barber hone grit equivalent

I recently purchased two barber hones. One is a Nox-All and the other is a Pickering's special (er something like that). Just wondering what their grit equivalent is. Are they like a 4K or something?

I also have purchased some old razors. One is a Gurrat and I've forgotten what the other one is from the time I looked at it in the bathroom to the time I got here. Both are made in the US and do not show up on the WIKI's do not buy list so...I bought them, nicks, spots and all.

I've successfully shaved with both after some experimentation with the Tri-Hone system I have and a barber's hone. They seem to shave okay but I've yet to experience the thrill of getting the blade to pass an HHT as many describe here. I can put a hair against the blade and sometimes, if I hold my head just right, it will "pop". Okay, that's a bit of an exaggeration. I can get it to "pop", just not every time. More like a third of the time.

The Tri-Hone comes with 1K Arkansas stone, and two more stones that are more aggressive. I used all three of them, in succession from aggressive to 1K, to work out some nicks in the razors I bought. Following what I digested from the WIKI and some YouTube videos. Then I used the barber hone to get the blade to the keenness (if that's a word) they are at now (if they are even at that level).

Anyway...after doing all that work I've been thinking about improving the process. One of the things I thought about getting was something in 4K / 8K (as is commonly recommended here) but I don't know if my barber hone is already in that grit range. If so then I probably do not need another stone.

Thanks!

barber hones are different until someone doesn't test cannot say what grit aproximately it has.The best thing you can do go head buy norton 4/8k and have less trouble.

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Originally Posted by hi_bud_gl

barber hones are different until someone doesn't test cannot say what grit aproximately it has.The best thing you can do go head buy norton 4/8k and have less trouble.

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I think I answered my own question. I went back to the WIKI and found:
Hones - comparison table - Straight Razor Place Wiki
on which it lists the barber hone as 12K. I'm sure there is some variance from hone to hone but it's at least 10K most likely.
So, that matches up with my honing experience because I had to do about 300 laps with the barber hone after the 1K hone. I need something as a go between. Or, like you said, get a norton.

Thanks all. I'll post again to tell what happens.

I'm pretty sure you've already figured out not all barber hones are alike. The Nox-All is very similar to a Swaty--hard and fine. I think I remember a Pickering being the same but I'm not certain. Anyway, there is a lot of variation between the barber hones and they certainly have differences in both grit size and degree of hardness, but somehow almost all of them manage to do a serviceable job of putting an edge on a razor. The only exception I have ever seen is the Champion barber hone. All it will do is chew up your edge.

You're definitely going to want to put something between your Arkansas stone and your barber hone. Good luck with it.

I did an experiment one time going directly from the 1k to a barber hone and found that while it is possible to do make your razor sharp enough to shave with you get a much more comfortable shave (with a lot less laps on the hones) if you do the whole progression of 1k, 4k, 8k, barber hone.

If you really want (or need) to make that large of a jump in grit it works best with a double bevel. Set the bevel with 1k then put on a couple layers of tape and use the barber hone.

Hmmmm... interesting note about the tape. It's like a micro-bevel or something. Nice tip!

I went out and purchased a Norton Water stone Starter kit. It comes with a 220/1000, 4000/8000 and a flattening stone. Plus two pretty blue boxes and some worthless pamphlets.

I immediately tried them out (without flattening) and that did not work. So I flattened the 220 and worked down a smile on the blade. Then I went to 1000 but wasn't working again so I flattened that stone. Etcetera, etcetera.

To make a long story short I've been through a 220 through barber hone progression once, no HHT.
flattened the blade on the razor because it had a bit of a smile (I did this by using the 220 with blade perpendicular to hone but not side to side motion) ... anyway...
I re-flattened all stones including the barber hone, went back through the whole progression, no HHT.
Tried to shave with it and it would _almost_ shave.
Went back to 220 for 5 laps, 1000 until I could shave hair off my belly like a hot knife through butter, then to the 4000 and the edge seemed to disappear.
Flattened the 4000 AGAIN and found it had a high spot.
Went back to 4000 until blade felt like it was going to cut my thumb pad
went to 8000 and it polished up the end real nice and all but still no HHT.
Stropped a while and one spot on the razor would pass HHT but it was a small spot compared to the size of my face.

Tried the water stone progression in the wiki (not the aggressive one). Did not improve.
Re-flattened all stones
Went back to 1000 for 21 laps, 4000 for 21 laps and then did a modified progression of 4000 and 8000.
The edge looks very nice but when I try the HHT the hair just kind of skips sideways down the blade.

I'm a little frustrated and have some questions.

1. How often do I need to change the tape. Seems like about 40 laps on a 1K and the tape is somewhat worn down.
2. Should it be able to pass HHT on the 1K or the 4K or the 8K?
3. Did I ruin my barber hone by flattening it with the flattening stone that came with the Norton kit?
4. Seems like a blade must have a small amount of smile to be correct because I took out the smile and by the time I was done it was back just a little bit. Thoughts?
5. The razor I am using is from like 1940 or something. Gullat razor from Massachusetts. Seems like it would be a good blade...I don't know. Anyone know? I do know that I have a JA Henckels kitchen knife and the steel in that thing makes me want to hone it up and shave with it. So, in comparison to the "feel" of the steel in the 1940's razor I'm thinking maybe the razor isn't that great.

Well I'll try shaving with it again and see how sharp it is. Shaving with a somewhat dull razor takes the relaxation out of it.

I suspect the problem might be the correction of the smiling blade. If the razor was made with a smiling spine, then you might have problems.

If the spine is straight, the blade was smily because of uneven hone wear or some other reason, I really can't think of any other ones honestly. Anyway, uneven hone wear makes the razor harder to hone, but not impossible. Sounds like thats the problem to me, either smiling spine or uneven hone wear.

The other problem is the way you flattened out the smile and destroyed the bevel. It takes hours to put the bevel back on sometimes when you breadknife the razor. Why is it called breadknifing anyway? Bread knives are sharp....

Your tag says az, if your in the phoenix area and want to stop by, I'll take a look at it. I'm in snobsdale.

oh man, that's some serious experimentation!

ok, first - forget about the 220 hone, you don't need to use it,

second - stop lapping your hones all the time, use a pencil grid to get them flat and that's it. i find that one-two passes of my dmt-ef(1200 grit) over the norton before honing gives me better results, but i consider this a surface prep not lapping

third - hone your razor on the 1000 grit norton with really light touch until it's really sharp, as sharp as the sharpest knife you've come across. if you want use a marker on the bevel to make sure the hone is working at the very edge.

fourth - move to the norton 4k/8k consult the wiki again. do not use the barber hone until you can shave comfortably off the 8k. again, light strokes, x-pattern. use your thumbpad to check the progress on the edge

that's it - it has worked for thousands here, it's bound to work for you too.

The blade has a straight spline or back. I started out pushing the razor straight up and down the stone (flipping at each end). It seemed to be getting a frown that way so I switch to an X stroke and ended up with a small smile. I think it might actually just be the width of the bevel is larger in the center and that may make it look like it has a smile.

Anyway...

I'm in Stillwater Oklahoma. Wish I had some peeps here to discuss with but haven't found any so far. I've been reading around here and I probably should not have bread-knifed the blade. Probably should have used the stroke where you hold the blade at an angle from heel to toe on the stone. I'll remember that because I spent a LOT of time getting back an edge.

That's a great tip about the marker on the blade. I've read it a couple times before but I didn't remember it. oops

Yeah the blade was WAY sharp on the 1000 but seemed to not improve much as I went to the 4000 and 8000. I also learned, from several posts so far, that the HHT is a worthless test. That the TPT is much more accurate. Much easier too; I got tired of stopping, scanning for the hair I had near by, trying to pick it up, etcetera. Takes too much time.

I'm going to try and shave with it tonight. Didn't have time last night. I'll re-read the wiki about the 4K and 8K. Thanks for all the tips!!

Well, I was finally able to shave with it. It's been a while since I posted and I think I went back through a progression on the 1K, 4K and 8K...can't remember for sure. What I do know is that after stropping it I had a REALLY GOOD SHAVE!! WOW!

Compared to the shave I had with the same razor off of my other stones, this was BY FAR the best. Even in evaluation against how my face feels with a shave from my favorite disposable blade (which I can work in every direction on my face) the shave came out so smooth I couldn't stop feeling my face.

Grantid it took me a little longer with the straight and I had some problems around the upper lip I was able to do WTG, XTG (in most places) and ATG under my chin and on my cheeks.

Some areas of my face felt like I had no hair at all. Other areas I could feel just a hint of hair but it was really soft.

After a few shaves I might refresh the blade on the barber hone; if the blade starts pulling.

My next two projects are to finish up a 2/8 carbon steel blade to use under my nose and try to fix a bent blade. The 2/8 is already underway. It was a junk blade I bought on ebay. I can tell it used to be like a 4/8 or 5/8 but someone ground it down to get rid of a big chip or something.

Anyway...

I'll post again later.

Glad you are making progress. BTW, a slight smile is a desirable thing in a straight razor. To me anyhow. Stick with that x pattern and do some reading in the SRP Wiki and in the honing archives and you will do alright. :tu