Japanese Video?

Man, I really wish someone would post a video shaving with a Japanese straight. I am trying to keep to one side of the blade but going with the grain all over my face presents interesting handling issues that I am (slice) trying to figure out (cut) on my own (bleed). I'd like to think I'm pretty good with my hands but there are some nooks and crannies on my right side under the chin that are difficult to clean up without (gash) cheating and using the other side of the blade. I figure there are many ways one can do this, but if I could see someone else go through it I'd understand a lot more.:eek:

I know it's not a Japanese blade, but try using the very last grip I use in my One Handed shave vid. Go to part 2 and skip to the end.

http://straightrazorpalace.com/video...technique.html

X

You just have to go slow and easy. It is difficult and doesn't come easy but I think those of us who use them have managed to learn without killing ourselves. I don't know that there are any easy answers or how to's. You might contact Old School. he's the resident expert on shaving with these.

Check this out:

YouTube - Shaving with a Japanese Non-Folding Feather Razor

+1 on the vid. That is the only one I know of.

xman - I checked out the vid shortly after posting this. I will revisit it a few times before my next attempt.

big - patience is key, no? I have been conversing with old school-he actually sold me the blade I'm using. any tips? I've been also using the blade as a tutor for sharpness and have achieved amazing results on the chinese 12k followed by strop. tools are all lined up, just need skills.

jcd - i've watched that video a lot, but he uses both sides of the blade. Also, he makes faces to get around certain spots. I thought I read that is bad?

Ah sorry, I didn't pay full attention to your post.

I don't think X's move will work with a kamisori as the tang end points to the mirror in his vid.

describing is impossible but here goes ,,,see if any makes sense

one group of ways to hold the razor places the tang on the palm side of the hand. The tang could be at the base of the pinky or on the tip. Your forefinger or middle finger could be on the notch. the differences in angle and length is enough to lessen the % of unreachable places. Moving the rt shoulder back with the elbow up high decreases the percentage more, as will turning your head and shaving more or less blind.

another group of grips is like holding a pencil or paint brush; this really helps keep the rest of the hand from interfacing with your head which is the main limitation of where you can reach or which direction you can go on the right.

The easiest thing for me to do is simply eliminate those directions where the grip is tentative. Anything that i cannot get to wtg, will get another first pass direction(and hopefully only pass).

But hey! maybe your razor is like mine. either side will shave quite well. especially in those places where one feels you really need to turn it over and can use a steeper angle

Just thinking out loud here... surely the edge on a Japanese razor is a "V" shaped meeting of flat surfaces, just like a Western razor. Why can't you use both sides? You might need to use a different angle on one side, but I don't see that as cheating. Excuse my ignorance if I'm missing something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

Just thinking out loud here... surely the edge on a Japanese razor is a "V" shaped meeting of flat surfaces, just like a Western razor. Why can't you use both sides? You might need to use a different angle on one side, but I don't see that as cheating. Excuse my ignorance if I'm missing something.

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Someone please correct me if I am WRONG but a Japanese that I saw the back side was flat and only beveled on front side " \| " Closest visual I could get on keyboard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rajagra

Just thinking out loud here... surely the edge on a Japanese razor is a "V" shaped meeting of flat surfaces, just like a Western razor. Why can't you use both sides? You might need to use a different angle on one side, but I don't see that as cheating. Excuse my ignorance if I'm missing something.

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I believe this is correct in as much as using different angles works. High angle shaving to use both sides is not really a substitute for symmetry, but it does offer an assist in some spots. After all, there is only one edge. we don't shave with the bevels.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OLD_SCHOOL

Japanese razors are hones considerably more on one side than the other, which makes them more or less unusable on both sides. I have tried it once for S&G, it was very unpleasant and painful.

Other opinions is that it is not "traditional" to shave with both sides, but again, that basically comes down to the honing. Some members don't care about the "traditional" effect as much as they do comfort, and proceed to hone their razors exactly as they would a western straight, so they can swao hands, and use both sides of the razor. Whilst that may work in the short term, in the long term they have created a frankenrazor which may not last as long as it would if honed the proper way.

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About the best explanation I can muster up for one sided shaving with these is that if you look at the profile of one of these you will see that the blade is such that one side is canted towards your face and the other is canted away from your face. So someone tell me why you would want to shave with a blade that is canted away from your face. Imagine if you had a typical western straight but something bad happened to it and one edge was bent away from you and the other side was bent towards you. Would you want to shave with it? No you wouldn't you would be demanding your money back thinking its unusable. The point being that with the asymmetrical edge it can be highly specialized and so gives (I think) a superior shave to a western type blade. Sure you can use both sides but its no different than using any tool improperly. It works, maybe not too good but it works.

As far as using one you just have to relearn how to shave again. Start with the simple strokes and then figure how to do the difficult ones where you feel totally clumsy holding a sharp object to your face. heck I've been using these on and off for a few years now and there is this one spot on my neck where I still don't feel too confident. I've never cut myself there but it just doesn't inspire confidence.

I have the same spot on my neck, big! My adam's apple creates a hollow to the right that is just a pain to get at without cheating.

To me, the japanese straight is like a yanagi blade used to slice sashimi. It is chisel ground and ever slightly concave on the back side. I believe this is called kata-ha. This allows for a more acute edge which slices the fish more readily and with less cell damage.
Yanagi are typically honed on the chisel side only, then any burr is removed on the back side. 95% front, 5% back, hypothetically.
So speaking of less cell damage... Why wouldn't a razor be hone in a similar fashion?

The reason it works is similar to using a cabinet makers bench chisel. It is straight forward in application; both sides are used even though it has a single bevel. Bevel up or bevel down are seldom equally applicable, but both are needed as specifics require.

under the nose we can use a steep angle. The cant of the asymmetric design allows a lower angle of approach as opposed to the centered western edge. In other words the plane of the main bevel is more in line to the direction of cut because raising the spine brings the edge on plane with your skin.

This allows the razor to cut; when at the same angle the western grind is more like scraping.

OK I just had the most effortless shave ever! But I didn't use the Japanese straight piece. I used a western Boker razor I paid 25 bucks for at an antique shop. It had some chips in the edge, so I worked them out slowly from my 1k up to the 12k over several days, and some sandpaper to boot the tang. Today I thought I'd be different and use it.
My prep was similar, (anthony's) preshave oil, some (aveda) prelather, hot towls, relather (leatherneck) and GO! I did massage my face first in the shower, never done that before. I've had some recent very frustrating shaves using the japanese razor, and had only places of BBS on my face, occasionally. I was up for something different.
Using the Boker today was totally different indeed! It slid effortlessly through my beard. I had no idea I needed that little pressure before! I have way more BBS surface on my face and I did it quicker, with fewer passes, no nicks, or burn.
I am convinced this has to do with blade geometry. The Boker was tarnished and ugly but still had a very thin edge. The Fujiichi however is very thick, more obtuse by far. Do you suppose when it was made there was much more metal and the edge came to a much smaller angle?
I will use the Boker for a week or so to judge the consistency. Also, my technique will get better, but then I plan to switch back to the Fuji-ichi to see if my touch has improved or if the blade is in fact too obtuse to shave with comfortably.

Thoughts?

Happily BBS,
JP