Common Newbie experiences

Seems that a lot of us "youngsters" find that the razor's edge grabs whiskers. We wonder: was it honed properly, is it my technique, improper prep, did I strop with too much pressure or enough or on the right surface. With no experience to draw from....how do we really know the reason?

In my own case, I have de shaved for years and have the preshave ritual down....near boiling water, scuttle, great soaps and creams, brushes, preshave stuff...

And while the de glides, the sr catches on my toughest whisker spots.

So, I have ordered another sr...from a reliable source and fellow SRP member. Armed with a few passable shaves (and thanks again to you all for encouraging me to keep at it) I will use it out of the box and compare. I figure if this doesnt grab, then I can eliminate technique as the main culprit. I'll strop carefully, and if it grabs on subsequent shaves...can I assume its my stropping?' Hoping this process...and my further reading here...helps me understand the role of these variables. Short of buying another sr or personal instruction, are there better ways? Comments, suggestions welcomed.

Jim

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Originally Posted by jleeg

Seems that a lot of us "youngsters" find that the razor's edge grabs whiskers. We wonder: was it honed properly, is it my technique, improper prep, did I strop with too much pressure or enough or on the right surface. With no experience to draw from....how do we really know the reason?

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I don't know that you can. Experience builds on itself though and through time and practice you start to learn how the razor cuts and how your face and beard respond.

Trusting that your razor is shave ready is an important start though and I think the best way to do that when you are inexperienced is to get it from one of the few guys here on SRP who have excellent and consistent track records in expert razor sharpening

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Originally Posted by jleeg

Seems that a lot of us "youngsters" find that the razor's edge grabs whiskers. We wonder: was it honed properly, is it my technique, improper prep, did I strop with too much pressure or enough or on the right surface. With no experience to draw from....how do we really know the reason?

In my own case, I have de shaved for years and have the preshave ritual down....near boiling water, scuttle, great soaps and creams, brushes, preshave stuff...

And while the de glides, the sr catches on my toughest whisker spots.

So, I have ordered another sr...from a reliable source and fellow SRP member. Armed with a few passable shaves (and thanks again to you all for encouraging me to keep at it) I will use it out of the box and compare. I figure if this doesnt grab, then I can eliminate technique as the main culprit. I'll strop carefully, and if it grabs on subsequent shaves...can I assume its my stropping?' Hoping this process...and my further reading here...helps me understand the role of these variables. Short of buying another sr or personal instruction, are there better ways? Comments, suggestions welcomed.

Jim

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Does the razor pull in the easy to shave places? For example, under the sideburns or high on the cheek? If not, then it probably is more about technique and tactile ability. Keep at it. It just takes time. :)

Jordan

Rather than rationalizing the process, I would focus on getting comfortable shaving and letting these variables take care of themselves. You already know the role of each in shaving based on your description of the process. One thing to help the process is to keep expectations on the low side. It is hard to get excellent shaves with a straight after only a few tries and in some cases, after many. Try incremental shaving (start shaving the easy parts of your face first and later expand as confidence builds) to avoid disappointment from poor results. Keep your chin up and keep shaving.

Al raz.

Well said Al Raz.

Jordan

i think the whole point of only doing the sideburn area when you first start is to get the feel of the blade and how it cuts, how much pressure, what angle, etc. that being said, i think i lasted like 3 shaves and then thought "well i'll just try these other areas". whether i'm worse off or better off for it i don't know, but it seems like there are a lot of other newbs who do the same thing as i did.

patience is a big part of any learning process, i learned that the hard way i guess, but i learned it in the end. so i guess everyone is going to learn to shave differently. there are some guys who are getting decent full shaves after a month of shaving with an SR. it took me a lot longer then that.

the key is to eliminate as many variables as possible. it sounds like that is exactly what you are doing jleeg. so good job and keep at it.:bow and keep asking questions, i also learned early on that the guys in these forums have a lot of patience for newbs, and don't mind answering questions at all.

I'll be interested to hear what you think of shaving with your second shave ready razor.

I just started shaving with a straight about 2 weeks ago, after shaving with a DE for about 2 months. I had/have my prep/lather/etc down pat. I bought a shave ready razor in the classifieds, lathered up and had at it. My first thought was that I couldn't believe how much it was pulling. I had started (obviously?) on my cheeks, downward, WTG, and it was just dragging and pulling like mad. I really thought it would/should just kind of glide. I ended up trying all different angles, pressures, etc, on both cheeks and it just kept pulling more than I would have thought.

Around the same time I had ordered some hones and some ebay razors, as I was very very interested in cleaning and honing them up (learning along the way) and so I picked the best of the razors I ordered, cleaned it up, honed it following all of the information I found here, and just for kicks I tried it the next day. It shaved like a dream. It glided much much smoother, and I was able to do WTG and XTG on my whole face pretty easily. I was really wondering whether or not my "shave ready" razor was the problem. The next day, I ended up honing up another ebay razor, hoping for the same results as my second shave, but this one tugged and dragged as bad or worse than the shave ready razor I bought here. The next day, after posting about my problems and getting some responses, I tried that first razor again, the one that I bought that was "shave ready" from the classifieds. This time it shaved just fine. Maybe not *quite* as good as the one I honed that I loved, but definitely very good and much much better than the first time I used it. It must have been either a case of technique or expectations that caused such a poor result the first time? I'm really not sure? Maybe poor stropping technique that actually ruined the edge the first time, but my stropping technique improved in the mean time and actually corrected the edge? Either way, it seems similar to what you experienced, so I'm curious to hear if another razor is all you need

I don't know what I would have done if the first razor was my only razor? It would have been a lot harder for me to get started I think, if for no other reason than my perception of how it shaved and how dull I (unknowingly) thought it was. I probably would have ended up either sending it out to a honemeister or buying another sr razor as you did. I think having two "shave ready" razors is a good idea when starting out. It helps to keep your expectations in line, and really buckle down on your technique.

A sage piece of advice I once read when I first started to shave with a straight razor. Comfort is more important than closeness. It's better to start with a shallower angle then too great of an angle. Too great will tend to tear the whiskers out. As an additional recommendation, start with just the area your sideburns and jawline, and WTG only. As you become more comfortable with manipulating the blade in your hand, your angles, and the feel against your face you can add more facial areas, as well as XG and AGT strokes. Take your time. You are not being tested. Hey, I added new areas and techniques only on the weekends when I wasn't under any time constraints to get to work, and I could take the time to get it right.

Facial prep is just as important because short changing good prep work will have very painful results.

Hope this helps...:gl:

Forgive me if this stuff has already been covered... I only read the OP before posting this.

First off, I gotta say, with all sincerity: If you are not getting as close and as comfortable of a shave with your straight as you are getting with your DE, you are either doing something wrong with your technique, or your straight isn't sharp enough. I can't stress this point enough. A proper straight shave, for me, at least, is capable of shaving me *closer* and *more comfortable* than a DE or a cartridge.

Keeping that point in mind, it's just a matter of trouble shooting what's wrong. IMO, most new guys have two problems in common most of the time; they use too high of an angle on the straight, and their blade simply isn't sharp enough.

My abbreviated list of noob problems that I had:

1. Pressure. Don't use any. If you are having to use pressure to shave, your blade isn't sharp enough.

2. Re-shaving. One pass through fresh cream. And only one pass. Don't go back over skin you just shaved without putting down a layer of fresh cream. You'll only end up with killer razor burn if you shave the same place without fresh lube.

3. Angle. You want the spine of the razor as close to your skin as you can. Really concentrate on this. It's the major contributor to razor burn.

4. Blade sharpness. I'd be willing to bet that 99% of new guy blades aren't sharp enough. Either get a blade professionally honed, or get a shavette. Both are good for comparing how sharp your razor is to how sharp it should really be.

5. Keep the pressure along the edge constant. Don't apply more pressure to the toe or heel than the rest of the blade. This is especially important if you're using a spike point.

6. Don't rush. If you don't have the time available to do a proper, unrushed straight shave, don't. Grab your DE and get to work.

Do what you can to eliminate variables. For example, you honestly have no point of reference as to how sharp your blade is unless you either have a professionally honed blade or a shavette. Using either one of these will eliminate blade sharpness as a possibly problem. Getting rid of that variable is most of the battle.

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We wonder: was it honed properly, is it my technique, improper prep, did I strop with too much pressure or enough or on the right surface. With no experience to draw from....how do we really know the reason?

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This is a totally valid question. Although it would be hard
to answer it definitively, even using the method you just
described, I think it's a good start. Let us know how the
shave goes with the unstropped shave-ready razor, I have
a feeling that you might still feel some pulling. In that
case, just keep shaving! Aim for comfort, and the close-
ness will come.

- Scott

Regarding blade sharpness. I like many here bought 2 shave ready razors. One new Dovo made shave ready by Lynn and one Double Arrow made shave ready by Ken. I was totally new at this shaving thing when I started using the SR razors. My technique was all over the place and my stropping was just as weak as my technique. That was over 2 months ago and at least 60 shaves with a straight. One problem as I see it is that a newbie right out of the gate has a really hard time appreciating the blade made shave ready because of poor technique And by the time the technique improves sufficiently the blade may not be shave ready any more, due to stropping or banging or who knows what. So what's my point? I think that it may be wise for a new str8 shaver to start with a shave ready razor and after 2-3 months or longer when other factors are lining up either get that razor re honed to shave readiness or get another shave ready razor. It will IMHO be a better comparison after a suitable shaving time than when you first start.
To site an example of what happened to me over the weekend. I have been honing a few used razors for the past couple months. I really thought that I was making the razors sharp. Last week I purchased a RS microscope and started looking at the blades. 3 were almost passable, IE without major chips, the other 4 that I have been shaving with were scary.:gaah:. I re honed from the bevel setting stage one of my favorites, A Tennis razor. I worked on the 1200 grit DMT until I could see no chips or irregularities at 60x mag. I finished with the Norton 4k/8k progression and then the Chinese 12k to polish. Stropped on leather about 70x and shaved. OMG! I have never had the blade so smooth on my face and the shave was very clean and smooth. (I still get nicks tho). Now was this blade that I honed any better than the 2 shave ready blades that I purchased early on, probably no. I am not a honemeister. Did my shaving technique improve over the past couple months? Probably so.

Rediscovery along the journey is a great thing.

Happy Shaving!

Mark

Great post, Mark. Excellent points that I sure hadn't thought of before.

I would give my right arm to eliminate the term "shave-ready". Instead I would apply the term "strop-ready".

If you believe, as I do, that a razor's edge is actually applied with a strop and not by honing then you can see lots of opportunities for the classic problem of "but it's supposed to be shave-ready". Really? How did it get from honed to shave-ready? In the mail? Did the postman strop it for you? No, probably not.

I was reading an instructionable (sic) on knife honing (to a level of shave-readiness) yesterday and it said to oil a leather belt and strop the knife on the oiled leather for "as long as your patience would allow". I thought that was funny, and yet, deeply important.

Yes, honed blades are not necessarily stropped. There is also little evidence to suggest that a blade stropped on Monday and mailed to me arriving on Thursday is still "shave-ready". If it is its probably only good for a few shaves.

Notice how often we have new members say a blade was great for the first few shaves?

Woops! Looks like I replied to a deleted post . . . oh well. I'll leave the reply here anyway.

Sorry Alan! I realized I had not read the post you referenced :)

I was wondering why shave ready doesn't imply having been stropped, but now I understand what you were driving at, thanks

No problem Sir! I'm sure most find me arrogant enough to reply to my own post already! :o

OK , heres what happened to me, I bought a razor shave ready and the first time I used it I thought this sucks. The second time I used it I did not have a strop and thought this sucks even more. So I then I somehow found a small rough spot in my blade so I had it honed , I went home and used it not knowing I had to strop it, and again it sucked. So then I found out that I had to strop it even after honing and when I did that I had a great shave, no pulling or tugging. Now Im stropping everytime I shave and it's great, I just love the way it feels when I feel the razor slicing through my beard, I love the sound it makes. It's just great, God I feel like shaving now.

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Originally Posted by Alraz

Rather than rationalizing the process, I would focus on getting comfortable shaving and letting these variables take care of themselves. You already know the role of each in shaving based on your description of the process. One thing to help the process is to keep expectations on the low side. It is hard to get excellent shaves with a straight after only a few tries and in some cases, after many. Try incremental shaving (start shaving the easy parts of your face first and later expand as confidence builds) to avoid disappointment from poor results. Keep your chin up and keep shaving.

Al raz.

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Well put. I'm having all these "common newbie experiences" yet I am enjoying the process. My expections are low in that I know it will take time to master the technique but every shave I learn something new and every shave is a pleasure. I've only been at it 4 months now but it has changed my morning shave from what I do to before I leave the house to how I have time to myself, work towards mastering a skill, and, and, and I don't know... Its just alot of fun and my mornings are a lot less stressful.
Dannyr:tu

Lots of great info here. I have many of the same problems as jleeg. I 1have altered my schedule to showering and shaving at night. I find it easier to spend the extra time learning this art. It amazes me how much one little thing can affect your shave. For example, today I decided to soak my brush in hot water from a tea kettle for about 3-5 minutes before lathering. This made a huge difference, it made the shave 10 times better than just running it under hot tap water.

The main point I am trying to make is to make sure you have enough time set aside to learn and enjoy it. Continue what you are doing and make sure to keep asking questions. Remember, all great things get better with time.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I would give my right arm to eliminate the term "shave-ready". Instead I would apply the term "strop-ready".

If you believe, as I do, that a razor's edge is actually applied with a strop and not by honing then you can see lots of opportunities for the classic problem of "but it's supposed to be shave-ready". Really? How did it get from honed to shave-ready? In the mail? Did the postman strop it for you? No, probably not.

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I'll second that motion. Stropping is King.

....I have learned a lot from my few experiences. The sage advice you experienced guys have given is sinking in.... A healthy combination of reading, watching, doing...repeat, repeat, repeat...

Today I am at work sporting my first ever shave that was entirely produced by the sr!! Feedback is starting to reach my brain.....from the strop, from the feel on my face, differences in approach on the tough spots.......

Cant wait to get up in the morn! And to think, about a week ago I posted my first thread about throwing my stuff in the trash can!
Jim

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

I would give my right arm to eliminate the term "shave-ready". Instead I would apply the term "strop-ready".

If you believe, as I do, that a razor's edge is actually applied with a strop and not by honing then you can see lots of opportunities for the classic problem of "but it's supposed to be shave-ready". Really? How did it get from honed to shave-ready? In the mail? Did the postman strop it for you? No, probably not.

I was reading an instructionable (sic) on knife honing (to a level of shave-readiness) yesterday and it said to oil a leather belt and strop the knife on the oiled leather for "as long as your patience would allow". I thought that was funny, and yet, deeply important.

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Not to be disagreeable, but just calling it as I experienced it, Here is a post I made back in the end of September which is relevant to the above statement. OTOH, as I typed the last sentence it occurred to me that Lynn probably stropped the three razors mentioned in my linked post after he honed them.

So rather then disproving your theory my experience may reinforce it (if the assumption that Lynn stropped the three razors is correct). In this post back in August I "finally did the parlor trick" and that was through stropping after honing. I have your thread "Interesting article" in my subscribed threads and the fourth post down with mparker relating his experience with improving the edge via stropping had been the lead for my subsequent practice. That is how I 'did the parlor trick'.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Yes, honed blades are not necessarily stropped. There is also little evidence to suggest that a blade stropped on Monday and mailed to me arriving on Thursday is still "shave-ready". If it is its probably only good for a few shaves.

Notice how often we have new members say a blade was great for the first few shaves?

Woops! Looks like I replied to a deleted post . . . oh well. I'll leave the reply here anyway.

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Here is where my experience with the three pre-honed blades differs from your statement above. They arrived sharp and the first time I shaved with them I did not strop before the shave. As noted above, assuming Lynn stropped them after honing, if that proves anything it is that they sat on a vendor's shelf and traveled through the mail remaining 'shave ready'.

So far they have each been used for four or five shaves and are still 'cutting it' (pun intended). Of course I have been stropping them before and after each shave (other then the first shave)_giving them 50 round trips on linen and lately 30 on leather (used to do 50 & 50) before the shave and 20 on horse post shave. No touch ups with paste on these yet.

Geez we take this stuff seriously , don't we ? (speaking for myself)