Is it too difficult?

Here is something I posted on another forum in response to someone that felt that straight shaving was difficult, perhaps too difficult to bother with:

I thought you guys might like it, since we've almost all been there.

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I would theorize that the process is actually pretty easy. Suprisingly so. The big problem is that we're all stuck decribing the process in text and video and tactile feel is probably essential.

Honing is something that you shouldn't worry about because you'll probably never buy a used razor off ebay. You should get a "shave-ready" or honed razor from somewhere and then all you're doing is "updating" the edge. Its simple. Easy. 6-10 light strokes on a barber hone, 8K stone, .5 paste; or perhaps 20 passes on a 12K stone. No pressure, light even strokes, equal on both sides and your done for a few months. This assumes that the blade was not honed with tape.

Stropping requires simply holding the strop out tight enough that it doesn't sag and not using too much pressure. Follow any stropping you do with a few very, very light passes. About 30 passes with a touch of pressure to draw out the edge, followed by a few passes that are extrememly light to polish the drawn out edge. You must use that order for the process.

I find the maintenence of my straight razor MUCH easier than trying to order blades off the internet for a DE.

The big, big, problem that beginners have is that they are afraid of damaging the edge, or they actually do damage the edge because they don't know what they are doing. Damage is usually simply dulling the edge a little. That's it. Just a little dulling and with a simple barber hone its easily correctible. All you have to do is think about geometry. Don't dull the edge with any cross oriented honing or stropping, nor dull the edge with any shaving at angles greater than 30 degrees. Once you stop dulling it, your golden. From there if things aren't working out then you sharpen the blade with the hone, and smooth it out with the strop. But you must get to the point where your comfortable trying to sharpen it. If you think you've overhoned it just do some circular strokes and start over in a smooth x pattern.

In case I'm not being clear . . . the average beginner is spending most of his time incorrectly using or maintaining his blade and dulling it slightly; often. This leads to frustration, which leads to lots of frustrated sounding initial threads posted on here.

The key is to never try and shave with it until you've tested the edge with your thumb pad. Wet your thumb pad for 30 seconds and then lightly touch your thumb pad down on the edge. The skin should break. Its that simple. Don't move your thumb at all, just downward movement, very light touch. If the skin doesn't break, its not sharp enough to cut a whisker. Your close, but not close enough. Shaving at the point prior can be accomplished but will lead to bad habits like using too much pressure.

Then on to shaving which is just a matter of going slow, being patient and being deliberate without using pressure (which if you follow all the above advice you should be able to achieve).

In Summary:
- Learn to update a blade; trust the spine geometry and use light strokes on a high grit stone and keep at it
- Learn to strop correctly; and continue to do so until it passes a thumb pad test or test shaves very easily
- Don't keep dulling it and trying to shave
- Dont' be afraid to try and improve it, you won't mess it up unless you fail to keep it flat or use a knife hone instead of a razor hone. Paste will work on a flat surface too.
- Shave slowly and deliberately.

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Your post (probably because of the context) mostly refer to maintenance of the straight rather than "straight shaving" itself ans I agree completely. you can see it in the amount of threads in each of the categories here at SRP, a lot of people are more concerned with the sharpness of their razors than anything else. This can become an obsession for some. The problem is maximized when you are a newbie because you do not know the reason why you are obtaining less than satisfactory results. This obsession reminds me of fishing: very often, fishermen and women are more concerned with their rods and reels than other aspects of fishing that are equally or more important... And just like you said, this often leads to frustration. People, especially new users, should focus on comfort rather than closeness and devote more attention to other areas of shaving than the razor itself.

When I tell people about the benefits of straight razor shaving, the most common reaction I get is something like: "what if I cut my throat?" I am sure that this has to do with the fact that you were posting in a wet shaving forum. A few people find shaving with a straight too labor intensive to even try, or focus on the initial cost of the equipment, rather than "potential" long term rewards. I use the word "potential" because the vast majority of people that post here, including myself, do end up spending more money than it is "required" (whatever makes people happy). This is another obsession that seem to make people turn to Ebay as a quick fix, one that rarely works.... ;-) I have found is that straight razor shaving does not save me time, effort or money, but it makes me incredibly happy. This is why I do it ;-).

Al raz.

Nice post. Lot of good stuff in there.

Great post Alan... :y

I think you're right. As for myself, I'm more afraid of damaging myself, than the razor! :rofl2:

I had a question about this post. You mention shaving at an angle higher than 30 Degrees can dull the blade on the razor. This confuses me because I have seen videos on SRP That shavers use a very high angle on their ATG pass. Like in XMAN's video. I just started doing this also, since I Thought it was okay, and I get a closer shave with a more aggressive blade angle. Should I Stop doing this ASAP?

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I had a question about this post. You mention shaving at an angle higher than 30 Degrees can dull the blade on the razor. This confuses me because I have seen videos on SRP That shavers use a very high angle on their ATG pass. Like in XMAN's video. I just started doing this also, since I Thought it was okay, and I get a closer shave with a more aggressive blade angle. Should I Stop doing this ASAP?

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In my understanding of more agressive angle it is a smaller angle 10-20 degrees, but that's IMO.

I mean in seeing ATG passes on videos where the razor is near 45 degrees and scrapping upward on the neck, etc.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I mean in seeing ATG passes on videos where the razor is near 45 degrees and scrapping upward on the neck, etc.

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going to look at video now thanks

I mean in seeing ATG passes on videos where the razor is near 45 degrees and scrapping upward on the neck, etc.


Edit: site was acting whacky. Didn't mean to double post.

Double post . . . yea it is acting funny today.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I had a question about this post. You mention shaving at an angle higher than 30 Degrees can dull the blade on the razor. This confuses me because I have seen videos on SRP That shavers use a very high angle on their ATG pass. Like in XMAN's video. I just started doing this also, since I Thought it was okay, and I get a closer shave with a more aggressive blade angle. Should I Stop doing this ASAP?

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No, I'm not suggesting you change what works at all. If it works have at it, but if that means you strop and hone more often, no big deal either.

I use a low angle first, then a slightly higher angle on the second pass. Just as close, far less damage. I use 20 degrees then 30-35.

Once you push out past 45 degrees though you may cause dulling. Out past 45 degrees though you end up with a lot of bevel geometry/honing/pressure variations that make it hard to predict edge damage, including whisker and prep issues.

Obviously, this is meant as a guide but I would not recommend larger deviations from what it is shown in the graph, particularly when you are starting out with a straight:

Advanced shaving techniques for the straight razor - Straight Razor Place Wiki

I find myself going back to this graph every so often.


Al raz.

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Originally Posted by Alraz

... People, especially new users, should focus on comfort rather than closeness and devote more attention to other areas of shaving than the razor itself. ...

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I completely agree with Alraz. I'm about 3 mos into str8 shaving. In December, I decided to quit obsessing about BBS shaves and concentrate on a comfortable shave. A comfortable shave looks good and feels good, even if it's not BBS. As I gained confidence with my str8s, the BBS portion of my face grew until I was regularly obtaining a BBS shave all over my face, even though my goal is comfort, not BBS.

Shave for comfort and BBS will follow.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I had a question about this post. You mention shaving at an angle higher than 30 Degrees can dull the blade on the razor. This confuses me because I have seen videos on SRP That shavers use a very high angle on their ATG pass. Like in XMAN's video. I just started doing this also, since I Thought it was okay, and I get a closer shave with a more aggressive blade angle. Should I Stop doing this ASAP?

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I would . Shaving at a steep angle is a good way to get cut , not to mention razor burn . An experenced straight shaver , who knows how to shave can get away with it , but I don't reccomend it for a newb to try . I can tell you from my own experence that a steep angle , along with too much pressure will not only dull your blade , it can also do damage to your face .

Nice post AFDavis!
Lots of good information.

Good one Alan, I have to agree with you here. We've heard you
say most of this stuff before over the years and it's all as true
now as it ever has been.

- Scott

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

Wet your thumb pad for 30 seconds and then lightly touch your thumb pad down on the edge. The skin should break.

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A quick question:

It sounds like this is a test one does after stropping, right? We're testing whether the blade is ready to start shaving. That is, this isn't a honing test: specifically, it's not the same as the "thumb pad test" that folks do to test their honing, where the thumb pad is passed lightly across the edge for a "tingly" feel.

Thanks for a great post. Finding ways to simplify the "message" for novice shavers is a great practice.

With everyone talking about the proper shaving angle I have to wonder, how many people have a protractor in their shaving kit? I just try to keep the spine as close to my skin as I did on my last good shave. I don't have enough hands to hold the razor, strech my skin and hold the protractor at the same time.

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Originally Posted by ndw76

With everyone talking about the proper shaving angle I have to wonder, how many people have a protractor in their shaving kit? I just try to keep the spine as close to my skin as I did on my last good shave. I don't have enough hands to hold the razor, strech my skin and hold the protractor at the same time.

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Maybe it is because I worked as a carpenter and an ironworker (oil & water:)) in my younger days but if someone says a 90 or a 45 degree angle I can see that in my minds eye immediately. How easy it is, for me anyhow, to translate that into visualizing a 30 degree angle especially when we are talking seeing the blade against the skin in the mirror. :shrug:

I just wanted to know if using a high angle would ruin my blade's sharpness. I guess I will lower it a bit. I only use a high angle when going ATG on the neck and under my chin, not for the whole shave, don't misunderstand what I meant. My facial hair is very corse and I have been shaving since SIXTH grade. It also growths flat against my skin, making it hard for the blade to get under it sometimes. I think I need to try the stretching technique where you stretch the hair upward so it stands up.

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Originally Posted by deepweeds

A quick question:

It sounds like this is a test one does after stropping, right? We're testing whether the blade is ready to start shaving. That is, this isn't a honing test: specifically, it's not the same as the "thumb pad test" that folks do to test their honing, where the thumb pad is passed lightly across the edge for a "tingly" feel.

Thanks for a great post. Finding ways to simplify the "message" for novice shavers is a great practice.

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It is the same exact test. Now, some opinion perhaps, but the TPT should be done after stropping only. This version of the TPT eliminates the worry over damage to your thumb by movement on a sharp blade. The "sticky" feeling described by the TPT process is due to the break of the first layer of skin. Thus, if you become attuned to the break itself there is no longer a need to search for the sticky feeling that it creates.

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Originally Posted by AFDavis11

It is the same exact test. Now, some opinion perhaps, but the TPT should be done after stropping only. This version of the TPT eliminates the worry over damage to your thumb by movement on a sharp blade. The "sticky" feeling described by the TPT process is due to the break of the first layer of skin. Thus, if you become attuned to the break itself there is no longer a need to search for the sticky feeling that it creates.

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Far be it for me to disagree with someone of your experience Alan on what the TPT is or is not but ...... I was under the impression that the TPT did not break the skin when done properly ? When I do the TPT I look for the edge to grab my skin. Of course if it does not my TP slides and I have a dull edge.

I also think that the amount of callus on the fingertips may have something to do with it. Some of my pursuits keep a layer of callus on my hands including my fingertips and that may account for my not breaking the skin, or perhaps I am breaking through the first layer and not realizing it ? I cannot see a break so the only other option is I am not doing the test correctly ?

So I was pondering whether breaking the skin on my callused thumb pad was necessary and whether I was performing the TPT right and a light bulb went on. I looked at my thumb pad with an eye loupe and it looked like a well plowed field. :gaah: So I am apparently doing the TPT right in that I am breaking through the first layer of skin. Thanks again Alan for the useful post, as yours usually are. :tu

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Originally Posted by ndw76

With everyone talking about the proper shaving angle I have to wonder, how many people have a protractor in their shaving kit? I just try to keep the spine as close to my skin as I did on my last good shave. I don't have enough hands to hold the razor, strech my skin and hold the protractor at the same time.

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I agree that angles are difficult to judge, however, some angles are fairly easy, e.g., 45, 90, and 180 degrees. I can visalize 45 degrees and know that half of 45 degrees is less than 30 degrees, so that is the angle I use. Also, because the angle of the blade is difficult to see, I use the scales as an extensioin of the blade to measure my angle.

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

So I was pondering whether breaking the skin on my callused thumb pad was necessary and whether I was performing the TPT right and a light bulb went on. I looked at my thumb pad with an eye loupe and it looked like a well plowed field. :gaah: So I am apparently doing the TPT right in that I am breaking through the first layer of skin. Thanks again Alan for the useful post, as yours usually are. :tu

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Your welcome! Thanx for taking the extra step to see what I meant. Your always welcome to disagree though.

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Originally Posted by Disburden

I had a question about this post. You mention shaving at an angle higher than 30 Degrees can dull the blade on the razor. This confuses me because I have seen videos on SRP That shavers use a very high angle on their ATG pass. Like in XMAN's video. I just started doing this also, since I Thought it was okay, and I get a closer shave with a more aggressive blade angle. Should I Stop doing this ASAP?

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Those places where you observe a greater than 30º angle going on is likely where I'm preparing for the blade to go over the round of my chin or something like that and the angle is set for a little further around the curve where the whiskers still need cutting. If you observe closely, none of that shave is done over 30º.

X

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Originally Posted by JimmyHAD

Maybe it is because I worked as a carpenter and an ironworker (oil & water:)) in my younger days but if someone says a 90 or a 45 degree angle I can see that in my minds eye immediately. How easy it is, for me anyhow, to translate that into visualizing a 30 degree angle especially when we are talking seeing the blade against the skin in the mirror. :shrug:

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Jimmy,

I was laying out a walkway over some duct work one day and playing with my square and a trig table chanced upon the 7/12 pitch is just about a perfect 30 degrees. So now I shave with a rafter square. :roflmao

I've always thought I needed a plumb bob hanging off my ear. Afterall you can't declare something 30 degress until you really know where zero is! :)

Alan, I'm surprised you haven't come to the most obvious solution to this problem, or you may have been too careful learning to shave with a straight razor.
The ear itself is supposed to serve as a plumb-bob. May be yours is still too attached though, you need it to hang on a really thin strip of skin so that the gravity can do its work....