finishing hones?!

Hi,
I currently finish my razors on a yellow coti, its great pops hairs and all that jazz. But I was thinking of getting something finer to get just that little extra. I have narowed it down to either a chinese 12k or a shapton 16k. I dont mind paying the extra for the shapton if its worth it, any sugestions? Also I keep reading on the sites that sell the shapton that it should only be lapped with the shapton diamond plate. Is this for real as I am loath to dish out more than I spent on the shapton just to keep it flat. Would either sandpaper and glass or a low grit DMT not work just as well as I already have these?
I know this should be in the hones forum but I cant post there so appologies!
So, which should I go for gents?

Thanks,

Nobby

I'm not sure if this answer will strike you as particularly useful since I have no experience of any of the tools you're considering In your post you mention various tests but not the quality of the shave. I finish on a coticule and get a great shave, smooth as silk. If I go to a barber's hone, the edge passes the tests you mention plus the TPT in a way that indicates the blade is sharper but the shave isn't as smooth. Still good and, with some of my razors, a little closer but not as comfortable. This can of course be down to limitations in my technique, both shaving and honing but personally I'm going to hold off on dropping too much extra cash on hones in the pursuit of extra sharpness (for now anyway) and save for extra razors. Perhaps pastes would be another consideration for you. Anyway, hope this is not too useless and I'm sure far more knowledgeable members than me will be able to help (and maybe tell me where I might be going wrong if they think so too).

Yeah I see your point about the coti being sharp enough. But I do have two razors that were finished on a Japanese 10k super stone (by a honemeister) and they are just slightly superior, whether this is just my tecnique or if the extra 2k grit is giving a sweeter edge i dont know. Thats why Im tempted to go with the chines to start with. Dont know much about the shaptons other than the fact I would have to sell my organs on the black market to get a complete set:). Pastes are a no go for me. For some reason I just dull my razors on a pasted strop and end up having to take them back to the coti. I have tried several times and just cant get there. Figured if I can get my straights sharp off the stones then I will just leave the pasted strops for those more skillful than I.

I think you need to examine several issues here. First you really need to work on your honing with what you have including the pasted strops. Buying more hardware won't solve your problem. With the coticule you should be getting a superb edge on your razors. The Chinese is a very slow cutter and won't surpass the coticule.

Once you master what you have and are getting the max from them then you can look towards more if you think you need it.

I'm sure someone else familiar with the other stones will come along with their 2 cents.

I have limited experience in hones beyond 8K. I just have diamond pastes on balsa (great sharpness) and a Dragon's Tongue (smooth but not sharp) so far.

But I think in this range you are not simply improving the edge so much as tuning it to your taste.

You seem to be wanting more sharpness rather than more smoothness. For that reason I think the Shapton 16K might be better for you than the Chinese 12K. :shrug:

But if you already have pastes, try putting them on balsa or a paddle strop. Similar technique to a hone, so might work well for you.

First you can use a DMT 325 to true up a Shapton....
Second the Shapton Sweet 16 is a cutter, in fact probably the fastest cutting finish stone out there...
If you are looking to get a razor sharper?? a high grit finish stone won't help that, at least not the way yer thinking....
A high grit finisher works perfect when you have all the stones below it firing on all cylinders....
It will smooth out the shave, we are talking micons here that you are reaching for, you are barely taking off any metal at all....

well, if you have the scratch i guess there's no much point convincing you otherwise - trying out yourself is the best way to find out.

i'd say go with the shapton. it's far more consistent and will save you from buying the chinese stone and the shapton. i believe these can be lapped on a dmt as well.
the naniwas may be another good option - then you can compare directly against bart's edges off the same stone (not sure if they're more expensive, than shapton,b i think the superstone line is slightly less expensive)

I have both. I used the Chinese 12k for a few months before getting my Shapton 16k. I haven't touched my 12k since (almost a year now). I'd say the 12k should only be considered if you are looking to save money.

Try honing on the coticule and then doing 3 or 4 laps on a pasted strop with Cr0. That's what I do and it works for me.

I want to stay with natural finish stones just because

Im only tossing that out there as there seems to be a great separation between your choices. I want to get a chinastone if i am ever in a city where the WC sells them in house-that's how big a hurry i'm in.


Maybe there is a near native stone that can improve upon the coti as well as cut nearer the shapton (speed fineness) than a chinastone