First time ATG .......first real cut

Hello everyone. I'd like to begin by thanking you all for making such a valuable store of information available to newbies like me. It's helped a lot.

I've been using a straight razor for about 10 days now. I've got progressively more confident, and better as well. I usually do 1 x WTG and 1 x XTG passes, which doesn't get me a really close shave, so I follow that my using a DE razor ATG, at which point I have a DFS or even a BBS sometimes (that's not a priority for me).

My hair is thick enough that even using only a DE, I have to do at least 1 x WTG, XTG, ATG to get a DFS. I'll usually have to do touch-ups at the end of that. The area of thickest growth is on the sides of my chin (unsurprisingly), and this takes the most passes to get smooth.

Anyway, having all the time in the world this morning, I decided to try an ATG pass with the straight. So I did the WTG and XTG passes, and followed that up with an ATG pass.

The throat area was fine; I just had to figure out the correct way to hold the razor. I also was able to go ATG easily in the cheek area. However, there was a lot of residual stubble in the chin area. The razor caught and cut me just under my lower lip. It wasn't bad, and it didn't hurt much, but it bled a lot. I'll have a scar for a few days. No biggie.

Anyway, I had a few thoughts about this shave. I'd like to have your input on these.

1) 1 x WTG and 1 x XTG is not cutting it for me (pun intended). I should probably try 2 x WTG and 1 x XTG before trying an ATG pass (I won't be doing ATG with the straight again until next weekend).
--> With my DE, I'll sometimes do 2 x XTG-- once down and to the right, and then down and to the left, after which it's close enough to try an ATG pass.
--> 2 x XTG at opposite angles doesn't seem like a good idea with a straight, for some reason.

2) Instead of complete multiple passes, I could focus on whittling away the growth in the thickest areas (around the chin).

3) The razors may not be sharp enough. Both my regular users pass the HHT, but maybe they could be better??

4) I get my best, most comfortable, shaves with a heavy DE razor. Maybe I need heavier straights as well. I have a 5/8 and a 6/8, both full hollow ground.

Incidentally, I shave after my shower. I've tried conditioning my face prior to shaving, which has no discernable effect. My lathering technique, etc., is good enough for a very comfy DE shave.

At this point, all I want is to have a minimal shadow at 5:00 pm. BBS is not a requirement.

So, what do you guys think of my plans? Any other suggestions?

It sounds like you're doing a great job experimenting and really thinking through your technique!

One thing I have found to help (in my limited experience- just 3 months now) with that smoothness is to have the extra (4th) pass happen in the XTG stage- across to the left, the across to the right, if you get my drift. This really reduces the stubble so that the ATG pass is close and clean.

Congratulations!! It's a great feeling of accomplishment when it all comes together. They will just keep getting better... :rock:

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Originally Posted by yohannrjm

The razors may not be sharp enough. Both my regular users pass the HHT, but maybe they could be better??
So, what do you guys think of my plans? Any other suggestions?

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In regards to "passing" the HHT - I use the analogy of letter grades in school considering that both grades "C" and "A" are passing. Maybe your HHT passed with a C? Had it passed with an "A" you likely would not have needed the ATG. There is a particular quality to a good HHT. After all, what is the difference between a hair hanging from your finger tips and a hair hanging from your face? Not exactly the same, but not much different either.

Something to consider.

You might find this article interesting: Hanging Hair Test, from trick to probing method - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

If you like a heavy DE, a heavier razor might be useful, too. Cutting yourself simply should not happen. Nicks can happen, but I only got cuts when I was trying to shave while still asleep, or used too much pressure (usually in combination with a dull edge). Might want to send out one of the razors for professional honing.

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Originally Posted by BeBerlin

You might find this article interesting: Hanging Hair Test, from trick to probing method - Straight Razor Place Wiki.

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Interesting, I hadn't read this HHT Wiki before reading this post.

I differ a bit with the "results" section, particularly #'s 2 through 4. In my experience the " Split" (HHT #2) comes just before HHT #5 ("Silent Slicer") so that I would switch #2 and #4.

Also, I've found that something equivalent to HHT #0 ("Shave") = a harsh, or no shave, and that stropping will improve the edge very quickly from HHT #0 to HHT #5.

HHT #5 will allow for a single pass BBS taking into account beard prep and shaving technique.

Agree that HHT is not a parlor trick.

The smart money seems to be on the razors not being shave ready. This is certainly a possibly.

I read the HHT articles and redid the test. One razor scores a HHT 2 or 3 and the other scores a HHT-4. This is, of course, assuming that I did the test properly. I did go as slowly as I could and also did the test about 2 cm from the end I was holding.

I'll probably send one of the razors to be honed and compare it to the one I retain when I get it back. This should answer any questions about the shave-readiness of the razors.

As to the cut. I am perfectly willing to admit that that may have been user error. I was paying too much attention to how I was holding the razor, and the angle on the ATG pass (I was trying to be shallower than usual), and that may have led to me being careless. I may also have been using too shallow an angle for the WTG and XTG passes. I'll try to rectify that.

Every face is different and your prep work is good. When I first started, I was going South and North to represent my first two passes. That left a lot of rough spots for my third+ passes. My technique evolved as I knew what sections need more attention and the proper technique.

Although my first pass is primarily South for primarily beard reduction, the second pass is all about XTG and ATG movements and how to tackle the tougher areas. From the jaw line up, I am BBS after the second pass. My neck area is what gets the third pass and sometimes I include the chin. My neck hairs grow in all different angles, so I use different Slat angles N/S to finish off this area.

Over time, I received feedback from the razor to further perfect my technique. My hairs are thick and if I strop the blade well after shaving, and give it 20 passes before a new shave, then its enough to get the job done well.

You may try stropping after your first two passes before your third and see if that helps. I am not big on the HHT as I think its over rated. I just sharpen up the straight with the strop and sometimes the pasted strop, and shave with it. How it shaves is the ultimate test.

Keep going, your on the right path!

Pabster

I would say rethink doing two XTG passes in different directions, but only for the chin where you have trouble.

Keening up the blade might help, but make sure you shave with the toe leading. That'll help cut easier.

If you like a heavier DE, I'll bet you like a heavier straight as well. Try a quarter hollow or a wedge.

X

+1 on Xman - try a wedge or near wedge - those blessed (or cursed) with a really heavy beard often find that a heavier grind works better, as it flexes and twists less as it meets the hair, unlike a lighter full- or half-hollow. Hope that helps!

So I've shaved a couple of times since my first post.
Things seem to have improved significantly. I realised that my angle of attack :) was too shallow around the chin, giving rise to the lack of cutting power. I also figured out that XTG is easier there than WTG.

- My stropping was too slow. So I sped it up, and the razors sheem sharper.

- 2 x WTG is not necessary over the whole surface of my face. As has been suggested, concentrating more on the problem areas gives me a closer shave.

At this point, the first WTG pass is about the same in efficacy as one WTG pass with a Tech.

To eliminate variables, what I'm going to do is:
1) Send one of the razors to be professionally honed.
-- It will certainly answer the question of whether razor sharpness is causing an issue.

2) Change more to a second XTG pass where needed. I think that a little more practice will improve the outcome of my shaves to the point where the clean-up with the DE is unnecessary. That's the current goal.

I appreciate everyone's input. Your comments have helped troubleshoot my straight razor experiments.

i can say be patient you will get there. it takes time to face get used to new blade and hands stop shaking. gl.

Sending a blade to a honemister is a good choice. Be aware of you angle at all times. Have someone watch you and mention when you angle gets out of tolerance. Also, don't use any pressure on your blade to your skin. Having CarrieM watch me and mention when my angle got too steep or shallow really helped a lot.

A sharp blade works wonders. If your shaves are now improving, perhaps it was sharp and your technique is improving. Either way, you are on the right track. I have one blade honed by Lynn and I sort of use it as my benchmark for sharpness. If another blade gets too dull and Lynn's blade does the trick in the same spot, then I know that blade needs a touch-up.

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Originally Posted by Joed

...Be aware of you angle at all times. Have someone watch you and mention when you angle gets out of tolerance. Also, don't use any pressure on your blade to your skin. Having CarrieM watch me and mention when my angle got too steep or shallow really helped a lot.

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Joe,

You and Carrie should be the spokes-couple for straight razor shaving.

Cheers,

Ogie

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Originally Posted by xman

I would say rethink doing two XTG passes in different directions, but only for the chin where you have trouble.

Keening up the blade might help, but make sure you shave with the toe leading. That'll help cut easier.

If you like a heavier DE, I'll bet you like a heavier straight as well. Try a quarter hollow or a wedge.

X

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+1 on the quarter-hollow grind.

-Chief

I'm not sure what direction XTG is for you on the chin, but for me I can get great results there using horizontal strokes aimed in towards the centre (cleft) of the chin. You need a few strokes because the blade is touching a rounded area not a flat, but if South-North strokes on the chin aren't working for any reason, horizontal ones will get the job done, just takes a bit more time.

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Originally Posted by Oglethorpe

Joe,
You and Carrie should be the spokes-couple for straight razor shaving.
Cheers,
Ogie

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Thanks Ogie. I don't know about a spokes couple though. A lot of great people on this site have helped us over the past year. We're just trying to help keep the knowledge flowing to those that ask. A special Thank You to all of you here on SRP that have helped us along. :mexwave:

Thanks for the tip about shaving around the chin. I figured that out myself over the last couple of days. I actually got a really good shave under the chin today. The only area with much stubble left after the 'straight' portion of my shave this morning was on the underside of the jawline. I think some skin stretching may take care of that.:)

As for getting another razor---I'm sure that will happen eventually. At the moment, I'm going to stick with what I have as razors are not cheap (unlike DE blades). When I have more experience, I'll go ahead and get a quarter hollow or a wedge.

I received a razor from a honemeister........shave ready. It was really sharp, but not appreciably sharper than the one I was using myself. It is likely that the razor I was using went through sharper and duller moments, depending on my stropping technique. A few laps on a barbers hone took care of the edge.

Anyway, shaving with the fresh razor (A 6/8 Torrey, 3/4 hollow ground....it sings while stropping!!) was good, but actually less comfortable than the Wade and Butcher I was using. The W&B is a 9/16 I think. It is also much stiffer, and I found that it dealt with my beard better than the Torrey.

It could also be that I am very used to using the W&B, and need more time with the Torrey to evaluate it. However, I have a full hollow ground Holler that is also shave ready that I also don't find comfortable.

Maybe the comments above suggesting the trial of a wedge are on the money, and my beard needs a heavier razor...more wedge-like.

Unfortunately, I won't be able to buy one for a while. However, that will give me time to evaluate the Torrey fairly.

On a positive note, my technique has been improving steadily. I've been able to get quite close without doing a bona-fide ATG pass. I found that I was using short strokes, like I would with a DE. When I started using longer strokes where possible, the shave immediately got more comfortable.

Shaves are getting closer. :)

Welcome Yohannrjm , and Congratulations !