WhenWhen Would I Need to Go Below 12K? Below 8K?

I have a number of shave-ready razors. Quite a few, actually, due to some good fortune in swapping some vintage fountain pens (which I collect) with a straight vet.

I have a Naniwa 12k, Crox paste, and a good leather strop.

So here are my questions:

Assuming I don't damage the razors or roll the edges during stropping, when -- if ever would I need to hone below 12k? Could I go a year or more without dipping below 12K?

Same goes for 8k. For these razors, assuming no damage / rolling: Would I ever need to go to 8K? Below 8K? How long could I expect to go before hitting the 8K or dipping below the 8K?

I am just trying to prioritize where I spend $ as bargains arise. Since I've decided to go with all Naniwa stones, the question is whether / when I buy the 8k, 5k, and 1k. I probably won't end up buying all at once.

I am just trying to assess where these hones fit in with maintaining my reserve of shave-ready razors. Perhaps they are really just suitable for honing stuff I acquire in relatively rough shape? E.g., stuff I find from antique stores, the Bay, and the like.

Thanks for the help.

Assuming no damage and you never buy a razor without a honemeister looking it over and honing it for you, there would be no need for anything less than an 8 k stone.

For stuff from the bay and antiques stores, you'll need a lot more than a 8K & 12K stone. THose are where you start considering 1K stones for rapid removal of old, fatigued steel, and establishing a brand new bevel.

For your current collection, like JMS states, 8K is probably all you'd need. The frequency would probably depend on how often the CrOx is used, and when the razor's bevel is seriously deteriorated from the V shape of a newly honed edge. If I recall correctly, the 8K is right around the point where sharpening & polishing transition.

I've been unofficially testing your very question for the last six months or so.

I honed a razor then which I "dialed in" to exactly the way I wanted it (what the final honing phase test shave proved to be a perfect balance of sharp and comfortable). It's been my daily shaver except for probably 10 shaves in which I've used other razors in my rotation. You could say five months of daily shaves (Saturdays off).

I've used nothing other than touch ups on chrome ox and pre and post shave stropping. The max number of passes it's needed on chrome ox on balsa to bring it back to the way it was? It's needed a more than a few, but no more than 100 passes. And usually 25 passes about once per week. This is the same balsa strop I have not "repasted" for almost two years now so maybe it's slower than normal.

I'm beginning to think that I could use the above method "indefinitely" and not need to actually bring this razor back to a stone or hone.

One of of those hundred passes on the chrome ox balsa paddle I felt was necessary because I wondered if the edge was getting "overhoned" after only getting attention on the chrome ox. I drew the edge with the weight of the blade only over the side corner (not the end grain) of the same balsa paddle several times and then did the 100 passes on the balsa. Beautiful shaves afterward. I bring this up, because even if the above method made for an edge that would eventually turn to a too thin broken burr, a few weight of the blade passes on the balsa followed by passes (spine leading of course) on the chrome ox balsa I believe would correct any issue.

That's my 2 cents answer for your question.

Chris L

Within your parameters you probably won't need lower than the 8K Naniwa too often. None the less, I think it would be wise to consider a 3K or 5K as well so that you can do a basic pyramid. The coarser stones are less expensive than the finer stones so having one shouldn't sprain the budget too badly. If you want bang for the buck I think 3/5K, 8K and 12K Naniwa plus your CrOx should cover anything you are likely to face, assuming that you are starting with keen edges.

It gets a bit more complicated and expensive once you start chasing the best finishing stones.

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Originally Posted by ChrisL

I'm beginning to think that I could use the above method "indefinitely" and not need to actually bring this razor back to a stone or hone.

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You're at least the second person that I've seen post something to that effect.

Every 4 or five months I take my blades back to 1 mircon diamond film,occasionally if it's very bad I'll bring to the Naniwa 8k. I don't finish my edges on a stone but on the .5 diamond 3m flim.

I use the CROX even after the .5 diamond to bring the razor into a more comfortable zone, then strop 100 laps on the leather, to bring into that light saber zone.

I think once you find what you want from your edges then it will be much easier to say if you will be bringing them back to an 8k or even a 12k.

I bring my back because I have a very coarse beard, and despite great prep shaving everyday takes a little bit off some of my blades.


good luck
D

A barber sharpening stone in addition to the pasted strops just may keep the straight blade sharp and performing well for years.

It would be great to hear from someone who has experience with this.

Pabster

Just another perspective, if you know how to hone a razor then the 12 and the chrom ox ought to do you just fine for touching up. The question is can a guy learn to hone a razor if his honing is that infrequent ? That is why my approach was to get a few pro honed razors to shave with and as a benchmark along with ebay specials to learn on.

I guess it depends on what you want to do. It took me awhile to develop a smooth even stroke. I don't know if I could've done it without a lot of practice because that isn't the way I went about it. I don't disagree with what anyone else has posted but I lean toward what Bill S said about getting the set of Naniwas.

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Originally Posted by Pabster

A barber sharpening stone in addition to the pasted strops just may keep the straight blade sharp and performing well for years.

It would be great to hear from someone who has experience with this.

Pabster

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I don't know about years, but all I like to use on mine is a Swaty every once in a while (say 4-6 months, depending on the razor). Some people hate the Swaty, but I like it more than the pasted paddle. I will say that quality stropping on a quality strop has done more for my razor's edge health than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Bill S

Within your parameters you probably won't need lower than the 8K Naniwa too often. None the less, I think it would be wise to consider a 3K or 5K as well so that you can do a basic pyramid. The coarser stones are less expensive than the finer stones so having one shouldn't sprain the budget too badly. If you want bang for the buck I think 3/5K, 8K and 12K Naniwa plus your CrOx should cover anything you are likely to face, assuming that you are starting with keen edges.

It gets a bit more complicated and expensive once you start chasing the best finishing stones.

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I took your advice. I ended up buying a 1k, 5k, and 8k from SRD. I have a couple of antique store bargains (one a Shure Edge, another a Wester Bros. Anchor Brand) that I am using to learn how to hone and restore. (I've already learned the whole sanding / Dremel process). So I will use the bargains for learning the honing skills, and come touch up time on my shave ready stuff, I should be ready to go.

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Originally Posted by Pabster

A barber sharpening stone in addition to the pasted strops just may keep the straight blade sharp and performing well for years.

It would be great to hear from someone who has experience with this.

Pabster

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Again, I can't speak to "years" but I've been very happy with the cheap 2-sided barber hone I picked up on ebay for $20-$30.

The fine side is probably in the 12k neighborhood like most barber hones. I can't say for sure about the coarse side, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's somewhere around 8-10k.

I've found that I can do a few passes (2-3, never more than 5) on the course side, and then 5 on the finishing side, and my henckels feels just as perfect as when gugi mailed it to me, even if I've messed up stropping and half way rolled the edge.

I suspect that as long as the edge never get's chipped, and is used often enough that it doesn't get oxidized, you probably could keep a razor gong for ever.

I have a lot of hones, but I have a set of 7 razors in my gym locker that have been maintained with nothing but a barber hone for four years. I have deliberately avoided using any of my fancy doodad 20th/21st century picked it up on ebay bought it on a website barber wouldn't know what the hell it is everybody on SRPs gotta have one whadya mean it's gotta be lapped every time you paid how much for it hones.

If you start with a sharp razor, a barber hone is all you need, ever.

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Originally Posted by Utopian

I have deliberately avoided using any of my fancy doodad 20th/21st century picked it up on ebay bought it on a website barber wouldn't know what the hell it is everybody on SRPs gotta have one whadya mean it's gotta be lapped every time you paid how much for it hones.

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So priceless.

:roflmao

LOL.

Well, looks like you bought the lower grit hones. Honestly though, its probably cheaper and less frustrating to send the blade to a honing machine (honemeister). You really don't need anything other than a finishing stone to keep any razor in perfect shape. Once my razors are honed, I never drop below 12k.

As for time, it depends on how sharp you want your razor to be and how good your maintenance is. I suppose its possible to go a full year without needing to touch up on a 12k. But I'd touch it up every time you feel a difference in the shave.

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Originally Posted by Leighton

But I'd touch it up every time you feel a difference in the shave.

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Agreed. The easiest way to keep a razor sharp is to minimally touch it up on the hone as soon as you feel any reduction in the quality of the shave.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pabster

A barber sharpening stone in addition to the pasted strops just may keep the straight blade sharp and performing well for years.

It would be great to hear from someone who has experience with this.

Pabster

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I bought a Dovo SS #41, a Swaty "three-line" barber hone and an Illinois 814 strop in 1980 and that's all I used for 28 years, until I landed on SRP. BTW, I got great shaves.

If you start with a razor with a keen edge, you will never need anything else. If you start restoring old razors, that's another story entirely.