Hi All, a bit about me and a honing query

First post here having come over from Badger and Blade where I've been learning all about my new DE for the last 3 weeks. I've been enjoying that so much that the lure of a straight proved irresistible and I bought one after a week of DE shaving. I tried it out a few times before deciding to send it for honing at the invisible edge here in the UK. Expecting it and a new strop back tomorrow!
My reasoning was that I had no idea what a shave ready blade would feel like so this is really a benchmarking exercise as I do plan to learn to hone my own blade eventually. Have watched Lynns videos on honing and quickly realised that my 30 years of experience sharpening various woodworking tools was not going to stand me in good stead with a razor but I've gone ahead and bought a DMT 8C to lap my hones and have a norton 4/8k combi on order. I want to get a stone for finishing and an old razor or two to practice with but have a question about the Belgian stones. Looking at the BBW and yellow coticule it seems that they are the natural equivalent of a norton 4/8? If this is the case would you need both, the blue to set the bevel and the yellow to polish and even then would it be necessary to get something finer to finish the job or could you take it from the yellow to the strop? If this is the case I'll cancel the backordered Norton and get the belgians as I prefer natural stones for my wood working tools.
Sorry for the long winded first post, lots to learn!
Chris

I've ordered a yellow coticule to go with my Norton 4/8K. Although the coticule is said to be 8K, people say it cuts as if it were a finer grit and gives a smoother edge.

If I had a BBW and coticule I doubt I'd buy a Norton. The Norton is cheaper though. Maybe you've already seen that Invisible Edge sell coticule bouts. These irregularly shaped stones are a bit cheaper than rectangular ones, but the Invisible Edge ones are chosen to be a good shape/size for razor honing. (I wish I'd noticed this before ordering mine from Ardennes, but the price difference isn't that great.)

I bought a coticule and put the norton away. If you just want to maintain a razor try a barbers hone. If you wish to undertake honing get the coticule.

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Originally Posted by nun2sharp

I bought a coticule and put the norton away. If you just want to maintain a razor try a barbers hone. If you wish to undertake honing get the coticule.

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So will the coticule do the whole job or would I still need a coarser stone to set the beveL?

With my limited experience and from what I've read I would say some coticules are able to set a bevel..
I bought a DMT-6E, a coticule and a BBW and that should be fine so completely hone your razor..(check the wiki for a great article on that combination).. I also have a DMT-6c and F combo for lapping the naturals..and that works great.

I think the norton combo or the BBW/coticule could do the job just as well..

Maarten

30 years, what have you been using to sharpen and lap

You can use a 1k to set the bevel and the 4k/8k to sharpen and "finish". Lower grits are useful to correct badly damaged edges. The good news is that you do not need to reset the bevel every time you hone your razors. It is for this reason that in this thread, people only focused on maintaining the edge of the razors. The yellow coticule is a finishing hone, no good for setting a bevel. There are other coticules with lower grits that can be used for that. I have a set of Norton stones and so far they have been great for me. I am sure that other members would agree with me on this one. I am going to recommend an invaluable resource to you, the wiki:

Category:Honing - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I think that you would find that your previous experience is not a waste, it never is. Once you master the basic strokes and the correct feel, your eye-hand coordination and other skills developed during this time would be invaluable, you will see. I will not be surprised if you end up a honemeister but let's not count them before they hatch... ;-) Good luck!

Al raz.

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Originally Posted by kevint

30 years, what have you been using to sharpen and lap

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Chisels, gouges, wood turning chisels, plane blades, knives etc but mostly using powered natural waterstones and latterly Tormek grinders, leather polishing wheels, arkansas , wa****a stones. Have never encountered anything as fragile as a razor edge. I was amazed at how flexible it is, this isn't somehting you see in woodworking!

The only thing I've got as far as previous is concerned is a feel for the edge and patience.

Welcome to SRP! You can get by with either approach but if it was me I would recommend getting the Norton and the coticule. The Norton 4/8 is a workhorse and IME using the pyramids as recommended by Lynn is a great hone.

The coticule if you get a yellow/blue is a versitle hone . You can cut faster by using the slurry or make it a finisher with water only but it won't IME cut as fast as a Norton 4/8. Another thing to consider is whether you are maintaining a small rotation of razors or aquirring a lot of them in varying condition.

If I was just doing a few sharp razors with undamaged edges a coticule would be fine. For speed in doing ebay specials a DMT 1200 to set bevels and a Norton 4/8 would be my go to hones. The coticule would be icing on the cake.

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Originally Posted by muddy250

Chisels, gouges, wood turning chisels, plane blades, knives etc but mostly using powered natural waterstones and latterly Tormek grinders, leather polishing wheels, arkansas , wa****a stones. Have never encountered anything as fragile as a razor edge. I was amazed at how flexible it is, this isn't somehting you see in woodworking!

The only thing I've got as far as previous is concerned is a feel for the edge and patience.

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ahhh.

I once popped off a tiny piece of toe bevel cutting something I obviously shouldn't have. I twisted the blade a little accidently which was real cause. I think it was electrical tape.

Except for an occasional grinding and using a belt sander when I was a trim carpenter I have always used hand methods. To me sharpening is sharpening; doing that, we don't always want the same kind of edge. You'll do great.

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Originally Posted by Alraz

The yellow coticule is a finishing hone, no good for setting a bevel.

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Yellows can vary quite a bit. I think littlesilverbladefromwales had/has one that was a great bevel setter. You can get them at great prices in the classifieds. The seller should know what his is best at. Otherwise Rob at Ardennes can select you a stone to meet your requirements.

I use my BBW & Coticule in place of a Norton. I've not tried a Norton, but i love the feel of the naturals. I've got diamond plates if i need to be more aggresive with the blade.

To finish a Chinese 12k is cheap. Thuringians are lovely, or you can strop straight off the coticule, if you go for one suited to finishing.

Thanks All,
It'll be hopefully some time before I need to buy one just having had it set up by Steve but I now have a good iea of which way I'll go.
Chris

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Originally Posted by muddy250

Thanks All,
It'll be hopefully some time before I need to buy one just having had it set up by Steve but I now have a good iea of which way I'll go.
Chris

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One thing to keep in mind is that there are 9255 at this time. For every question that you post, you should expect to receive approximately 20000 answers, with neither having to be necessarily wrong ;-) As I come to realize, and honing is not the exception, there is a lot of personal preference involved. In other words, there is more than one way to do things.

Al raz.

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Originally Posted by Alraz

One thing to keep in mind is that there are 9255 at this time. For every question that you post, you should expect to receive approximately 20000 answers, with neither having to be necessarily wrong ;-) As I come to realize, and honing is not the exception, there is a lot of personal preference involved. In other words, there is more than one way to do things.

Al raz.

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That's very true, on the whole it's just Horses for Courses & what you find works for you.