shavers, of course, but it would be great to get a clearer idea of possible angles, etc., for barbers. Keep in mind that the barber, for stage purposes, generally needs to be behind or to the side of the shave-ee, so that the barber's face can be seen. Is there an "order" that a barber would typically use, in terms of areas of the face?

3) What are the options for getting foam off the razor? I have seen barbers use their hands, a towel, etc. What is most common?

4) Long strokes are useful musically. I have seen a mixture of long and short strokes on video--is it okay to use long strokes, say for the below-jaw area?

5) Are there any egregious mistakes that you have seen on stage or screen that you want to warn us to avoid? (Luckily, the stage is more forgiving than the camera, since the audience is further away.)

Thanks in advance for your input and expertise! Much appreciated.

Welcome to SRP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mizlord

Hi All,
1) Is a strop always attached to a chair or a wall? Any other options I haven't considered?
Well it has to be tight, so any sturdy object would do. Whatever works on stage for your production, should be fine.

2) All the shaves in Sweeney Todd are done by a barber. Most of the videos I've found are for self-shavers, of course, but it would be great to get a clearer idea of possible angles, etc., for barbers. Keep in mind that the barber, for stage purposes, generally needs to be behind or to the side of the shave-ee, so that the barber's face can be seen. Is there an "order" that a barber would typically use, in terms of areas of the face?
I seem to remember a barber's manual suggesting an order, but I'm not quite sure. We have a couple of pages of the barber's manual in pdf format uploaded in the wiki, but I don't think they have that part. Also there are few videos on youtube of barbers shaving customers - those may be useful to you. There's a guy in Turkey, one in China, and I think one from the Waldorf barber shop or something like this.

3) What are the options for getting foam off the razor? I have seen barbers use their hands, a towel, etc. What is most common?
There are these rubber balls, that I've seen on ebay, but I'm not sure if they were mass used in the past. I think towel would be the better way.

4) Long strokes are useful musically. I have seen a mixture of long and short strokes on video--is it okay to use long strokes, say for the below-jaw area?
Sure, I don't know if it's what a barber would use, but you're not making a documentary on shaving :) If it works well musically I'd say go for it.

5) Are there any egregious mistakes that you have seen on stage or screen that you want to warn us to avoid? (Luckily, the stage is more forgiving than the camera, since the audience is further away.)
Yes, note my avatar - that's stropping on a paddle strop. In the next scene the rather famous actor/director tests the edge on his thumbnail (this generally destroys the edge). And this was filmed in 1929 in Europe, so I'm pretty sure they didn't lack the expertise.
Thanks in advance for your input and expertise! Much appreciated.
Others will hopefully be more helpful and also correct any misinformation I may be giving you.

---

there is also a barber school instruction video available in the help files as well

Ivan (aka Gugi) mentioned his avatar. It would be acceptable and accurate for a barber to use a paddle or loom strop which does not have to be fixed to anything during use. Traditionally most would associate straight razor shaving with a hanging strop; barbers chose to use paddle strops as well.

One thing not yet mentioned; Shaving generally begins with "WTG" (With The Grain of the whiskers) Shaving left to right WTG would be approaching whiskers growing in this direction: /////////// XTG or across the grain would be diagonal across the grain. The final passes used my many BUT NOT ALL straight razor shavers is ATG or against the grain. Left to right ATG then would be: \\\\\\\\\\\\\\. These passes are performed in stages. Lather, WTG across the face and neck. Relather, XTG across the face and neck. Then, some will either relather or use plain water capitalizing on the viscous soap or cream residue left on the face and do an ATG final set of passes. Again, a significant number of straight razor shavers omit the ATG shaving passes completely either because their shaves are exceptional with only WTG and XTG (perfected technique and a perfect razor edge) or to reduce/eliminate the possibility of irritation.

I bring all of this up because STARTING a shave right out of the gate with ATG passes for MOST men would be harsh and lead to irritation and even "weepers" (blood spots) which in turn would lead to ingrown hairs.

Neck hair on many men, myself included tends to grown in weird haphazard directions. For the sake of a theater production and shaving accuracy some generalizations could be made that neck whiskers could be viewed as growing downward. Therefore, STARTING a neck shave going upward from the adam's apple to the chin would be shaving ATG and most men would not do this for first passes. Chins would be from the lower lip down to the tip of the chin rather than up to the lip for the same reason; although going from one side of the chin across the chin "XTG" could be acceptable as many (myself included) go XTG on the chin.

I hope that helps and good luck.

Chris L

Lots of options for you but I will say that the most common method of cleaning a razor is on a "barber tissue". Its a sheet of tissue paper.

The only really big mistake is understanding that difference in direction between the shaving stroke and the killing stroke. Sideways kills. I would be dramatic about the difference.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mizlord

1) Is a strop always attached to a chair or a wall? Any other options I haven't considered?

I'm assuming that for some reason dealing with staging you don't want to have a strop attached to the chair? There are paddle strops, but a barber would be most likely to have a hanging strop on his chair or within reach.

2) All the shaves in Sweeney Todd are done by a barber. Most of the videos I've found are for self-shavers, of course, but it would be great to get a clearer idea of possible angles, etc., for barbers. Keep in mind that the barber, for stage purposes, generally needs to be behind or to the side of the shave-ee, so that the barber's face can be seen. Is there an "order" that a barber would typically use, in terms of areas of the face?

As ChrisL said, there are several barber's manuals available on the Wiki, and others available on the web. Check one of those for orders -- I specifically recall a picture of the face with areas outlined and numbers. Very phrenologic, I remember thinking.

3) What are the options for getting foam off the razor? I have seen barbers use their hands, a towel, etc. What is most common?

Almost every barber I've ever gotten a shave from wipes the shaving cream from the razor off onto the fleshy part at the base of the thumb, and when that gets substantial, gets rid of it (in different ways).

4) Long strokes are useful musically. I have seen a mixture of long and short strokes on video--is it okay to use long strokes, say for the below-jaw area?

Long strokes would be a neck thing. Up or down. Could also go from sideburn to chin, curving.

5) Are there any egregious mistakes that you have seen on stage or screen that you want to warn us to avoid? (Luckily, the stage is more forgiving than the camera, since the audience is further away.)

Incorrect shave angle is the most common mistake.

Thanks in advance for your input and expertise! Much appreciated.

---

Cheers,

cass

Thanks all! This is very helpful.

We have a member here on SRP that would probably be of a huge help, since he does both Theater and straight shaving you might send a PM to Nickelking / Jerad...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gssixgun

We have a member here on SRP that would probably be of a huge help, since he does both Theater and straight shaving you might send a PM to Nickelking / Jerad...

---

So is Xman, but then he's Canadian.;)

Just make sure tou use a very very dull blade and wipe off the lather with it. Don't go for realism and try to actually shave somebody on stage. Shaving with a straight requires concentration. I would not want to be shaved by somebody that is performing also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CraigJ

Just make sure tou use a very very dull blade and wipe off the lather with it. Don't go for realism and try to actually shave somebody on stage. Shaving with a straight requires concentration. I would not want to be shaved by somebody that is performing also.

---

I totally agree with this gentleman. :)

Cassady:

Is this the diagram you remember:

http://www.donkeyontheedge.com/i/french_shave.jpg

There are *some* indications of shave direction on this website:

http://officialwebsite.us/propershavingdirections.html

But I leave it to the guys here to pass judgement on that before you take them as gospel.

+1 on the dull blade. Nothing like a musical number going on around you while someone has a shave ready straight to your throat:chop:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nun2sharp

So is Xman, but then he's Canadian.;)

---

Ouch! dem's fightin words :jedi: :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sidneykidney

Cassady:

Is this the diagram you remember:

---

If I remember correctly, it was one very much like that, but I recall a different face angle. But looks like that one would do fine!

cass

Looking at that diagram again it appears that a XTG pass is being recommended on the cheeks first time round. I ALWAYS go WTG on a first pass on the cheeks. I think most folks do the same.

Thanks everyone. Yes, of course the razors will be completely dull. There's no way you can have something that dangerous onstage...even if they weren't being used to "shave" people, and were just props on the table, they would be dulled. In rehearsal the blades are covered with orange tape so actors don't get nervous...

The shaves can't be very complicated, so I think they will basically be doing with the grain, not too many strokes...and hopefully the actors can maintain a decent angle, it looked like the razor was going towards 90 degrees yesterday!

I don't know if any of you have seen the British movie version of Sweeney Todd starring Ray Winstone (a great actor). There are quite a few shaving scenes that look quite accurate to my untutored eye. It's a very different story from the Sondheim version, but excellent performances in the lead roles. (It's currently in rotation on IFC if you happen to catch it.)

Best of luck with the play! :) :gl: