NOOBY ALMOST READY TO BUY HONES HELP

:shrug:
My first straight edge arrived a few days ago with a linen/leather strop, shaving mug, soap, and badger brush. I have injoyed the last few shaves, something I have never actually said about shaving before. I have gotten a few red bumps and such.

Question: Are the red bumps due to the possibility that the razor wasn't sharp enough out of the box? When you purchase a non-pre-honed razor, is it usable out of the box?
Answere: Most likely due to the new unhoned razor out of the box. Could be due to pressing to hard.

I think a set of wet stones may help with this initial problem. Opinions? I am only looking to get a very very sharp razor edge currently. Not worrying about repairs at this point. So, I need recommendations. A few sources say that the 4k/8k commbination stone is the best for straight razors. So here is what I "think" I want ideally:

1k (probably purchased latter)
4k/8k
16k
30k

Question: Is sharpton or norton better for straight razors? Any comparisions or explainations of differences/opinions is appreciated. Cost is a factor, I'd like to spend less than $150, but achieve a much better than average edge.
Answere: $150 for four stones is not practical. BBW/Coticule recommendation

Question about the strop: I have heard "don't put any paste on the linen side", I have also heard "you must put paste on the linen side". Which Is correct?
Answere: Optional, put paste on linen if you want a higher abrassion. Linen strops come pre impregnated for life.

Question: Can you use the leather side without treating it with the special paste first, or is paste required?
Answere: You can use leather strop without oil or conditioner; I suspect it is good practice to use it though.

Question: If grinding stones are graded by the micron size of the particles, what would the leather and linen sides of a strop be? what about when associated pastes are added? I realize it may be in the 30k-60k range or greater, but I'd like a precise definition.
Answere: STILL NEEDED

Question: If I go anywhere in the world to any vendor in the world and ask for a 1k/4k/8k/16k/30k 3" sharpening stone, Is there any chance I will get something that can damage my blade? I ask this because I have looked at Nortons site and these stones appear to be for kitchen knifes and not straight razors. I realize this probably isn't a big deal, I just want to make sure there aren't any other variables to consider when selecting a stone other than width and grain size. What about variables concerning diamond, natural, synthetic, ceramic, color, origin, etc.
Answere: All you need to specify is the width and grain size to ensure your new stone won't damage your blade. All other options such as dimond vs. stone, natural vs. synthetic, and other specificities are largely focused on facters such as cost, piece of mind, and easy of honing.

:jedi:

at first welcome to srp.
you have a lot questions and i will try answer my best.
Hones you want to spend 150 and buy 4 stones ?Sorry it is not possible i think just shampton 30. around 280$.Now what i will advise to buy that money will be.
Norton 4/8k. chro 2,you have already strops.
2 nd.you heart right there is different pastes you will put conditioner or leather side.
To use chro2 you can use paddle strip. or paddle strop and put any
paste you like or you can make cheap balsa strop.
3 rd answer is yes/
4th you answered 30-60 different opinion\

Norton 4/8k should be 4000/8000 doesn't matter where you buy except not to get fake norton's
hope this helps

Have you considered a natural BBW/Coticule combo as an alternative to synthetic hones? There's one in the classifieds for $140 which I think is a fair price. I have just switched to one and I love it! :D

Red bumps: Where did you buy the razor? If it was brand new and not pre-sharpened, it was 100% not shave ready; and/or you used too much pressure. Send it to one of the honemeisters (see their services in classifieds).

Strop linen: some (if not all) new ones are impregnated for life, no need to paste them. I do not paste mine. Some like them more abrasive and apply pastes. It is a personal preference thing.

Leather strop: no paste is needed. I rub mine with my palms to make it draw nicely. Some use lather or oil for conditioning.

You'll hear many different answers here because only strongly opinionated individuals dare to shave with straights! :D Read the SRP wiki, that will help a lot.

Lets move this to the Newbie forum so you will get more help on all these questions......

Thanks and welcome to SRP

not to threadjack..but what is the BBW. i've been reading and reading and reading today trying to figure that acronym out.

also, what is the DMT?

thank..

and sorry

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Originally Posted by Slartibartfast

..but what is the BBW. i've been reading and reading and reading...

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http://straightrazorpalace.com/srpwi...bbreviations#B
Or Belgian Blue Whetstone :)

DMT = Diamond Machining Technology

BBW = Belgian Blue Whestone See Ardennes Coticule - natural sharpening stones from Vielsalm Belgium. - Whetstones

DMT = American company that produces diamond-based hones DMT Diamond Gives The Edge - Why

Thank you! i feel like a weight has been lifted now.

If you buy one of the combo stones is that the same as a buying bbw & Coticule seperately?

From my reading today, this seemed like the best bang for my buck to get into honing. Although i'm guessing these are only good if your razor allready has an edge and just needs sharpened?

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

at first welcome to srp.
you have a lot questions and i will try answer my best.
Hones you want to spend 150 and buy 4 stones ?Sorry it is not possible i think just shampton 30. around 280$.Now what i will advise to buy that money will be.
Norton 4/8k. chro 2,you have already strops.
2 nd.you heart right there is different pastes you will put conditioner or leather side.
To use chro2 you can use paddle strip. or paddle strop and put any
paste you like or you can make cheap balsa strop.
3 rd answer is yes/
4th you answered 30-60 different opinion\

Norton 4/8k should be 4000/8000 doesn't matter where you buy except not to get fake norton's
hope this helps

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Boy, it sounds like there is some good information there. Unfortunately, I can't seem to understand your English. Note also that I am fairly new and do not know all the slang and acronyms, so please be a little more descriptive. Thanks, this is helping so far.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Are the red bumps due to the possibility that the razor wasn't sharp enough out of the box?

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Yes, if the razor isn't sharp you end up scraping the skin and using excessive force, causing irritation.

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When you purchase a non-pre-honed razor, is it usable out of the box?

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Maybe, but probably not. If it isn't described as "shave-ready" assume it isn't.

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A few sources say that the 4k/8k commbination stone is the best for straight razors.

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It is a good start. The 4K is coarse enough to set the bevel on a new razor, i.e. ensure the 2 sides of the blade edge meet at a point without a flat spot which would make it blunt. The 8K is fine enough to polish the edge to a reasonably smooth finish.

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Question: Is sharpton or norton better for straight razors?

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I only have the Norton 4/8K. It is a nice stone, the 8K side in particular feels buttery smooth in use which is reassuring. It should, however, be lapped (flattened), meaning you also need to buy the Norton flattening stone or a coarse DMT diamond plate.

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Question about the strop: I have heard "don't put any paste on the linen side", I have also heard "you must put paste on the linen side". Which Is correct?

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Both are correct!
A plain linen or cotton side is worth having, although some people might do without. The exact purpose is not really a known fact. I'm inclined to believe it removes any loose bits of metal and rust from the blade edge prior to stropping on leather. It is definitely useful for a final drying off of the blade after cleaning it.
A pasted linen side serves as a final polish after honing, and can be used for quick touch-up sharpening if you feel the blade is losing its edge. Many people report good results with CrO2 paste on a linen strop.
I recommend keeping a plain linen/cotton strop, and getting an additional one for putting paste on if you want that.

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Can you use the leather side without treating it with the special paste first, or is paste required?

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You can use it without treatment. Applying the "yellow" paste or neatsfoot oil etc can help soften it and improve draw, but you don't have to. Instead, try just rubbing the leather with the palm of your hand as often as is convenient, this will transfer skin oils and do much the same thing.

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If grinding stones are graded by the micron size of the particles, what would the leather and linen sides of a strop be? what about when associated pastes are added? I realize it may be in the 30k-60k range or greater, but I'd like a precise definition.

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Any abrasive effect from a (unpasted) strop is a secondary effect and should only be seen as a bonus. Working out what grit the effect is would be giving it too much importance. A pasted linen strop would be as coarse as the paste you use. I believe CrO2 is about 0.5 micron.

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If I go anywhere in the world to any vendor in the world and ask for a 1k/4k/8k/16k/30k 3" sharpening stone, Is there any chance I will get something that can damage my blade?

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If it is flat and smooth and accurately described it should be safe. If it has chips, bumps or other flaws it could damage the blade. You can avoid most risks by lapping the stone, and at the same time round off the edges and corners. Diamond hones like DMTs can be a bit rough when new and can cause microchips, this can be fixed by breaking them in.

As for your budget, I'm wondering if these will be good for you:
Norton 4/8K; Chinese 12K; CrO2 paste on a second linen strop as final polisher.
Buy a Norton flattening stone if it is in budget, otherwise buy a few sheets of wet and dry sandpaper to do the job.

:gl:

EDIT> Also don't think you HAVE to use 3" wide hones. Some of the recent threads I've read on these forums make me think that having a hone that matches the razor's width is not only unnecessary, but undesirable. Especially if the blade is not perfectly straight (and none are perfectly straight!) using a X-pattern stroke on a 2 inch hone can be better.

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Originally Posted by sparq

Have you considered a natural BBW/Coticule combo as an alternative to synthetic hones? There's one in the classifieds for $140 which I think is a fair price. I have just switched to one and I love it! :D

Red bumps: Where did you buy the razor? If it was brand new and not pre-sharpened, it was 100% not shave ready; and/or you used too much pressure. Send it to one of the honemeisters (see their services in classifieds).

Strop linen: some (if not all) new ones are impregnated for life, no need to paste them. I do not paste mine. Some like them more abrasive and apply pastes. It is a personal preference thing.

Leather strop: no paste is needed. I rub mine with my palms to make it draw nicely. Some use lather or oil for conditioning.

You'll hear many different answers here because only strongly opinionated individuals dare to shave with straights! :D Read the SRP wiki, that will help a lot.

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I baught the equipment from Lee's Razor's. I did not pay the honing charge, but the box did arrive opened. I think this is because of shipping complications though. So, until I get my stones, do you think I can just hone with the two sides of the strop, or should I stop using it until I get stones? The blade is definitely sharp enough to cut skin with less pressure than the weight of the razor.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of synthetic vs. natural vs. diamond type stones? Considering cost as well?

I am summarizing these conversations in the first post of this thread, as these threads can often wonder. Please take a look at the answers from time to time throughout the life of this thread and give opinions/additions if desired.
Thanks.

To assist in answering these questions, below is the razor and strop I purchases online at Lee's Razors.

Dovo 5/8 "Astrale" Straight Razor
Illinois Strop Co. Model #127 Razor Strop

Norton makes a starter kit with the lapping stone the 220/1k and the 4k/8k you can pick this up for $120 all day long just google Norton starter set to find the best price of the day...

After that you can add a pasted paddle strop with .50 diamond and .50 Cr and be set for life... But that won't happen, you will get hooked and look for a finishing stone to add to the arsenal...:gaah:

The only thing that sets the Norton's ahead of the rest for a beginner is that almost all of the old timers here started there, and help is more readily available, when needed and of course the price is pretty good too.

This of course is JMHO there are better stones out there but not as much help with them....

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

I baught the equipment from Lee's Razor's. I did not pay the honing charge, but the box did arrive opened. I think this is because of shipping complications though. So, until I get my stones, do you think I can just hone with the two sides of the strop, or should I stop using it until I get stones? The blade is definitely sharp enough to cut skin with less pressure than the weight of the razor.

What are the advantages/disadvantages of synthetic vs. natural vs. diamond type stones? Considering cost as well?

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Hones - comparison table - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I advice you to send your razor to a honemeister and get at least one more if you want to venture into honing. When you get your hone, you will not be able to tell if it is sharp enough without knowing what sharp really means - honemeisters' edges are excellent benchmarks.

You cannot hone on a strop, but good stropping will prolong the life of your edge and increase time intervals between honing sessions.

I would not shave with a dull razor again. It hurts.

Btw. the combo stone in classifieds now costs only $100. It cannot get better than that! ;)

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

My first straight edge arrived a few days ago with a linen/leather strop, shaving mug, soap, and badger brush. I have injoyed the last few shaves, something I have never actually said about shaving before. I have gotten a few red bumps and such.

Question: Are the red bumps due to the possibility that the razor wasn't sharp enough out of the box? When you purchase a non-pre-honed razor, is it usable out of the box?

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It's possible. Dull blades cause you to use more pressure, which causes razor burn. The bumps may be a form of razor burn.

What razor are you using by the way?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

I think a set of wet stones may help with this initial problem. Opinions? I am only looking to get a very very sharp razor edge currently. Not worrying about repairs at this point. So, I need recommendations. A few sources say that the 4k/8k commbination stone is the best for straight razors. So here is what I "think" I want ideally:

1k (probably purchased latter)
4k/8k
16k
30k

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It's cheaper initially to just get the razor honed by an expert. There are many guys around here that qualify. Hones aren't cheap, plus there are a lot of different ones, and they tend to be a personal preference.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Question: Is sharpton or norton better for straight razors? Any comparisions or explainations of differences/opinions is appreciated. Cost is a factor, I'd like to spend less than $150, but achieve a much better than average edge.

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They both work fine. I started with the Norton, and now primarily use the Shaptons. A full set of shaptons in the grits you listed will cost you much more than $150. You can get a 4k/8k norton and a paddle strop with 0.5 micron and 0.25 micron diamond and get a really wickedly sharp edge, sharp enough that you may not enjoy shaving with it.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Question about the strop: I have heard "don't put any paste on the linen side", I have also heard "you must put paste on the linen side". Which Is correct?

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There are abrasive pastes, which many recommend that you avoid using on the linen side. There is also a Dovo strop paste that is intended for the linen side, which quite a few guys do use. I use it on my Dovo strop, and personally think it's slightly abrasive. It works pretty well. I think the Dovo linen comes pre-pasted with their white paste.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Question: Can you use the leather side without treating it with the special paste first, or is paste required?

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The yellow leather paste is just leather conditioner. Fromm makes a more liquid type of conditioner, which I prefer. You can use the leather without conditioning.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Question: If grinding stones are graded by the micron size of the particles, what would the leather and linen sides of a strop be? what about when associated pastes are added? I realize it may be in the 30k-60k range or greater, but I'd like a precise definition.

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There are a lot of different leathers, linens, and linen substitutes in common use. And even for pastes and hones there are multiple standard grading systems so you can't directly compare 8k hones between different manufacturers. And even comparing two different abrasives with the exact same size, as measured with the same grading system, you can get two very different edges on the razor. 0.5 micron chrome oxide and 0.5 micron diamond create very dissimilar-shaving edges. I love 0.5 chrome oxide but can't stand 0.5 micron diamond. Natural hones are even worse - there is natural variation in particle size and abrasive strength between different natural hones of the same type, even from the same quarry.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Question: If I go anywhere in the world to any vendor in the world and ask for a 1k/4k/8k/16k/30k 3" sharpening stone, Is there any chance I will get something that can damage my blade? I ask this because I have looked at Nortons site and these stones appear to be for kitchen knifes and not straight razors. I realize this probably isn't a big deal, I just want to make sure there aren't any other variables to consider when selecting a stone other than width and grain size. What about variables concerning diamond, natural, synthetic, ceramic, color, origin, etc.

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All those variables matter. There isn't even a standard definition for grit size - the 8k Norton has approx 3 micron abrasives, while the 8k Shapton uses 1.86 micron abrasives. But I'd rather shave off the 8k Norton (by a slight margin).

THanks, THis is all great information! Please keep going if you have anything else at all to add anywhere. I will summarize the conversations in the first post latter tonight.

A few comments/questions/clarifications in regard to an above post:
Are there other recommended brands other than sharpton and norton?

Each, sharpton and norton, appear to grade there stones differently. Me being an engineer I have to quantize as much as possible. So, to me, the real important factors in selecting a stone from vendor to vendor are only the following:
1. Particle size in microns
2. particle consistency (natural tend to be more variable, understandably, and synthetic probably has had the particulates precisely deffined in the stone making process)
3. Particle material (diamon, stone, other?)
4. width
5. Origin (synthetic vs. natural)

I ask the question concerning what the abrasive value of a linen/leather strop is for this reason. if I buy a 30k stone, should this high value be used before the linen side or after it. What about if the linen side has paste? Where should the leather side come in with this 30k stone? What if I buy a 60k stone.? A 120k stone? and so on.

Honing and stropping are two separate things, sounds like you have one of those slightly OCD brains like mine, some things in straight - razordom are going to drive you loony tunes :gaah:

My brain will not allow me to use a natual hone, it drives me crazy that nobody can tell me the exact grit or micon size....

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

EDIT> Also don't think you HAVE to use 3" wide hones. Some of the recent threads I've read on these forums make me think that having a hone that matches the razor's width is not only unnecessary, but undesirable. Especially if the blade is not perfectly straight (and none are perfectly straight!) using a X-pattern stroke on a 2 inch hone can be better.

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I agree with your comment. Besides, any basic course in sharpening just about anyting tells you to move in an X pattern. It lengthens the stroke and make the blade fracture at a slight angle inrelation to the shaving direction which, intuitively, is desireable. However, no reason you can't do this with a 3" stone as well.

One question in regards to this:
Why do you hone with the blade leading? Ever other blade I have been taught to sharpen (never learned with a razor) you always trial with the blade, as you do with the strop and linen. This seems counter intuitive. I plan to take all the many the experts advice on this, I would just like to know the reason and why it is different than other blades.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

Honing and stropping are two separate things, sounds like you have one of those slightly OCD brains like mine, some things in straight - razordom are going to drive you loony tunes :gaah:

My brain will not allow me to use a natual hone, it drives me crazy that nobody can tell me the exact grit or micon size....

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I think it's probably more of an aspergers syndrome; it runs in the family. It's funny. I am good at artistic things and I am good at scientific methodical things. But when you try and combine the two, I always have a problem.

Got another question!
I think the suggestion to go to a honemaster is probably a good one. Okay, where do I find them? I would, ideally, like to bring it in and watch the process if possible. I am in chattanooga TN. I searched honemaster on google. All I found were machine shop type places. Is this where I need to go? My intuition says no.

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

I think it's probably more of an aspergers syndrome; it runs in the family. It's funny. I am good at artistic things and I am good at scientific methodical things. But when you try and combine the two, I always have a problem.

Got another question!
I think the suggestion to go to a honemaster is probably a good one. Okay, where do I find them? I would, ideally, like to bring it in and watch the process if possible. I am in chattanooga TN. I searched honemaster on google. All I found were machine shop type places. Is this where I need to go? My intuition says no.

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Member Services - Straight Razor Place Classifieds

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

However, no reason you can't do this with a 3" stone as well.

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With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone?

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Why do you hone with the blade leading?

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I'm not certain, but I think you are less likely to get a burr when you lead with the blade edge(*). Burrs are a good indicator of sharpness for some knife edges, telling you it's time to move on to a finer grit. But on straight razors burrs are a no-no.

(*) During honing metal is stripped off as you hone. But this loose metal can be deposited back onto the blade!!! If you hone edge first these deposits happen away from the edge where they can do no harm. But if you have the edge trailing the deposits can be on the edge, ruining the straightness and maybe forming a burr. The Verhoeven paper explains this. http://mse.iastate.edu/fileadmin/www...nifeShExps.pdf

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It seems likely to this author that two mechanisms give rise to bur formation along the edge during sharpening.
(1) Debris Deposit The polishing and grinding on the metal faces of a knife blade during sharpening produces an abrasive polishing action. One may think of this action as like having thousands of little ploughs (abrasive particles) that move along the surface pushing scraped up metal, debris, in front of them. If the abrasion direction is away-from the edge, direction A of Fig. 3, then the debris will be deposited along the edge on the face opposite the face being abraded. If the abrasion direction is into the edge, direction I of Fig. 3, one would not expect debris pile-up along the edge as now it is being pushed away from the edge. However, as will be shown later, debris does collect at the edge for abrasion in the I direction, although to a reduced extent. here must be a subtle mechanism of debris deposit along the edge, perhaps involving some type of back eddies at the edge.

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Te red bumps may also be indicative to PFB (pseudofolliculitis barbae) in which the follicles begin to grow under the skin. This is a link for general recognition and care of mild symptoms: Pseudofolliculitis barbae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia however it is advised that you seek professional care for moderate to severe symptoms.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...tis_barbae.jpg

My very first contribution! :y

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Originally Posted by jmueller8

Te red bumps may also be indicative to PFB (pseudofolliculitis barbae) in which the follicles begin to grow under the skin. This is a link for general recognition and care of mild symptoms: Pseudofolliculitis barbae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia however it is advised that you seek professional care for moderate to severe symptoms.


My very first contribution! :y

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I get those from Mach 3 but never from a straight.

[quote=Rajagra;325100]With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone?[quote]

Hmm. I think the way to do it would be to start on one end of the 3" stone with the blade hanging off the stone at the half way mark. Then, when the stroke is completed, the blade should have the other half hanging off the opposite end of the stone. This should produce an even stroke. Am I wrong?

You definitely seem to know your stuff.

Based on your avitar, I think you are the ideal person to ask this. Let me ask, how long do you think I should shave my face with the straight edge before moving to my head? I actually baught the razor specifically for my head, but I am getting a great deal of pleasure just on the face; I think I'll always use it for both now.

SRP classifieds has all of us on here listed... Take yer pick !!!!

[quote=Rajagra;325100]With a 3" stone the end (toe) of the blade is always in contact with the hone, and thus gets more wear compared to the heel which is only in contact for a very short time if you are using an X-stroke. People have said this does not cause problems if you use a rolling motion to vary pressure, but why work around a problem when you can eliminate it completely by using a smaller width stone? [quote]

THIS IS YOUR OPINION AND MOST IF NOT ALL THE HONEMIESTERS, ON THIS SITE WOULD DISAGREE I mean no disrespect here but you do not need to use a rolling x on a straight edge blade to not cause un-even toe wear you just need to use a nice even stroke. Thinner stones are an advantage when honing smiling and warped blades where you do need to use specialized strokes to compensate on a wide hone...... THIS is JMHO and a whole lot of honing....

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

THIS IS YOUR OPINION AND MOST IF NOT ALL THE HONEMIESTERS, ON THIS SITE WOULD DISAGREE I mean no disrespect here but you do not need to use a rolling x on a straight edge blade to not cause un-even toe wear you just need to use a nice even stroke.

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I will bow to your greater experience. BUT ... logically speaking, if you use a nice even stroke, then the part of the blade that spends most of the time on the hone (the toe) will get worn away quicker. It's hard to see what mechanism could possibly prevent this.:thinking: Maybe it's a problem that will only show after years of honing the same blade, but I think it is there. Most of us have seen old razors on auction that are thin at the end, and I think it's quite obvious how they got that way.

Anyway, the important point is this ... most people new to honing (myself included) will probably start by assuming a "full size" 3 inch hone is better than a narrower one. Would you agree that that is a false assumption? That narrower hones (such as most traditional barber hones) can be just as good if not better?

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

Hmm. I think the way to do it would be to start on one end of the 3" stone with the blade hanging off the stone at the half way mark. Then, when the stroke is completed, the blade should have the other half hanging off the opposite end of the stone.

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On most razors the "shoulder" would make it difficult to do that, and once the scales trespass on the hone that would normally make further adjustment in that direction impossible. Maybe something like that is possible with some razors though.

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Based on your avitar, I think you are the ideal person to ask this. Let me ask, how long do you think I should shave my face with the straight edge before moving to my head?

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:o That pic is quite old, done before I got into straight razors, and I now have hair on my head. :) But I hear that shaving the head with a straight can be more tricky than the face in some ways. If you do a forum search I think there are a few posts on the subject.

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

I will bow to your greater experience. BUT ... logically speaking, if you use a nice even stroke, then the part of the blade that spends most of the time on the hone (the toe) will get worn away quicker. It's hard to see what mechanism could possibly prevent this.:thinking: Maybe it's a problem that will only show after years of honing the same blade, but I think it is there. Most of us have seen old razors on auction that are thin at the end, and I think it's quite obvious how they got that way.

Actually I truly believe that the hard toe wear was caused by a lifting improper stoke used on barber's hones in the first place. If you watch someone who doesn't know the proper use, hone on a barbers hone or really any hone, you will see them lift that toe away until you correct them... Whether that is true I don't know for sure, but man it sure seems to fit...

Anyway, the important point is this ... most people new to honing (myself included) will probably start by assuming a "full size" 3 inch hone is better than a narrower one. Would you agree that that is a false assumption? That narrower hones (such as most traditional barber hones) can be just as good if not better?

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As good in the right hands and in the right usage YES... Better, NO, I would not go that far..... Again a narrow hone has it's place in the honing arsenal but it is harder for a newbie to master the proper stoke to use it...The margin for error is much greater on a narrow hone IMHO...

I believe the point in a 3" hone is so that you dont have to master the X stroke, straight strokes are used. If using a smaller width hone correctly with an X stroke the blade will still be honed evenly. Toe, heel and belly.

Here's another possibility for hones:

• $60: 600, 1200, & 8000 mesh Buy Woodcraft DMT 80th Anniversary Diamond Stone Boxed Set, Woodcraft DMT 80th
• $20: Chinese 12k 2" width Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2" x 1", Natural Polishing Water Stone, Water
• $45: DMT D8C 325 mesh for lapping and heavy work/knives DMT Dia-Sharp 8x3x3/8 in. Diamond Plates
• ≈$12: 0.5 chrome oxide http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningst...lts.asp?Cat=27

Including shipping, it might be close to your $150 target. If you use the DMT's, break 'em in first. Whatever you settle on, good luck and enjoy.

sorry but i dont have much advice on the skin except it does take a while for your face to adjust to the straight .wow i dont believe im saying this before nun2sharp";" but get your blade honed by a honemeister and buy a barber hone like a swaty :w and you can keep your blade sharp for a long time without investing a small fortune in stones

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

As good in the right hands and in the right usage YES... Better, NO, I would not go that far..... Again a narrow hone has it's place in the honing arsenal but it is harder for a newbie to master the proper stoke to use it...The margin for error is much greater on a narrow hone IMHO...

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Some of the best advise I could give a new member is to read, and believe, everything Glen says. Absolutely everything!

Believe me, this man knows what he's talking' about!

Regards,

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sticky

Here's another possibility for hones:

• $60: 600, 1200, & 8000 mesh Buy Woodcraft DMT 80th Anniversary Diamond Stone Boxed Set, Woodcraft DMT 80th
• $20: Chinese 12k 2" width Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2" x 1", Natural Polishing Water Stone, Water
• $45: DMT D8C 325 mesh for lapping and heavy work/knives DMT Dia-Sharp 8x3x3/8 in. Diamond Plates
• ≈$12: 0.5 chrome oxide http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningst...lts.asp?Cat=27

Including shipping, it might be close to your $150 target. If you use the DMT's, break 'em in first. Whatever you settle on, good luck and enjoy.

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Steven,

I applaud the wisdom of your choices here!

Steve

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sticky

Here's another possibility for hones:

• $60: 600, 1200, & 8000 mesh Buy Woodcraft DMT 80th Anniversary Diamond Stone Boxed Set, Woodcraft DMT 80th
• $20: Chinese 12k 2" width Buy Natural Water Stone, 8" x 2" x 1", Natural Polishing Water Stone, Water
• $45: DMT D8C 325 mesh for lapping and heavy work/knives DMT Dia-Sharp 8x3x3/8 in. Diamond Plates
• ≈$12: 0.5 chrome oxide http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningst...lts.asp?Cat=27

Including shipping, it might be close to your $150 target. If you use the DMT's, break 'em in first. Whatever you settle on, good luck and enjoy.

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Thanks. For the item 1 in the above quote, I have a little concern about using a DMT with the large wholes cut in the plate. Intuition tells me that this should not be used for straight razors. I could be wrong. What does everyone else out there think?

Item 2: I was thinking about purchasing this, or a similar one. I am wondering though, why is it so cheap in comparision. This type (I think I have seen this on other sites as well) Is the only water stone I have found with a grit better and 8000, but which doesn't use DMT. Are there any other products out there I am missing that have a grit greater than 8000, but that also do not use DMT. Norton only seems to go as far as 8k; shapton seems to go to 30k, but uses DMT.

I have actually made my pruchase!
I got a set that includes: Norton lapping-220/1k-4k/8k-box/stands-DVD-strop conditioner for $120
I also got: DOVO "White" paste and an extra strop

I really only wanted a linen strop, but couldn't find a strop with linen only. Are there any?

The polka-dots in the DMT's aren't a problem. You might be able to catch a true spike-point in one if the edge had a warp on it. I've used 'em on sharp-cornered tooling and knives for over 2 decades and haven't done it yet.

The Chinese 12k is priced low because of, most likely, low Chinese labor costs. Most users get excellent results from them. The Spyderco UF is very comparable, cuts faster, and costs more. The Shapton 16k is a great finisher too, and costs even more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

...
Are there any other products out there I am missing that have a grit greater than 8000, but that also do not use DMT. Norton only seems to go as far as 8k; shapton seems to go to 30k, but uses DMT.
...

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I assume you mean "lap with DMT". The Shapton, or any other hone, doesn't have to be lapped with a DMT (sandpaper and/or wet/dry will work). They're just convenient to use for the purpose.

Looks like you have already selected a good set of hones. Enjoy.

I also wanted to check and see if anyone knows if there are any linen only strops? It is to late now, but just crious. Also, can you use both sides of a linen strop?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gunslingor

I also wanted to check and see if anyone knows if there are any linen only strops? It is to late now, but just crious. Also, can you use both sides of a linen strop?

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One of our custom stropmakers might be willing to make you one if you asked nicely. You could also buy a vintage strop off of ebay that had nicked-up leather but good linen (common combination), and just remove the trashed leather side. You should be able to use both sides of the linen. I've got hanging strops that I have pastes on one side of the linen and the other side left plain, and I just disassemble the strop and flip the linen around when I need to touch up the edge on the paste.