I was wondering if barbers always disinfect their straight razor blades in between two customers? Hoping some barbers could shed some light. Thanks.
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I was wondering if barbers always disinfect their straight razor blades in between two customers? Hoping some barbers could shed some light. Thanks.
Barbershop came up in the chat a few nights back and from those involved we only knew of shops using Shavettes. They should be using a new blade every time. Those using real straights should also be stropping and disinfecting between. If they aren't disenfecting their razors you can be sure they're not doing their combs and scissors either.
I figure it's basic barber shop policy.
I suppose it's a matter of trust. Just like how you trust the people in the food business to wash their hands. I've heard there is little demand for a shave at a shop these days so if they even have a blade they probably have time to take care of it. Either that or they neglect it for lack of use.
If you are really worried about it and can find a place that uses straights go in with a not-so-close friend, let your wingman get a shave first then watch for the cleaning after. If it doesn't happen ask for it, then don't go back.
In the old days they would use a straight razor and Barbacide to wipe it down. For many years since they have uses straight razors with replaceable blades in most instances if they shave customers at all.
Got a barbershop haircut the other day and while waiting for the owner, Rick, I observed him shave a customers neck with a straight. He doesn't have running water at his station, but had gone to an adjacent room and came out mixing later in a mug. During the brief shave, he wiped the blade once or twice. I didnt see if the last wipe was with barbasol or some disinfectant.
My turn. At the end of the my haircut, Rick asked if I'd like my neck shaved. I did, mostly because I haven't had anyone other person use a straight on me in years. He had an old strop, and gave a few short laps. He took the same razor and did, in short order my neck. Felt fine; was smooth. This was the back of my neck below the hair line where the hair is soft and easily removed. I have contracted no disease.
I told Rick that I hadn't seen many shops that still had strops or straights. He said he no longer does faces because he's out of practice...says you have to do regularly to be good.
Yet, that use of a singal straight on more than one.....
anyway, best to all
Every tool a barber uses on your head should be disinfected. Barbers have UV disinfectant lamps nowadays, and they still use the Barbercide (or Marvycide more commonly. It's the same stuff) jar. Razors are s special case because there is going to be blood in contact with the blade and the blade must be sterilized, or changed between customers. It is assumed that there cuts on the customer even if there are none visible. Nothing used on one customer may be used on another. A shaving brush, a mug, soap, or the strop (the strop may be used on a clean blade, but once the shaving starts, the barber may not re-strop). A disposable is ideal, but the blade must be changed and the handle cleaned as well.
In the old days when it was discovered that germs carried disease, barbers would keep about 20 or so razors and autoclave them after use. Individual customers would have their own mug and brush that the barber would keep at the shop ( mugs would be personalized and there is a pretty active collectors market for them. I think one of our members here is a collector). Stroping a razor with a used blade is considered poor practice.
A sterilized razor is just as effective at preventng the spread of disease as a disposable.
True enough and the same can be said for tattooing needles. We used to inspect the points after use and if they were still good sterilize and reuse the needles. There is nothing wrong with that but in today's world we dispose of them after a single use and each customer gets a new needle. :shrug: They don't want to hear about sterilization working. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by joesixpack
Sorry to hijack the thread but... Jimmy, quick question. As an artist, are you able to sterilize the gun itself? I have always wondered if that is sterilized between uses.? I know it is not a point of contact but is that seran wrap used on the end of it really going to stop all blood spatter from getting on the tattoo gun itself?Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyHAD
Oh the tattoo shops have ultrasound cleaners and autoclaves sometimes.
I'm wondering if the high pH of the soap doesn't actually do the major part on a razor.
I always sanatize my razor between clients.. i use disposeables on clients and sometimes if there are no nicks or anything after a neck shave will use it again (but still wash it and barbercide it between). I never use blades from a face or head shave on another person. And i only use my real razors on people i know personally!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by mg17
the last few barbers ive been to actually had autoclaves.
id imagine they use em
and yea now adays 99 percent of barbers are using feather style razors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joesixpack
just stumbled upon this post mentioning autoclaving for sanitation of razors...
I have been thinking about optimal sterilization for used razors (as most of you have I guess)... the things I would like to add or ask are:
- sterilization is by definition removal or destruction of ALL living agents (bacteria, fungi, viruses etc), one type of sterilization is autoclaving (cca 1,1 atm, 121oC for 15 mins), on the other hand dipping razor in boiling hot water (100oC) is NOT sterilisation
- on the other hand not all microbes are pathogens, in fact fairly few are (statistically speaking), to our luck majority of pathogens are not very resistnat to hursh conditions (temperature, ethanol etc), B. antracis (spores) as someone stated is extremely resistant, but I really don't see why or how would this microorganism come even near a razor (it is soil microorganism) except if someone put it there intentionally or shave an infected horse :D :D so i really wouldn't worry about this one
A question that I have: is autoclaving a razor (steel hardness-wise) acceptable or would these temperatures (121 deg C for 15 mins) weaken the blade??? In my opinion autoclaving would be optimal technique if the blade is not affected by it, plus it would be done very seldom anyways and it can be easily done at home.. another technique in my opinion could be sterilizing with radiation, but this method is not so common and certainly no one has the equipment at home :d
PS. someone mentioned using UV for sterilizing method: do have in mind that UV does NOT penetrate anything on the razor and works only on places where the UV light shines on,.. meaning, pittings, hidden parts of the blade, etchings/engravings, small cracks would probably not be adequately reached, another con might be that UV light might have some effect on the scales (but so would autoclaving :D ), UV light is afaik usually used for surface sterilization (plain, smooth) and eg air or liquid (in thin films) sterilization
Not 100% sure, but i don't think any pathogen or virus can survive more than 24 hours without any human contact. It has never worried me, but if it worries you, a simple wipe down with pure alcohol should kill anything on the razor. As long as you don't share the razor you should be good.
Hello,
I guess this comes down to what you are worried about. There is pretty incontrovertible evidence that the sharing of straight razors in quick succession in areas where there is high rate of blood borne viruses is a not so great thing. Here is a link to a paper about transmission in barber shops in Italy Role of beauty treatment in the spread of parent... [J Med Virol. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI And there are similar things cropping up in other places too Barber shaving and blood-borne disease transmission in developing countries | Khaliq | South African Medical Journal
For the first article you will only be able to read the summary, for the second there is a full paper available if you click the pdf link. Note that these are not places many of you would be getting a straight razor shave from a barber, and (probably) have higher rates of disease within the local community.
Now, if you are worried about flea market finds, then that is a different story. The American Centre for Disease control states the time periods that the various blood bourne viruses can survive outside the body for. CDC DVH - Hepatitis C FAQs for the Public
Disclaimer - this is information available on the internet that I am making people aware of. I am not qualified to advise!!!
@Grazor: I am a microbiologist and am 100% sure that some pathogens can live outside their hosts for a looooooong time, some of course less and some die off pretty quickly, but I wouldn't rely on that, you have to bare in mind that razors (especially old ones, even more if eg covered with rust etc) are fukk of micro niches where a microbe can withstand the effects of antimicrobials etc for much longer periods.
The things that worry me more are viruses aka hiv, hbv etc... hiv dies of fairly quickly, hbv is a bit sturdier and more infectious ...
@Damo: thanks for the articles, got them both, I am actually trying to find the best sterilization method (that I can be 100% sure of) for razors I get on flea markets
I would appreciate if someone (black smith, metallurgy master,.. someone else :) ) could answer my question: Does the autoclave temperature 121oC (cca 250f) can damage the blades' steel/tempering?
If you are a microbiologist, maybe you should let us know how long is looooooong? and WTF is hbv?Quote:
Originally Posted by miha
121c doesn't even melt led, so it ain't gonna damage a blade.
Hello Grazor, the CDC link will have some information for you - CDC DVH - Hepatitis B FAQs for the Public hbv = hepatitis b.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grazor
This well respected American organisation says 7 days for the hepatitis b virus.
Hope that helps
thanks for the answers
hbv (hepatitis b virus)
how long: long as 100s of years (if we are talking bacterial spores), but in real life situations... if a razor is used than it was in contact with blood, there is a chance microorganisms survived and razor will get in contact with your blood as well, I don't really care if eg CDC states that it is (statistically) less common that a pathogen will transmit with razors (and they are probably thinking of disposable razors, and they are stating HCV, shich is one of many), I still wouldn't want to be that 1% that got infected, period :D.
If treating a razor with 121oC for 15-20 mins (in the presence of steam) does not leave any damage on the hardness of the blade than I would certainly use autoclaving since it is fairly simple and available if needed.
PS. Disclaimer (Damo's reminded me to put one here myself) - These are my personal opinions and should be understood as such.
edit: I am a bit confused since on one side autoclaving temperatures shouldn't do any damage to the hardness, but on the other hand people keep cooling the blade in water when buffing ?? Can anyone clarify?
Thanks, i have heard of resistant Hepatitis, but didn't know it could survive that long outside the body. It is good to be aware of such things.
@miha, can you confirm that pure alcohol kills all known viruses and pathogens?
@Grazor: no
bugger, i will have to up my dose to 200%, this should be common knowledge, might help to lower the price of razors on e-bay.
Anything lower than 200 degrees Celsius won't hurt the tempering in your blade...
Above that you will start to "soften" it.
I received you PM but figured I would answer here
First lets try and explain this
Quote:
Originally Posted by miha
When buffing it is NOT the sustained heat that damages the edge, it is a heat spike that takes the edge to red hot in an instant from improper buffing.. Dipping the razor is to re-start the blade at a base temp each time... If you approach buffing with fear and trepidation then you have few issues :)
Autoclaving a razor is pretty much a waste of time, the dirtiest part of most Vintage razors are the scales which you can't use heat on :( also cleaning the steel with abrasives takes off at least the top layer of steel so again the Autoclave is a waste of time..
I use Lucasol myself for a sterilizer, it is designed specifically for surfaces
This is also exactly why I started Restoring razors so long ago,, I do NOT like putting Dirty Rusty crap on my Hollywood face give me clean shiny steel and scales that are either new or have been cleaned in and out...
hey guys,
thanks for your replies. Let me try to continue discussion..
@gssixgun: I wasn't sure you are going to read this so I wrote you a PM, and I totally agree that it's better if you answer here :)
as I wrote in posts above I was thinking about a razor, and I can't agree that autoclaving is useless when comparing to ANY disinfectant, again I only had blades in mind (I usually try to make new scales). I completely agree using an autoclave on scales would end up in (to say the least) abstract scales :D .. and yes ANY Hollywood face should be treated with extreme respect and care :D !!!
Buffing,.. I wish,.. hand buffing is what I have, and I do it without fear :D :D , but if I had one, I don't really understand why shouldn't one have respect eg fear to it, especially as a beginner .. I do not understand exactly the expression "heat spike", does this mean that the outer surface of a buffing wheel generates more heat and if you don't press the blade hard enough you actually collect/transfer more heat to the blade?
again thanks for the help/discussion
Quote:
Originally Posted by miha
In this thread you will find more info about Straight Razor Restoration including using all types of buffers and the ins and outs of using them then anywhere else...
http://straightrazorpalace.com/works...wers-here.html
Short answer = Improper Buffing is when you either destroy the temper, or eat the steel, once you get your hands, and that sharp as hell razor, close to that spinning wheel everything that we warn you about will make perfect sense..
Heat Spike = On Hollow Grind blades it takes about 1 second of improper buffing to heat the very edge to red hot and it will destroy the temper... :(
ps: Every 6 months or so a newb asks the same questions about Straight Razor Sterilization and the exact same discussion ensues, my standard advice since the discussion always devolves into Reductio ad absurdum with more and more super germs and super sterilization techniques is "Do what makes you feel comfortable :)
Then take your super clean razor and dip it in the sink of hot tap water after you strop it on leather, that your wife finished brushing her teeth in 20 minutes ago use a Brush and Soap that have been sitting in the Bathroom (Google bathroom germs) and tell me how clean the steel is :rofl2:
Putting the blades in an autoclave doesn't remove any of the tarnish, gunk, etc. whereas buffing does, it also depending on the grit you're using will remove a minute amount of metal and essentially getting past any point where you would need to sterilize.
The heat spike in buffing comes if you're not paying attention as you go along. When running a blade across the buffers I always keep a pot of cool water with me and as soon as I feel any heat building up on the blade I put it in the water and let it cool before starting again. If you don't pay attention you'll get too hot and change the temper of the blade..not a good thing :(
@gssixgun: I sense some irony there,.. I guess it can be a bit frustrating having to repeat your oppinions over and over again, but I think that neglecting the health hazard can end up pretty sadly, it wasn't my intention to bother you or making you repeat things, thanks for the links, I read most of them, but since I haven't found adequate answer regarding sterilizing blades I decided to make a post.
Regarding the presence of microbes (eg after someone brushes their teeth, btw I don't dip it in the sink, I put it under running tap water), sterility, microbes stability, mechanisms, microbial genetics, biochemistry etc,... I do have a liiiittle clue about it since I do usually repeat/explain these stuff to students over and over (and over :D )
"Do what makes you feel comfortable"--- I completely agree :)
@Catrentshaving&gssixgun: thanks fr the explanation on buffing and heat
As long we don't sterilize our skin I don't think it matters much... some nasty flesh eating things are all around you.
On the other hand I feel it is nice to start fresh without someone elses dirt on my razors.
Small small animals that you can't see and they can kill you?
Fool the other one!
Just using the one word "Sterilization" plugged into the search box aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by miha
About 139 results (0.13 seconds) In which you can read almost this exact dialogue in many of them
It is not that I mind answering, Feel free to ask any question that you want that is what SRP is about
It is that this was your response
Quote:
Originally Posted by miha
:thinking:
The bottom line is that it's safe to autoclave the blade but not most scales.
I am very comfortable using barbicide as a disinfectant.
thanks for all the info, got my answer :)!
I use barbicide, have the jar and everything, when I decide to disinfect a razor, I submerge in the proper mixture for a minimun ten minutes, no longer than 20 minutes, and rest the blade in such a way that the scales themselves aren't immersed - don't want to turn them blue.Quote:
Originally Posted by HNSB
Barbicide specs:
Proven effective against HIV-1, Hepatitis B, Hepatitis C, Staphylococcus (including MRSA), Pseudomonas, Salmonella, Clostridium Difficile (C.Diff), Vancomycin Resistant Enterococcus (VRE), Herpes, Influenza (including H1N1), “Athletes Foot” (TineaPedis)
Complies with OSHA’s blood borne pathogens standard
U.S. EPA-registered hospital-grade, broad-spectrum disinfectant
Safe for non-porous surfaces including tanning beds, metals, stainless steel, plastics, combs, brushes, rollers and shears
Concentrate—Simple to mix, without taking up precious shelf space!
Anti-rust formulation protects your expensive shears
Will not stain skin or surfaces
I've read that some have experienced stained scales with the stuff, so I don't take any chances by immersing the scales - not that I have anything against the colour blue...