Stropping problems, linen sharper than leather...

Ok so I've been shaving with my straight for about 3 months now and have run into a dilemma...
I was getting progressively worse shaves after starting out. I was told by the retailer that my razor was coming pre-honed and shave ready, just strop and shave. So I did and it was decent for the first month and started getting dull. I decided to get a norton 4k/8k and hone it. After much frustration and several attempts, I got a good edge on the blade with it passing the TPT and HHT. So I stropped and shaved with poor results. I started paying more close attention to ever step. I went back to the hone and got a very nice polished egde using the pyramid scheme, it passed all the tests. I then went 20 laps on the linen strop which made it even brighter and mirror like. Then I did 60 passes on the leather and it looked uneven, dull, and did not pass the TPT or HHT. So I found my culprit, the leather strop, but my question is why??? My stropping technique, I believe, is good on both strops, nice even sound, good draw, light pressure, even contact. (I watched several stropping videos)

So has this happened to anyone else? and what should I do now? Should I buy a better strop?

Here's my equipment in case you need to know:
C'mon Cadillac, 5/8 hollow ground razor
Illinois 127 hanging strop
C&E Nomad combined with mug soap
Nice Badger Brush
Norton 4k/8k stone

Thanks for any help...

I cant say for sure but it sounds like your strop may have been overdressed or you have some gunk on it!
Also, your edge may not be quite there yet! Make sure you have a good bevel and then polish and then strop

I did use strop dressing on it to keep it soft, I live in the desert so its pretty dry. How should I go about cleaning the leather to remove the excess dressing and gunk?

If you live in the desert, could it be that tiny grains of sand blown into the air have settled on the stickiness of the stropdressing?

I would remove excess strop dressing with saddle soap.

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Originally Posted by JMS

I cant say for sure but it sounds like your strop may have been overdressed or you have some gunk it!
Also, your edge may not be quite there yet! Make sure you have a good bevel and then polish and then strop

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I'm not claiming the honing job was excellent, however, it was substantially sharper right off the hone than it was after using the leather strop.

As for the saddle soap, I'm not sure where to get it... is it possible for me to use any household soap or shave soap I have laying around, or will that ruin the strop?

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Originally Posted by pdlson

I'm not claiming the honing job was excellent, however, it was substantially sharper right off the hone than it was after using the leather strop.

As for the saddle soap, I'm not sure where to get it... is it possible for me to use any household soap or shave soap I have laying around, or will that ruin the strop?

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Ive used shave soap but if you want saddle soap try a shoe store that sells leather shoes or a shoe repair shop!

Ok, I just re-honed and did what I would consider a superb job for my skill level. Then I did about 40 laps on the linen, and finished it off with 60 laps on a different leather strop I have. Its a narrower one and I would consider it of lower quality than my 127, but it has never been treated or used. I havent shaved with it yet, but wow the thing glistens like it never has, and the hairs on my arm fall off with ease. I'm looking forward to my next shave...perhaps ATG is in my near future!

Also, I think I have the early signs of RAD!!:eek: I just picked up a vintage TI off ebay that looks like its in good shape, just needs some steel wool, a good bevel and some TLC. A bit expensive, but I just couldn't help myself, plus I really want a TI for some reason...

I personally suspect the lack of a finishing stone, but thats just me. Could be your strop.

Theres no sand in our homes in the desert..... We do have vaccum cleaners.:rofl2:

Yeah, you need to get some HAD. :chop:

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Originally Posted by Leighton

I personally suspect the lack of a finishing stone, but thats just me. Could be your strop.

Theres no sand in our homes in the desert..... We do have vaccum cleaners.:rofl2:

Yeah, you need to get some HAD. :chop:

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I'm pretty sure its not the lack of a finishing stone, for the simple reason that my razor shaves decent off the linen but gets destroyed by the leather. I'm definitely not arguing against a finishing stone, in fact, I think I might pick me up a coticule or perhaps a shapton 16k... and to think, I started out on this journey with the ambitions of saving money over the fusions...pff, so much for that

What do you mean get some HAD?

Hone addiction disorder. Its right after RAD.

Hmm....get a Tony Miller strop would be my next suggestion. Sounds like a bad strop, contact the seller and try to get a replacement.

I am looking into those Tony Miller strops, they look terrific and I've heard only good things about them, unfortunately he's currently on hiatus. My next investments are a new strop, a finishing stone, and perhaps a dia-sharp 1200 for bevel setting all the ebay blades I start acquiring... oh damn, HAD and RAD, I forsee this hobby becoming expensive...

Don't forget the RRAD. ;) Razor restoration addiction disorder. That is actually pretty cheap comparatively. Only requires $20 worth of sandpaper, $10 polishing compound, old t-shirt and hours and hours of time. Personally, I would stay away from ebay blades. Honestly, from personal experience, they suck up way more time than you think. Way more time. Unless your buying ones for $50+ with zero rust and no pits... to get them to an aesthetically pleasing condition requires many man hours. Many many man-hours.... Yeah, best a line you and other people do not cross lightly. RRAD is the penultimate disorder...

:chop::chop::chop::chop:

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Originally Posted by pdlson

I'm pretty sure its not the lack of a finishing stone, for the simple reason that my razor shaves decent off the linen but gets destroyed by the leather. I'm definitely not arguing against a finishing stone, in fact, I think I might pick me up a coticule or perhaps a shapton 16k... and to think, I started out on this journey with the ambitions of saving money over the fusions...pff, so much for that

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Ignore the calls for HAD. You can get good shaves off the strop, you don't need $$$ finishing stones. Believe me, I've got 'em and don't use them anymore. OTOH I've developed a minor case of RSAD (Razor Strop Acquisition Disorder)....


It sounds like you've got the same quirk as I do. Some leather strops kill my edges very quickly. For me it seems to be correlated with the level of draw - leather strops with a lot of draw like latigo and heavily dressed cowhide (which sounds like describes your Illinois 127) tend to kill the edge, but leather strops with very little draw like horsehide or cordovan will take that linen edge and make it even sharper and smoother.

You might want to invest in a good horsehide strop. You'll find that the horsehide/linen combination was one of the most popular combinations back in the day and are therefore pretty common on ebay. Tony Miller makes some beautiful ones as well, and I can't recommend them enough. My favorite Miller strop is actually a paddle strop with horsehide on one side and canvas on the other.

As usual, I agree with MParker. It took some time for me to learn just how delicate a strop should be treating an edge.

I actually use the traditional method of applying EVVO (Extra Virgin Olive Oil) to my strops to keep them supple and smooth, cutting back on the "draw" appropriately.

I agree with mparker, too. The type of leather definitely has a telling effect. Some latigos seem to dull the edge, some enhance it like you would expect. The suede-type ordinary cowhide always seems to perform very well for me. You just have to lightly abrade the (untreated) surface with very fine (say 600 grit) wet and dry paper to raise a fine knap.

If your other strop works, then use it! No need for another one - unless you really want to treat yourself, of course!

Kees idea sounds likely too - you can''t tell how much fine grit is blowing about in the air, but try and develop a roll of black and white film and hang it up to dry in an unprotected environment and you will know all about dust contamination! If your strop was sticky after dressing and left so that it could have dust settle on it...

Regards,
Neil.

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Originally Posted by pdlson

Ok so I've been shaving with my straight for about 3 months now and have run into a dilemma...
I was getting progressively worse shaves after starting out. I was told by the retailer that my razor was coming pre-honed and shave ready, just strop and shave. So I did and it was decent for the first month and started getting dull. I decided to get a norton 4k/8k and hone it.

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I am going back to the beginning here, before you decided what the problem was....
I realize that you have pretty much decided that a new strop is the answer here, but what changed strop wise from month 1 til now ?????
Seems from reading your post from the beginning, the problem started when you honed the razor yourself. not at all uncommon around these parts...
A Norton 4/8 combo stone is more than capable of getting a previously honed razor back up and running.... but it does take a little practice to do it right...
More strops and finer hones are not the solution to most sharpness problems....
Lynn has a great saying about honing, "less is more", now I know he was referring to lap counts when he said it, but it also applies to getting a razor tweaked and shave ready... The "less" variables you create, the "more" likely you are to solve the problem....

:gl:

Well, today was the test shave day and I have to say now that I'm using my other strop there was a vast improvement, the razor just glided like a champ. I still have work to do on my technique, adding pressure is a hard cartridge habbit to break. But I am definitely convinced the other strop was causing my dullness problems. Here was the procedure I went through today...

Filled scuttle and microwaved 1 minute
Added insert and let heat up
Whipped up a sweet uberlather of C&E Nomad and mug soap
Added the lather and brush to the heated scuttle bowl
HWRX2, Hot towel, Lather face
Stropped on new strop for 50 laps give or take
Refreshed lather and 1 WTG pass
Rinsed, relathered, 10 laps on strop
2nd pass ATG, CWR

Wasn't quite as good as my fusion, I blame my technique, but the razor was definitely more comfortable and shaved whiskers with no pulling.

I'm going to clean the other strop and see if I can try using it again...

Thanks to everyone for all your help... I'll have to try the EVVO idea to limit the drag if cleaning it doesnt help.

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Originally Posted by gssixgun

I am going back to the beginning here, before you decided what the problem was....
I realize that you have pretty much decided that a new strop is the answer here, but what changed strop wise from month 1 til now ?????

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Well, before I even got the hone, the razor was progressively getting worse and worse. What changed with the strop was that I decided to add strop dressing after about the first week (and I probably used way too much).

That explains it, great to hear yer getting there again....